Bloated SH

sloshesv · 05/25/2007, 08:03 AM

I have 2 female kudas aboout a year and a half old. One has not eaten for 5 days now, and in the last 2 days her belly has taken on a bloated look. Her sister looks fine and eats normally. I don't have the water paramters or pics right now, but I do a LOT of water changes. I also don't have a hospital tank. Any ideas? TIA

pledosophy · 05/25/2007, 07:18 PM

Is she having trouble swimming? Floating to the top, not going where she intends?

5 days is normally the amount of time when one would consider tube feeding.

sloshesv · 05/29/2007, 08:54 AM

She's swimming fine. I'm going to have to research tube feeding, I'm totally unfamiliar with that. BTW, her sister still shows no signs of any problems.

ann83 · 05/29/2007, 09:43 AM

Okay, if she is still behaving okay after 9 days of not eating, I am beginnning to suspect she has another source of food. Still definately research tube feeding, as you are about 5 days overdue. There are specific instructions on tube feeding on seahorse.org, either in the library or pinned in one of the forums. Can you get us a picture and your water parameters? Pic especially. Also, how long have you had them?

ann83 · 05/29/2007, 09:45 AM

Oh, have you tried live foods? Like small ghost shrimp or live mysis? I would try that first before you attempt tube feeding. Here are the instructions http://www.seahorse.org/library/articles/TubeFeed.pdf

sloshesv · 05/29/2007, 01:25 PM

I've had them for 14 months, so I'm guessing they're around a year and a half old. I've tried ghost shrimp, which they usually get once a week and love, but she's not interested. I'll take a picture tonight. I also check the water, but I keep their tank in tip top shape. It's hard to imagine tube feeding a SH.

ann83 · 05/29/2007, 02:18 PM

The reason you have to resort to tube feeding is because seahorses have a simple digestive system and they cannot go very long without food or their digestive system shuts down. At that point, even if they do resume eating, they cannot properly digest the food and they starve anyway. 4 days without eating is usually the point when people being tube feeding.

sloshesv · 05/30/2007, 07:59 AM

Ay yi yi! I love this seahorse, so I'm not going to tube feed her. She's still alive, I'm having trouble downloading the pic.

ann83 · 05/30/2007, 09:14 AM

Wait, what? You love it so you aren't going to tube feed it? Did I explain wrong? If you do NOT tube feed, and she goes without eating too long, her digestive system will shut down, and she won't be able to survive even if she does begin eating again. If you DO tube feed, you keep the digestive system going, and she has the chance to live.

sloshesv · 05/30/2007, 09:35 AM

It sounds like her digestive system has already shut down. I would feel like I'm torturing her rather than saving her life. She's still interacting with her sister. I don't want her last days to be filled with this trauma.

ann83 · 05/30/2007, 11:09 AM

Okay, can you get us a picture or let us know about any other symptoms? You are putting the other seahorse at risk by leaving them together, so maybe we can at least diagnose what the problem is so that the other one has a chance. Also, what are your tank parameters (temp, pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate)?

sloshesv · 05/30/2007, 11:22 AM

I have time tonight, I'll get the info. BTW, thank you very much, this has been painful.

sloshesv · 05/30/2007, 03:12 PM

I just got the call from home. Sweets dreams, Galaxy. Thanks again for your help.

sloshesv · 05/31/2007, 06:32 AM

Okay, don't trust your nine year old when it comes to determining what's dead and what's not. The SH in question was alive and in the exact same condition when I got home. She's still swimming fine. I fed some beautiful little salty ghost shrimp last night but she wasn't interested. her sister still shows no symptoms and chowed down on the shrimp. Nitrates and nitrites were nothing, I don't have an ammonia tester. Ph 7.7-7.9, the tank goes from 72.2 degrees to 74.7. Man, I've been through the emotional wringer here.

sloshesv · 05/31/2007, 06:37 AM

Oh yeah, the home computer is f'ed up, so I can load any pics.

JennyL · 05/31/2007, 09:01 AM

Your water perams are way off. You need to start slowly bringing your PH up to above 8.0, preferably 8.2. A low PH will have bad affects on your horses and can deffinately affect appetite, among other things.

You really must also get an ammonia test immediately. When things go wrong in a tank, the very first thing to do is test all water perams. These results will tell you a lot and can lead you in determining what the problem is .

The main tests that should be done at least weekly are: Ammonia,PH,nitrite,nitrate,sg. Tank temps should be monitored all the time and temps should be kept as stable as possible.

ann83 · 05/31/2007, 09:29 AM

Glad to hear she's still alive.
I agree with Jenny. I'd be willing to bet that the pH is the culprit. Low pH has been known to cause seahorses to stop eating. It is also something that affects each individual differently, which would explain why you are only seeing symptoms in one horse at the moment (although if it isn't fixed, expect to see the other SH stop eating too). Get a marine buffer to bring up the pH (dissolve before you add to the aquarium), and begin adding some to your topoff water and new saltwater. I like Seachem's Marine Buffer.
I would also like to see the ammonia reading. Especially with all of these other problems, and the fact that ammonia readings can affect pH (I think). So, while you're out getting the buffer, pick up a saltwater ammonia test kit (preferably liquid). The presence of ammonia can make things much worse.
Also, can you check your specific gravity/salinity? With the pH being low, the sg could be another issue.
Your temperature looks good. While they are stressed, it'd be better to keep the temp around 72 and not let it rise above 74. Even so, its good to hear you are keeping the temp down.

sloshesv · 05/31/2007, 10:53 AM

Way off? I think that comment is way off. I add buffer to my SH tank and my reef tank, but can never seem to get it over 8. Yet my corals, fish and inverts seem to thrive. From reading lots of threads on the main forum, I'm not concerned with that. I DO monitor the temp at all times. The extremely expensive cooler I use has some variation before it kicks in. I use the temp settings I was told by seahorsesource for kudas. I'll get an ammonia test kit just so I don't have that hanging over my head, but again I do lots of water changes and keep it pristine. And again, this SH had been perfectly healthy for over a year under the exact same conditions and her tankmate appears perfectly healthy. I don't think this has anything at all to do with water and/or tank conditions, but I do appreciate your input( except for the "way off" comment).

JennyL · 05/31/2007, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sloshesv
Way off? I think that comment is way off. I add buffer to my SH tank and my reef tank, but can never seem to get it over 8. Yet my corals, fish and inverts seem to thrive. From reading lots of threads on the main forum, I'm not concerned with that. I DO monitor the temp at all times. The extremely expensive cooler I use has some variation before it kicks in. I use the temp settings I was told by seahorsesource for kudas. I'll get an ammonia test kit just so I don't have that hanging over my head, but again I do lots of water changes and keep it pristine. And again, this SH had been perfectly healthy for over a year under the exact same conditions and her tankmate appears perfectly healthy. I don't think this has anything at all to do with water and/or tank conditions, but I do appreciate your input( except for the "way off" comment).

Well, please excuse me. I was under the impression you were asking for help.
I will bow out of your thread and not try to help you anymore.

ann83 · 05/31/2007, 11:06 AM

I agree that your temps are good. I was just suggesting keeping it a bit lower when they are stressed to reduce the chance of disease. Its pretty common to recommend slightly lower temps in stress situations.
I really do believe though that the pH could be an issue. A LOT of people have had their SH stop eating with a low pH. It can't hurt to try to raise it. Even rasing .1 could make a big difference in her appetite and it won't hurt to try. If you can get it up to 8.0, that is wonderful. Like I said, pH affects every SH differently, and can take a while to have an affect, so that could be why the other SH still has an appetite. Overall though, I think conditions sound good. I didn't mean to make it sound like you were poorly maintaining your tank. Get those ammonia readings though, just in case. You could have a dead snail or some dead bristle worms in the rocks or something.

ann83 · 05/31/2007, 11:10 AM

Also, and I should have asked from the get go, have you had an increase in your copepod population recently? Is she spending a lot of time hunting in the live rock?

sloshesv · 05/31/2007, 11:30 AM

It looks like she's hunting in the LR , but I haven't noticed any increase in pods or heard her snick. She's always loved the ghost shrimp, so I still don't think she's eating. I don't know if she's stressed, but I'm beat up. I'll stop at the LFS and get a ammonia test kit on the way home.

NONNA58 · 06/02/2007, 09:11 AM

how is your horse?

sloshesv · 06/04/2007, 06:38 AM

Still alive, so she has to be eating something, right? Other than not eating the mysis or ghost shrimp she's acting perfectly normal. Weird

sloshesv · 06/04/2007, 01:24 PM

She's really BIG today. I swear to God I'm going to get you people a pic soon.

05/25/2007, 08:03 AM	#1
sloshesv Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: ft myers, fl Posts: 723	Bloated SH I have 2 female kudas aboout a year and a half old. One has not eaten for 5 days now, and in the last 2 days her belly has taken on a bloated look. Her sister looks fine and eats normally. I don't have the water paramters or pics right now, but I do a LOT of water changes. I also don't have a hospital tank. Any ideas? TIA __________________ It's just sloshesv, your Honor Current Tank Info: 55 gallon reef, 20 gal seahorse and leaf fish

05/25/2007, 07:18 PM	#2
pledosophy Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Beaverton Posts: 5,290	Is she having trouble swimming? Floating to the top, not going where she intends? 5 days is normally the amount of time when one would consider tube feeding. __________________ 120g mixed reef 90g QT

05/29/2007, 08:54 AM	#3
sloshesv Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: ft myers, fl Posts: 723	She's swimming fine. I'm going to have to research tube feeding, I'm totally unfamiliar with that. BTW, her sister still shows no signs of any problems. __________________ It's just sloshesv, your Honor Current Tank Info: 55 gallon reef, 20 gal seahorse and leaf fish

05/29/2007, 01:25 PM	#6
sloshesv Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: ft myers, fl Posts: 723	I've had them for 14 months, so I'm guessing they're around a year and a half old. I've tried ghost shrimp, which they usually get once a week and love, but she's not interested. I'll take a picture tonight. I also check the water, but I keep their tank in tip top shape. It's hard to imagine tube feeding a SH. __________________ It's just sloshesv, your Honor Current Tank Info: 55 gallon reef, 20 gal seahorse and leaf fish

05/30/2007, 07:59 AM	#8
sloshesv Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: ft myers, fl Posts: 723	Ay yi yi! I love this seahorse, so I'm not going to tube feed her. She's still alive, I'm having trouble downloading the pic. __________________ It's just sloshesv, your Honor Current Tank Info: 55 gallon reef, 20 gal seahorse and leaf fish

05/29/2007, 09:43 AM	#4
ann83 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: MO Posts: 937	Okay, if she is still behaving okay after 9 days of not eating, I am beginnning to suspect she has another source of food. Still definately research tube feeding, as you are about 5 days overdue. There are specific instructions on tube feeding on seahorse.org, either in the library or pinned in one of the forums. Can you get us a picture and your water parameters? Pic especially. Also, how long have you had them?

05/29/2007, 09:45 AM	#5
ann83 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: MO Posts: 937	Oh, have you tried live foods? Like small ghost shrimp or live mysis? I would try that first before you attempt tube feeding. Here are the instructions http://www.seahorse.org/library/articles/TubeFeed.pdf

05/29/2007, 02:18 PM	#7
ann83 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: MO Posts: 937	The reason you have to resort to tube feeding is because seahorses have a simple digestive system and they cannot go very long without food or their digestive system shuts down. At that point, even if they do resume eating, they cannot properly digest the food and they starve anyway. 4 days without eating is usually the point when people being tube feeding.

05/30/2007, 09:14 AM	#9
ann83 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: MO Posts: 937	Wait, what? You love it so you aren't going to tube feed it? Did I explain wrong? If you do NOT tube feed, and she goes without eating too long, her digestive system will shut down, and she won't be able to survive even if she does begin eating again. If you DO tube feed, you keep the digestive system going, and she has the chance to live.

05/30/2007, 09:35 AM	#10
sloshesv Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: ft myers, fl Posts: 723	It sounds like her digestive system has already shut down. I would feel like I'm torturing her rather than saving her life. She's still interacting with her sister. I don't want her last days to be filled with this trauma. __________________ It's just sloshesv, your Honor Current Tank Info: 55 gallon reef, 20 gal seahorse and leaf fish

05/30/2007, 11:09 AM	#11
ann83 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: MO Posts: 937	Okay, can you get us a picture or let us know about any other symptoms? You are putting the other seahorse at risk by leaving them together, so maybe we can at least diagnose what the problem is so that the other one has a chance. Also, what are your tank parameters (temp, pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate)?

05/30/2007, 11:22 AM	#12
sloshesv Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: ft myers, fl Posts: 723	I have time tonight, I'll get the info. BTW, thank you very much, this has been painful. __________________ It's just sloshesv, your Honor Current Tank Info: 55 gallon reef, 20 gal seahorse and leaf fish

05/30/2007, 03:12 PM	#13
sloshesv Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: ft myers, fl Posts: 723	I just got the call from home. Sweets dreams, Galaxy. Thanks again for your help. __________________ It's just sloshesv, your Honor Current Tank Info: 55 gallon reef, 20 gal seahorse and leaf fish

05/31/2007, 06:32 AM	#14
sloshesv Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: ft myers, fl Posts: 723	Okay, don't trust your nine year old when it comes to determining what's dead and what's not. The SH in question was alive and in the exact same condition when I got home. She's still swimming fine. I fed some beautiful little salty ghost shrimp last night but she wasn't interested. her sister still shows no symptoms and chowed down on the shrimp. Nitrates and nitrites were nothing, I don't have an ammonia tester. Ph 7.7-7.9, the tank goes from 72.2 degrees to 74.7. Man, I've been through the emotional wringer here. __________________ It's just sloshesv, your Honor Current Tank Info: 55 gallon reef, 20 gal seahorse and leaf fish

05/31/2007, 06:37 AM	#15
sloshesv Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: ft myers, fl Posts: 723	Oh yeah, the home computer is f'ed up, so I can load any pics. __________________ It's just sloshesv, your Honor Current Tank Info: 55 gallon reef, 20 gal seahorse and leaf fish

05/31/2007, 09:01 AM	#16
JennyL Registered Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 406	Your water perams are way off. You need to start slowly bringing your PH up to above 8.0, preferably 8.2. A low PH will have bad affects on your horses and can deffinately affect appetite, among other things. You really must also get an ammonia test immediately. When things go wrong in a tank, the very first thing to do is test all water perams. These results will tell you a lot and can lead you in determining what the problem is . The main tests that should be done at least weekly are: Ammonia,PH,nitrite,nitrate,sg. Tank temps should be monitored all the time and temps should be kept as stable as possible.

05/31/2007, 09:29 AM	#17
ann83 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: MO Posts: 937	Glad to hear she's still alive. I agree with Jenny. I'd be willing to bet that the pH is the culprit. Low pH has been known to cause seahorses to stop eating. It is also something that affects each individual differently, which would explain why you are only seeing symptoms in one horse at the moment (although if it isn't fixed, expect to see the other SH stop eating too). Get a marine buffer to bring up the pH (dissolve before you add to the aquarium), and begin adding some to your topoff water and new saltwater. I like Seachem's Marine Buffer. I would also like to see the ammonia reading. Especially with all of these other problems, and the fact that ammonia readings can affect pH (I think). So, while you're out getting the buffer, pick up a saltwater ammonia test kit (preferably liquid). The presence of ammonia can make things much worse. Also, can you check your specific gravity/salinity? With the pH being low, the sg could be another issue. Your temperature looks good. While they are stressed, it'd be better to keep the temp around 72 and not let it rise above 74. Even so, its good to hear you are keeping the temp down.

05/31/2007, 10:53 AM	#18
sloshesv Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: ft myers, fl Posts: 723	Way off? I think that comment is way off. I add buffer to my SH tank and my reef tank, but can never seem to get it over 8. Yet my corals, fish and inverts seem to thrive. From reading lots of threads on the main forum, I'm not concerned with that. I DO monitor the temp at all times. The extremely expensive cooler I use has some variation before it kicks in. I use the temp settings I was told by seahorsesource for kudas. I'll get an ammonia test kit just so I don't have that hanging over my head, but again I do lots of water changes and keep it pristine. And again, this SH had been perfectly healthy for over a year under the exact same conditions and her tankmate appears perfectly healthy. I don't think this has anything at all to do with water and/or tank conditions, but I do appreciate your input( except for the "way off" comment). __________________ It's just sloshesv, your Honor Current Tank Info: 55 gallon reef, 20 gal seahorse and leaf fish

05/31/2007, 11:06 AM	#20
ann83 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: MO Posts: 937	I agree that your temps are good. I was just suggesting keeping it a bit lower when they are stressed to reduce the chance of disease. Its pretty common to recommend slightly lower temps in stress situations. I really do believe though that the pH could be an issue. A LOT of people have had their SH stop eating with a low pH. It can't hurt to try to raise it. Even rasing .1 could make a big difference in her appetite and it won't hurt to try. If you can get it up to 8.0, that is wonderful. Like I said, pH affects every SH differently, and can take a while to have an affect, so that could be why the other SH still has an appetite. Overall though, I think conditions sound good. I didn't mean to make it sound like you were poorly maintaining your tank. Get those ammonia readings though, just in case. You could have a dead snail or some dead bristle worms in the rocks or something.

05/31/2007, 11:10 AM	#21
ann83 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: MO Posts: 937	Also, and I should have asked from the get go, have you had an increase in your copepod population recently? Is she spending a lot of time hunting in the live rock?

05/31/2007, 11:30 AM	#22
sloshesv Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: ft myers, fl Posts: 723	It looks like she's hunting in the LR , but I haven't noticed any increase in pods or heard her snick. She's always loved the ghost shrimp, so I still don't think she's eating. I don't know if she's stressed, but I'm beat up. I'll stop at the LFS and get a ammonia test kit on the way home. __________________ It's just sloshesv, your Honor Current Tank Info: 55 gallon reef, 20 gal seahorse and leaf fish

06/02/2007, 09:11 AM	#23
NONNA58 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Lutz, Florida Posts: 4,007	how is your horse?

06/04/2007, 06:38 AM	#24
sloshesv Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: ft myers, fl Posts: 723	Still alive, so she has to be eating something, right? Other than not eating the mysis or ghost shrimp she's acting perfectly normal. Weird __________________ It's just sloshesv, your Honor Current Tank Info: 55 gallon reef, 20 gal seahorse and leaf fish

06/04/2007, 01:24 PM	#25
sloshesv Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: ft myers, fl Posts: 723	She's really BIG today. I swear to God I'm going to get you people a pic soon. __________________ It's just sloshesv, your Honor Current Tank Info: 55 gallon reef, 20 gal seahorse and leaf fish