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02/23/2015, 01:22 AM | #1 |
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Some serious sump help! (PICS)
Hello all,
I have recently put together my first DIY sump for my 55 gallon. I had everything prepped a few years ago and now I have finally had the time to put this thing into action! Do not judge on the light in the pic as I am only using it for cycling. I also included pics of my plumbing to better explain my system. I had my tank drilled and my sump (a 10 gallon due to size limitations) baffled at the LFS a few years ago as well. I have plumbed everything including a 1-1/2" intake and a 3/4" return. There are no leaks however I am having a huge amount of water loss probably due to evaporation and a ton of micro bubbles! I have posted some photos to show my set up. I am working with a Rio1700 submersible pump and no bubble trap in my sump. I am concerned about the evaporation occurring so rapidly in the return section of my pump as I often leave for days at a time on work trips. I am deathly afraid of ruining the pump by having it run too dry. Any and all advice on micro bubble solutions as they look terrible in the DT! Advice on how to ATO or fix the water loss in the return section would be greatly appreciated! The water level drops so fast! Thank you, Jake |
02/23/2015, 01:33 AM | #2 |
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Can you afford to put more water in your sump, raise the level in the return section a little..... ATO is the only other way and are easily implemented, even just a gravity feed with float switches will do. I cannot stand filling my tank up every day, so after my first tank almost 10 years ago, i have used ato ever since. i now go a week in the winter and sometimes 10 days in the summer without having to lift a finger, aside from filter socks and skimmer cup. It is worth it's weight in gold.
as for the micro bubbles.....if you empty the sump, you could add another baffle in front of the only baffle separating the return chamber, which would allow the bubbles to rise to the surface and not enter your display......but maybe someone else has a better idea.... i would even go so far as to suggest putting a diffuser like a black carbon foam pad in there which the water must pass through, but this is then going to have to be cleaned regularly or it will become a nitrate factory; but it would POSSIBLY be a simple solution.
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R54 Current Tank Info: 36 x 36 x 25 Cube, mixed reef, A360WE x 3, A350N x 1, 40GB sump, RDSB, Remote LR Cryptic, 2 WP-40's, ummm.... |
02/23/2015, 01:38 AM | #3 |
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You could turn the sump around... Make the return the larger section and the drain the small one. That and an ato would make it much more user friendly.
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02/23/2015, 01:39 AM | #4 | |
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The bubbles are from your drain line. There is only one cure for that: reduce the flow rate till they go away. Putting in more junk to deal with it creates other problems. Your sump is just way too small, but such is life with a 55, which is why they are rather poor marine tanks. A bubble trap may help, but you need to work on the drain system, angle it down, and lower the flow rate to < 350gph. That is counter productive as the flow should be up at 550gph at least, so it is time for a siphon system, which will eliminate the bubbles altogether. You said you had the tank drilled, which means it is not tempered? Converting to a siphon will require some more holes.
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"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." (oft attributed to Einstein; most likely paraphrasing by Roger Sessions; compactly articulates the principle of Occam's Razor) Current Tank Info: 325 6' wide Reef Last edited by uncleof6; 02/23/2015 at 01:44 AM. |
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02/23/2015, 08:15 AM | #5 |
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I may be wrong, but is there salt creep around the bulkhead on the back of the 55? Could be a slow leak. I would agree that adding one more baffle in front of the first one would help. Water would go under it and bubbles would not (as much).
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02/23/2015, 09:19 AM | #6 |
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Yeah, a 10 gal on a 55 is going to be tricky. What's the water level in your sump with the system shutdown? If you have some extra capacity when shutdown, then raise the level in the return section, which will help with the micro bubbles. I suspect that you're getting bubbles from both the return and the water cascading over the singe baffle next to the pump's inlet. Can you face the pump inlet towards the outside of the sump?
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02/23/2015, 12:00 PM | #7 | |
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02/23/2015, 01:21 PM | #8 | |
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02/23/2015, 01:31 PM | #9 | |
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02/23/2015, 01:42 PM | #10 | |
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02/23/2015, 01:44 PM | #11 | |
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02/23/2015, 01:49 PM | #12 | |
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02/23/2015, 01:51 PM | #13 | |
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02/23/2015, 01:55 PM | #14 |
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THANK YOU ALL FOR THE HELP! I really appreciate getting all of these suggestions even though I am a newer member. You have all been super helpful.
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02/23/2015, 02:06 PM | #15 |
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Good deal. I mentioned it because I had a similar leak on a bulkhead on my new frag tank set up. With a slow enough leak, all you see is the salt creep.
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02/23/2015, 02:12 PM | #16 |
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02/23/2015, 03:32 PM | #17 | |
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The sock isn't all that necessary, but i do like having the ability to use one on occasion. |
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02/23/2015, 04:02 PM | #18 | |
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02/23/2015, 04:03 PM | #19 |
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If I were to add a bubble trap while my sump is out, how could I do this while only adding one more baffle? Doesn't a trap usually consist of 3?
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02/23/2015, 04:41 PM | #20 |
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Well, I noticed it last night, so I'm not sure it's fixed yet. I just tightened the bulkhead nut a quarter turn. I had only had it barely hand tight, so now it's a little past hand tight. These light duty bulkheads break pretty easily.
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02/23/2015, 06:36 PM | #21 | |
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Yes you need enough volume in the return section to allow for a few days evaporation in case your ATO fails when you are not around. Since many hobby implementations are superfluous, rather than redundant, an ato failure could lead to pump failure, if the pump runs dry. Whatever it takes to accomplish that, and in small sumps, it usually means eliminating the "fuge." The bubbles (which appear to me to be universally throughout the sump) are coming from the drain line. Obviously the sock is of little use, and most higher end systems eliminate them. Dealing with the bubbles starts with the drain line, not any where else: deal with the source. It is much like the common cold. There are so many home remedies, lots of talk, and a great deal of money to be made, concerning treating the symptoms. Yet no one bothers to find a cure for the disease... The two things that will prevent bubbles from the drain line, with open channels, (Durso, Stockman, Gurgle Busters,) DIY PVC overflows, and just about anything that is commercially produced, is to increase the pipe size, and reduce the flow rate. Submerging the end of the drain line in the sump, can also help eliminate bubbles, by eliminating the splashing of turbulent water flow in the sump. Using foam blocks is not a logical thing to do. It adds to the maintenance of the system for one, and two: it contributes to the "nitrate problems" because it is mechanical filtration. A carbon block, because it will mechanically filter the water as well, will need to be changed more often that one would like. Socks should be changed out every day, foam blacks are the same. Bubble traps can help. But if you have a very dense bubble problem, the spacing needs to be rather wide, to slow the water velocity through the trap. In small sumps, this eats up room. It is better to stop them at the source, saving bubble traps for "occasional bubbles." Keeping water fall heights from section to section < = 1", will also reduce bubbles in the sump. Skimmers are another issue for bubbles. Generally however, if the skimmer is adjusted per instructions, rather than anecdote, bubbles are not a problem. Some skimmers are just junk and nothing seems to work out with them. Other sources of bubbles: Air leaks in the plumbing. It may not leak water, but it will suck in air. Pump cavitation: which is not generally a problem with submersible pumps. But given the wide variety of "ways of doing things," I have seen it happen, fill the DT with bubbles, and destroy pumps. Sump size: sumps should be short and wide, not tall and narrow. It is the same with DTs.
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"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." (oft attributed to Einstein; most likely paraphrasing by Roger Sessions; compactly articulates the principle of Occam's Razor) Current Tank Info: 325 6' wide Reef |
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02/24/2015, 02:21 PM | #22 |
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A quick update! Last night I switched the pump section around and that greatly helped reduce the micro bubbles and evaporation issue. Funny how that was such a simple fix! Thank you guys.
I did however cause both of my bulkheads to start leaking. This messed up the paint on the back, but after a simple twist I think we are water-tight. I'm working with an older aquarium that I have water tested but I have a huge fear that another random leak will pop up. I read about a siphon occurring in the drain portion of the system that could potentially clog the water flow. Does anyone know how common this is? I currently don't have a "basket" on the bulkhead yet and have noticed that the water is burping a bit before falling through. Is this normal? |
02/24/2015, 04:15 PM | #23 |
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Hi OP, just wanted to post that a 10 gallon sump can work with baffles (due to previous skimmer making lots of micro-bubbles). The skimmer now is a SWC 120 which makes practically no bubbles. This is used on a 28 gallon bow-front and a bean animal overflow. Return pump is a Jebao DC3000. I am using a gravity fed ATO, you can probably make out the float valve in the middle section, where the light is mounted to. I use a 5 gallon jug of RODI for the ATO which is good for about 4 days worth of evaporation, as the tank is also open-top.
With return pump off, the sump fills up to below the trim, thanks to a siphon break on the return lines. |
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55 gallon, diy, reef, sump |
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