French angel with scars on face??

Carey1465 · 03/07/2018, 08:22 PM

Noticed my French angel has a few scars or something on his face. He’s seems healthy and has no other signs sickness. He’s been in my 210 for almost 1yr. All my parameters are normal. Do you think he was poking his face into the rocks and possibly hurt his face? I googled this type of injury or sickness and couldn’t find anything.

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OhsCC · 03/07/2018, 08:33 PM

Have you added any fish or other livestock to your tank? Any other fish effected?

OrionN · 03/07/2018, 09:06 PM

I think that is HLLE. It is bring on by poor water condition or poor diet.
Change water frequently, make sure there is no stray voltage, and feed a wide variety of food including green and Nori, he should recover without permanent scars.

You may have a Grey Angel instead of French Angel. Clear picture of the tail of the fish should differentiate the two.

moondoggy4 · 03/07/2018, 09:24 PM

Are you running bio pellets? Lots of carbon?

Carey1465 · 03/07/2018, 09:38 PM

No recently added fish, the nitrates are around 5ppm and the Ph is 8.1. The tank has been running for almost 2yrs now. I started running bio pellets about a year ago but I’m starting to let them run out now. I also mix the food up between Rods frozen food, krill, PE mysis, oceans nutrion flake food, new life spectrum pellets and seaweed. I normally mix some Seachem garlic guard in the frozen but I ran out a month ago.

Bio pellets may have something to do with it?

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moondoggy4 · 03/08/2018, 12:47 AM

I was running bio pellets successfully and then I increased the volume, and my skimmer started to skim like crazy I had witches hair like skimmate coming out of the lid of my skimmer, I thought wow this is working great and then I saw my Purple tang and it looked like lighting struck his head. So I attributed that to the increase of the bio pellets and I took them off line, my PT looks great now.

Carey1465 · 03/08/2018, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moondoggy4

I was running bio pellets successfully and then I increased the volume, and my skimmer started to skim like crazy I had witches hair like skimmate coming out of the lid of my skimmer, I thought wow this is working great and then I saw my Purple tang and it looked like lighting struck his head. So I attributed that to the increase of the bio pellets and I took them off line, my PT looks great now.

I’ve been thinking about doing away with the bio pellets and I’m down to 1/4 of what’s recommended for my size tank and I’m still around 5ppm. I have a FOLWR tank so I’m not worried about a few nitrates.

Also, I never ran carbon in my tanks because of the problems with HLLE.

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Bent · 03/08/2018, 12:53 PM

HLLE or lympho.

I lean toward HLLE

How old is this fish? How long have you had it.

Carey1465 · 03/08/2018, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bent

HLLE or lympho.

I lean toward HLLE

How old is this fish? How long have you had it.

I had him almost a year now. Not sure about the age of the fish but he pretty much still has his juvenile markings. Barely starting to change.

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Carey1465 · 03/08/2018, 09:24 PM

I came home from work and was cleaning some equipment and I noticed my jebao dct-15000 pump has a little rust on it. So I took it apart and the screws that hold the cover on are rusting. I ordered some new screws tonight. Is it a possibility that the rust from these screws have something to do with it?

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Hydrus · 03/08/2018, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bent

HLLE or lympho.

I lean toward HLLE

How old is this fish? How long have you had it.

This was my first thought too.

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WVfishguy · 03/08/2018, 11:35 PM

Classic Head and Lateral Line Erosion, aka HLLE.

I doubt a small amount of rust would harm your fish.

I have a hypothesis that the dietary needs of many species change as they age. I've seen Paracanthurus hepatus tangs grow large and then, rather suddenly, develop HLLE, sometimes even going blind.

A friend kept his Hippo tang with his inverts until one day it destroyed his tank, eating everything it could. It was quite large at the time. I believe it was not getting the nutrition it required as it aged.

If you can rule out stray voltage, and water parameters are good, you may want to provide more of whatever is missing from your fish's diet. If it's not getting a lot of greens, increase it; I would be giving it an Angelfish food with sponge it it as a matter of course. I've always used black mussels for large fish.

One my favorite tricks was to cut nori in strips, soak it in fish oil, and feed it to the fish.

I used to purchase fish with HLLE at a discount. I could invariably cure the fish simply by feeding food I made myself out of squid, nori, spirulina, and a other various molluscs and crustaceans I purchased locally.

Invariably, the previous owners of the fish fed dry, processed food, which I believe is a major factor in HLLE. I would only allow my salt water customers to use ANY processed food in small amounts. It was to be an occasional treat, never a major food source. My personal fish get almost NO dry food.

Carey1465 · 03/08/2018, 11:54 PM

I ordered a grounding probe today and I’ll definitely increase the nori and pick up more food for angels this weekend. Trying to nip this in the butt in the early stage.

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OrionN · 03/09/2018, 06:02 AM

I love French Angel. I think they are the most graceful of fish. However I can only keep them in FOWLR tanks which I don't keep anymore. I caught a tiny French Angel, less than dime sized, from Mustang Island State Park several years ago in the Spring on the rocky shore of an old dried fish run. I have been looking for similar thing ever since when we go to the beach but never get lucky like that again. I keep him several months and trade him to a friend for corals.
Post a picture of the tail.

It is HLLE. Should be very easy treat at early stage like this if you ID the cause.

About dry flakes, good dry flakes have very good nutrition, just not everything. Many omnivore without dry food will not get adequate nutrition. I would use several good dry food mixed together as the main source of food in their diet, but be sure they get frozen food also. IMO, Nori is a must for French Angel. Good water condition and elimination of stray voltage are also very important.

Good luck with him, he is beautiful. I wish I can keep a pair.

Carey1465 · 03/09/2018, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrionN

I love French Angel. I think they are the most graceful of fish. However I can only keep them in FOWLR tanks which I don't keep anymore. I caught a tiny French Angel, less than dime sized, from Mustang Island State Park several years ago in the Spring on the rocky shore of an old dried fish run. I have been looking for similar thing ever since when we go to the beach but never get lucky like that again. I keep him several months and trade him to a friend for corals.
Post a picture of the tail.

It is HLLE. Should be very easy treat at early stage like this if you ID the cause.

About dry flakes, good dry flakes have very good nutrition, just not everything. Many omnivore without dry food will not get adequate nutrition. I would use several good dry food mixed together as the main source of food in their diet, but be sure they get frozen food also. IMO, Nori is a must for French Angel. Good water condition and elimination of stray voltage are also very important.

Good luck with him, he is beautiful. I wish I can keep a pair.

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OrionN · 03/09/2018, 11:14 AM

That is a French Angel

03/07/2018, 08:22 PM	#1
Carey1465 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Atlanta, Ga Posts: 251	French angel with scars on face?? Noticed my French angel has a few scars or something on his face. He’s seems healthy and has no other signs sickness. He’s been in my 210 for almost 1yr. All my parameters are normal. Do you think he was poking his face into the rocks and possibly hurt his face? I googled this type of injury or sickness and couldn’t find anything. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

03/07/2018, 09:06 PM	#3
OrionN Moved on Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Coastal Texas Posts: 16,000	I think that is HLLE. It is bring on by poor water condition or poor diet. Change water frequently, make sure there is no stray voltage, and feed a wide variety of food including green and Nori, he should recover without permanent scars. You may have a Grey Angel instead of French Angel. Clear picture of the tail of the fish should differentiate the two. __________________ Minh My homepage is my album here at Reef Central Current Tank Info: Reboot 320 anemones reef. Angels: Yellow Chest Regal(2), Flame (2). Copperband But. Tangs: Yellow, Purple. Wrasse: about 20 wrasses various species. Anemones: Giantea X4 (Breen, Blue, Purple and Multicolors), Haddoni X1 Red, Magnifica X1 Purpletip Last edited by OrionN; 03/07/2018 at 09:30 PM.

03/08/2018, 12:53 PM	#8
Bent I got nothin' Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The anals Posts: 6,420	HLLE or lympho. I lean toward HLLE How old is this fish? How long have you had it. __________________ Quitters never lose. [QUOTE=CStrickland]Who gets mad at a starfish?[/QUOTE] Current Tank Info: 75g DT, 30G refugium, 10g chaeto tank, 50g stock tank basement sump

03/08/2018, 11:35 PM	#12
WVfishguy Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Huntington, WV Posts: 677	Classic Head and Lateral Line Erosion, aka HLLE. I doubt a small amount of rust would harm your fish. I have a hypothesis that the dietary needs of many species change as they age. I've seen Paracanthurus hepatus tangs grow large and then, rather suddenly, develop HLLE, sometimes even going blind. A friend kept his Hippo tang with his inverts until one day it destroyed his tank, eating everything it could. It was quite large at the time. I believe it was not getting the nutrition it required as it aged. If you can rule out stray voltage, and water parameters are good, you may want to provide more of whatever is missing from your fish's diet. If it's not getting a lot of greens, increase it; I would be giving it an Angelfish food with sponge it it as a matter of course. I've always used black mussels for large fish. One my favorite tricks was to cut nori in strips, soak it in fish oil, and feed it to the fish. I used to purchase fish with HLLE at a discount. I could invariably cure the fish simply by feeding food I made myself out of squid, nori, spirulina, and a other various molluscs and crustaceans I purchased locally. Invariably, the previous owners of the fish fed dry, processed food, which I believe is a major factor in HLLE. I would only allow my salt water customers to use ANY processed food in small amounts. It was to be an occasional treat, never a major food source. My personal fish get almost NO dry food. Last edited by WVfishguy; 03/08/2018 at 11:41 PM.

03/09/2018, 06:02 AM	#14
OrionN Moved on Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Coastal Texas Posts: 16,000	I love French Angel. I think they are the most graceful of fish. However I can only keep them in FOWLR tanks which I don't keep anymore. I caught a tiny French Angel, less than dime sized, from Mustang Island State Park several years ago in the Spring on the rocky shore of an old dried fish run. I have been looking for similar thing ever since when we go to the beach but never get lucky like that again. I keep him several months and trade him to a friend for corals. Post a picture of the tail. It is HLLE. Should be very easy treat at early stage like this if you ID the cause. About dry flakes, good dry flakes have very good nutrition, just not everything. Many omnivore without dry food will not get adequate nutrition. I would use several good dry food mixed together as the main source of food in their diet, but be sure they get frozen food also. IMO, Nori is a must for French Angel. Good water condition and elimination of stray voltage are also very important. Good luck with him, he is beautiful. I wish I can keep a pair. __________________ Minh My homepage is my album here at Reef Central Current Tank Info: Reboot 320 anemones reef. Angels: Yellow Chest Regal(2), Flame (2). Copperband But. Tangs: Yellow, Purple. Wrasse: about 20 wrasses various species. Anemones: Giantea X4 (Breen, Blue, Purple and Multicolors), Haddoni X1 Red, Magnifica X1 Purpletip

03/07/2018, 08:33 PM	#2
OhsCC Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 247	Have you added any fish or other livestock to your tank? Any other fish effected?

03/07/2018, 09:24 PM	#4
moondoggy4 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: menifee So cal Posts: 11,042	Are you running bio pellets? Lots of carbon?

03/07/2018, 09:38 PM	#5
Carey1465 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Atlanta, Ga Posts: 251	No recently added fish, the nitrates are around 5ppm and the Ph is 8.1. The tank has been running for almost 2yrs now. I started running bio pellets about a year ago but I’m starting to let them run out now. I also mix the food up between Rods frozen food, krill, PE mysis, oceans nutrion flake food, new life spectrum pellets and seaweed. I normally mix some Seachem garlic guard in the frozen but I ran out a month ago. Bio pellets may have something to do with it? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

03/08/2018, 12:47 AM	#6
moondoggy4 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: menifee So cal Posts: 11,042	I was running bio pellets successfully and then I increased the volume, and my skimmer started to skim like crazy I had witches hair like skimmate coming out of the lid of my skimmer, I thought wow this is working great and then I saw my Purple tang and it looked like lighting struck his head. So I attributed that to the increase of the bio pellets and I took them off line, my PT looks great now.

03/08/2018, 09:24 PM	#10
Carey1465 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Atlanta, Ga Posts: 251	I came home from work and was cleaning some equipment and I noticed my jebao dct-15000 pump has a little rust on it. So I took it apart and the screws that hold the cover on are rusting. I ordered some new screws tonight. Is it a possibility that the rust from these screws have something to do with it? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

03/08/2018, 11:54 PM	#13
Carey1465 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Atlanta, Ga Posts: 251	I ordered a grounding probe today and I’ll definitely increase the nori and pick up more food for angels this weekend. Trying to nip this in the butt in the early stage. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

03/09/2018, 11:14 AM	#16
OrionN Moved on Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Coastal Texas Posts: 16,000	That is a French Angel __________________ Minh My homepage is my album here at Reef Central Current Tank Info: Reboot 320 anemones reef. Angels: Yellow Chest Regal(2), Flame (2). Copperband But. Tangs: Yellow, Purple. Wrasse: about 20 wrasses various species. Anemones: Giantea X4 (Breen, Blue, Purple and Multicolors), Haddoni X1 Red, Magnifica X1 Purpletip