Algae Scrubber Basics

[outy]

Originally Posted by karimwassef

then noone is safe... LOL

there's no such thing as 0 in nature. there's always some parts per billion, unless you're in a clean room, and even then...

yes PPB Randy once measured 15ppb

don't screw around AT ALL with poison in your tank, what so hard to understand?

[karimwassef]

Originally Posted by SantaMonica

Something is wrong there. Some chemical (copper, etc) killed the scrubber, and thus without the scrubber to absorb nutrients, the dino's grew. If a scrubber is working at all, dino's and diatoms are the first to go (sand clears up, etc.)

I recommend that those who find it so hard to believe: join the dino thread in the chemistry forum. Dinoflagellates are not algae. They create an environment that is toxic to algae. There's no copper, but they do create poisons that kill snails, crabs and fish.

If a scrubber is working at all - dinos can take over - if a chemical is added that rapidly reduces nutrients below where algae needs to survive and dinos can thrive. Please read my full description above and visit the dino thread if you want to recommend other treatments.

If you've never dealt with them, I would advise against jumping to easy remedies prematurely - it's not very kind to those that are on the verge of leaving the hobby because of them.

I personally think a supercharged ATS with a lot of food is one of the answers - but that doesn't preclude an ATS dying and dinos taking over if other chemicals are added.

[Steadysteady]

Originally Posted by outy

I'm running a 30W version of that exact light and my screen size is similar as yours.

I'm getting great growth over the whole screen.

I'm about to build a ATS and am considering these lights for similar size screen. I've seen some posts about these causing a hot spot in centre of screen, that been an issue for you. Did you attach them either side to acrylic box or something?

[salty joe]

Originally Posted by karimwassef

If a scrubber is working at all - dinos can take over - if a chemical is added that rapidly reduces nutrients below where algae needs to survive and dinos can thrive. .

What chemicals are you talking about?

BTW, the level of copper toxic to our tanks is well below what our hobby test kits can detect.

[jrp1588]

Originally Posted by karimwassef

I recommend that those who find it so hard to believe: join the dino thread in the chemistry forum. Dinoflagellates are not algae. They create an environment that is toxic to algae. There's no copper, but they do create poisons that kill snails, crabs and fish.

If a scrubber is working at all - dinos can take over - if a chemical is added that rapidly reduces nutrients below where algae needs to survive and dinos can thrive. Please read my full description above and visit the dino thread if you want to recommend other treatments.

If you've never dealt with them, I would advise against jumping to easy remedies prematurely - it's not very kind to those that are on the verge of leaving the hobby because of them.

I personally think a supercharged ATS with a lot of food is one of the answers - but that doesn't preclude an ATS dying and dinos taking over if other chemicals are added.

Shoot, I don't even run a low nutrient system, and I've still struggled off and on with them.

[wildwilly1]

well I guess I will be trying out the 50 watts from amazon got in a hurry yesterday and ordered them couldn't cancel this morn so we will see. just hope they are not too strong . I am using a sync silence pump 3.0 .it is rated at 900 plus gph so I guess I can just increase the flow

[wildwilly1]

im sorry 714 gph .

[hkgar]

Originally Posted by wildwilly1

I have those same lights hkgar I like them but they are just so small worried they are too small and not powerful enough the reds are only like 530-550 nm I think you need 660 nm if I remember. just worried that maybe the new 50watts I ordered are too strong but I guess I can always increase the flow or move back from screen a little

According to the description for these lights on Amazon they are 630 nm, true not 660 but better than 550


Wavelength : Red 620-630nm,Blue 460-470nm
Waterproof: IP65
Certificates: CE, ROHS, FCC
Suggested Continuous Working Time: 10-15 hours per day
1 Year Warranty!

How specific wavelength works:
Blue wavelength 460nm: Help plants grow
Red wavelength 630nm: Help plants grow and flowering,red LED is the key for flowering plants

[karimwassef]

Originally Posted by salty joe

What chemicals are you talking about?

BTW, the level of copper toxic to our tanks is well below what our hobby test kits can detect.

For me, I think it was a combination of LaCl and an alumina oxide based reactor. The combination killed all hair algae very quickly. The La killed them very quickly and as their tissue dissolved, the alumina soaked it up.. It's not the only variable, but this is what set it off for me.

Others have used "reef safe algicides", etc...

I wasn't going to add copper and measure it. I wanted to run the math to see what dose would be low enough to be below the limit. Even frozen food has some ppb metals and we feed constantly. It's like human consumption and Arsenic... Needs to be very very very low, but nothing is zero. I never liked brussel sprouts (higher in As).

Ok... To close this out- the recommendation was to go with a sodium nitrate additive instead.

[outy]

Originally Posted by Steadysteady

I'm about to build a ATS and am considering these lights for similar size screen. I've seen some posts about these causing a hot spot in centre of screen, that been an issue for you. Did you attach them either side to acrylic box or something?

nope mine is open and at an angle looking down on the screen.

So far there is no spot as I have mine further away.


Its been up for 2 weeks so the bright green GHA will show the results when it starts

[SantaMonica]

630 nm will grow fine.

[TimeConsumer]

I plan to purchase one of your small units for an upcoming 20g build. It will be a light bioload of only 3 small fish so I feel the 0.5 or 0.6 models will suffice just fine for my intentions. However, is there any major factor to consider when deciding between the HOG or the Drop? I don't have any space limitations.

[reret10]

This was probably asked sometime throughout the thread but would 3000k LED lights work alright for an ATS? I have like a few hundred in my basement that a friend gave to me and it would be awesome if I could use a few for an ATS (although if not whatever since like lightbulbs are cheap and home depot is close). I'm just curious since they don't run so hot, they're cheaper to run, use less electricity and still emit 3000k.

[reret10]

Oh sorry I forgot to clarify, I'm talking about something looking like this: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...L._SL1000_.jpg

[SantaMonica]

Scrubbers that shine through the glass, compared to scrubbers that set underwater on the bottom, differ mostly by the ability to see the growth by looking through the glass without having to reach in, and by the light that escapes sideways through the glass.

As for sound, if you put both of them farther down, they will both make bubble sounds. But if you raise them 1/2" above the waterline, the ones that set on the bottom will be silent, whereas the one attached to the glass will still be heard

Those 3000k lights are not great for growing. Much better to use red light if you can find them at HD.

[taricha]

Originally Posted by karimwassef

I wasn't going to add copper and measure it. I wanted to run the math to see what dose would be low enough to be below the limit. Even frozen food has some ppb metals and we feed constantly. It's like human consumption and Arsenic... Needs to be very very very low, but nothing is zero. I never liked brussel sprouts (higher in As).

Ok... To close this out- the recommendation was to go with a sodium nitrate additive instead.

Ok, but the biggest punch in that miracle grow is the P, not N. Dosing nitrate would do something completely different.
I mention this because i dosed kno3 to get my nitrates up (having already gotten my Phosphates up) and it did and dropped my phosphates to nothing so now nothing green is growing.

Some ballpark numbers for your miracle grow (not a chem person, could be way off)
8% phosphate (pretending PO4 and P2O5 are interchangeable)
0.07% copper (so 100x more phosphate)

If you target 0.10 ppm phosphate, that would give you just under .001 ppm or 1ppb copper.
Seawater 380 ng/L = .38 ppb
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-11/rhf/#9
So you are in the ballpark of natural seawater but 2-3 times higher.

[karimwassef]

I'm using the all purpose MG for my phyto. It's a 24-8-16 (24% N, 8% P, 16% K).

[Floyd R Turbo]

Originally Posted by karimwassef

http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilize...spx?pname=2101
http://oda.state.or.us/dbs/heavy_met...roduct_id=6023

what's the safe Cu ppb level?

You're not talking about adding Miracle Grow to your reef tank, are you? I can't imagine that is a good idea

[karimwassef]

I'm using it to feed my phyto right now. I am curious about the effect on a reef though. If I did add it, could an ATS handle it and export the excess successfully?

I won't try it in my DT, but I may try it in an experimental tank.

[FullBoreReefer]

Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo

You're not talking about adding Miracle Grow to your reef tank, are you? I can't imagine that is a good idea

This is funny, I just got home from work. I operate heavy equipment for The Scotts Company.(Miracle-Gro).

[wildwilly1]

this is growth or whatever it is after 4 days .what do you think

[wildwilly1]

running the red 660 nm leds 18 hrs on 6 hours off

[karimwassef]

Originally Posted by FullBoreReefer

This is funny, I just got home from work. I operate heavy equipment for The Scotts Company.(Miracle-Gro).

Recommend that they get into mariculture... Reef-Gro

[KafudaFish]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2546549

Miracle gro is used in this system.

[karimwassef]

Thanks!