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Old 11/07/2017, 09:05 AM   #1
joecc
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The ethics of rimless tanks and fish jumping

Not trying to start a war but fish jump. Almost all species can jump out of a glass box. I can't count how many posts I've read where a hobbyist state that this or that fish jumped out of the tank and died as if that is some sort of surprise or could not be contemplated. It should not surprise anyone.

Put a lid on it. Your tank looking cool should not trump avoidable fish deaths



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Old 11/07/2017, 09:59 AM   #2
pisanoal
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Not trying to start a war but fish jump. Almost all species can jump out of a glass box. I can't count how many posts I've read where a hobbyist states that this or that fish jumped out of the tank and died as if that is some sort of surprise or could not be contemplated. It should not surprise anyone.

Put a lid on it. Your tank looking cool should not trump avoidable fish deaths
Agreed. At the very very least, don't gamble by putting known jumpers in a topless tank. I've done it in the past and been lucky, but I know better now and believe in this post. Only fish I lost to jumping was in QT when I forgot to put the screen cover back on. I feel really guilty when any fish dies in my care, knowing that it could have lived much longer in its original environment. If its something I know I could have prevented, especially with something as easy as a screen top, I feel really guilty...

A lot of these fish are pulled from their wide open ocean environments to live in our tanks. Its our responsibility to care for them in the best way we can.


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Old 11/07/2017, 05:30 PM   #3
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Rimless are pretty, but I cover my tanks for both fish protection purposes and it dramatically reduces evaporation. It reduces light a bit, but I have to dial down my LED's anyways. With a larger tank auto topoffs negate the evaporation issue, but it gets less practical with smaller tanks.
Again, I love the look of rimless tanks, but I know a lot of rimless owners that as soon as company leaves and they are done impressing a cover goes over the tank.


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Old 11/07/2017, 10:40 PM   #4
Punchanello
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New to the hobby. A rimless tank with a well made screen top is still better looking and more practical than a hood or cover. IMO there's no excuse for not having one for livestock safety.


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Old 11/08/2017, 04:58 PM   #5
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99% of the fish sold in all pet stores are doomed, so an open tank owner is generally a better gamble then joe idiot buying a 6 line wrasse which you know will jump.

I think most open tank owners know better, but man it does suck when a fish you have had for 10 years decides to fly.

Best thing I ever did was cover my overflows with plexi cut to fit.


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Old 11/08/2017, 05:48 PM   #6
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I personally have a RSR150 and love how it looks, but also care too much about losing my beloved fish that I purchased an artfully acrylic lid. Not super cheap, but doesn't take too much away from looks.


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Old 11/08/2017, 06:05 PM   #7
johnike
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Yep.
Cover 'em up folks!


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Old 11/10/2017, 11:51 AM   #8
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Honestly I've run open-top for over a decade, and the only time I ever had jumpers was in my first years of reefing. And I stopped having jumpers after I eliminated sources of aggression and introduced moonlight so the tank was never in "pitch black" darkness.

That said I do keep a lid on the tank of my 6-line i got a month ago, as a precaution, though i've yet to see any jumping tendencies from him.


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Old 11/10/2017, 03:26 PM   #9
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I did this in order to prevent water spilling with an earthquake but Iīve seen a wrasse of mine jumping out of the tank and this rim prevent him from going down the tank.
HTH


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Old 11/22/2017, 10:03 PM   #10
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thats an interesting take on a cover. and How does one earth quake proof a tank?


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Old 11/23/2017, 08:23 AM   #11
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thats an interesting take on a cover. and How does one earth quake proof a tank?
You can't.


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Old 11/24/2017, 11:50 AM   #12
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An acrylic framed top is hardly noticeable.


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Old 11/24/2017, 05:12 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by outy View Post
99% of the fish sold in all pet stores are doomed, so an open tank owner is generally a better gamble then joe idiot buying a 6 line wrasse which you know will jump.

I think most open tank owners know better, but man it does suck when a fish you have had for 10 years decides to fly.
...
Seems that they donít know better !


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Old 11/26/2017, 01:40 AM   #14
snowlynx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joecc View Post
Not trying to start a war but fish jump. Almost all species can jump out of a glass box. I can't count how many posts I've read where a hobbyist state that this or that fish jumped out of the tank and died as if that is some sort of surprise or could not be contemplated. It should not surprise anyone.

Put a lid on it. Your tank looking cool should not trump avoidable fish deaths
why rimless tanks only?


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Old 11/26/2017, 09:06 AM   #15
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If one takes a moment to consider the deplorable survival rates of fish collected for our hobby, worrying specifically about the ethics of an open top tak seems akin to the old saying about closing the barn door after the horses have already bolted.

FWIW, I do have screen tops on all of my tanks (including the trim less ones) except the frag tank. Haven't had a frag jump yet fortunately.


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Old 11/27/2017, 09:29 PM   #16
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If one takes a moment to consider the deplorable survival rates of fish collected for our hobby, worrying specifically about the ethics of an open top tak seems akin to the old saying about closing the barn door after the horses have already bolted.

FWIW, I do have screen tops on all of my tanks (including the trim less ones) except the frag tank. Haven't had a frag jump yet fortunately.
I don't buy this argument. Just because something is bad, does not mean that we should not continue to make an effort to improve. People that drive open jeeps for example have garbage protection and jeeps are notorious for rolling...but it is still recommended to wear a seatbelt.

Once the fish is in our care, it is our responsibility to do all we can to ensure not only their survival but their well being in general. In fact, I would say that if it is in fact true that survival rate from capture to purchase is so dismal, we should go the extra mile to ensure that the fish that do survive continue to do so.


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Old 11/28/2017, 10:00 AM   #17
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I have glass tops on my tank, and left a 1/2" gap in the front to facilitate easier feedings...

Came home to a dried up Diamond Watchman Goby. :/


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Old 11/29/2017, 07:31 AM   #18
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I don't buy this argument. Just because something is bad, does not mean that we should not continue to make an effort to improve. People that drive open jeeps for example have garbage protection and jeeps are notorious for rolling...but it is still recommended to wear a seatbelt.

Once the fish is in our care, it is our responsibility to do all we can to ensure not only their survival but their well being in general. In fact, I would say that if it is in fact true that survival rate from capture to purchase is so dismal, we should go the extra mile to ensure that the fish that do survive continue to do so.
very good post buddy.


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Old 11/29/2017, 01:38 PM   #19
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I have glass tops on my tank, and left a 1/2" gap in the front to facilitate easier feedings...

Came home to a dried up Diamond Watchman Goby. :/

The edges are definitely the most important parts to be covered. A lot of fish shoot straight up along the walls of the tank and out along the edge. I lost a radial file Fish even with one of the BRS mesh lids because there was still a 3/16 gap between the frame of the lid and the glass due to the plastic pieces that hold the lid. It somehow managed to get through the gap and land on top of the mesh part to be quickly cooked by the LEDs


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Old 11/29/2017, 10:59 PM   #20
ca1ore
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Originally Posted by kalare View Post
I don't buy this argument. Just because something is bad, does not mean that we should not continue to make an effort to improve. People that drive open jeeps for example have garbage protection and jeeps are notorious for rolling...but it is still recommended to wear a seatbelt.

Once the fish is in our care, it is our responsibility to do all we can to ensure not only their survival but their well being in general. In fact, I would say that if it is in fact true that survival rate from capture to purchase is so dismal, we should go the extra mile to ensure that the fish that do survive continue to do so.
Not entirely sure how to respond since you've completely misconstrued my comments. I wasn't actually 'arguing' that folks should not use screen tops. I clearly note that I do use them. My observation was more amusement about framing the practice of open top tanks in the context of ethics when the entire hobby is one big ethical challenge. That we accept the ethics of keeping these animals in captivity, yet focus on one small element as the 'dilemma' struck me as missing the proverbial forest for the trees. I guess it's a subtle point, and easily missed - or poorly articulated. FWIW, I completely agree with your sentiments.


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Old 11/30/2017, 07:25 AM   #21
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The edges are definitely the most important parts to be covered. A lot of fish shoot straight up along the walls of the tank and out along the edge. I lost a radial file Fish even with one of the BRS mesh lids because there was still a 3/16 gap between the frame of the lid and the glass due to the plastic pieces that hold the lid. It somehow managed to get through the gap and land on top of the mesh part to be quickly cooked by the LEDs
Yeah, lesson learned at the expense of a really cool creature. I put the plastic strips on the back and notched them for cables, so it fits tightly now. I hate that my laziness killed him/her/it.


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Old 11/30/2017, 09:15 AM   #22
joecc
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Not entirely sure how to respond since you've completely misconstrued my comments. I wasn't actually 'arguing' that folks should not use screen tops. I clearly note that I do use them. My observation was more amusement about framing the practice of open top tanks in the context of ethics when the entire hobby is one big ethical challenge. That we accept the ethics of keeping these animals in captivity, yet focus on one small element as the 'dilemma' struck me as missing the proverbial forest for the trees. I guess it's a subtle point, and easily missed - or poorly articulated. FWIW, I completely agree with your sentiments.
There are ethical guidelines even in warfare, at least in theory. The topic here seems perfectly appropriate.


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Old 11/30/2017, 09:36 AM   #23
kalare
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Not entirely sure how to respond since you've completely misconstrued my comments. I wasn't actually 'arguing' that folks should not use screen tops. I clearly note that I do use them. My observation was more amusement about framing the practice of open top tanks in the context of ethics when the entire hobby is one big ethical challenge. That we accept the ethics of keeping these animals in captivity, yet focus on one small element as the 'dilemma' struck me as missing the proverbial forest for the trees. I guess it's a subtle point, and easily missed - or poorly articulated. FWIW, I completely agree with your sentiments.
Apologies if I misunderstood your post. I do however think the question at hand is one to be asked. Though it may be one small part of the overall hobby, asking the small questions is always a good place to start. Similar argument perhaps, accepting keeping the animals in captivity, but then focusing on the blue tang in a 20 gallon and never moving it.


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Old 11/30/2017, 02:21 PM   #24
ca1ore
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The topic here seems perfectly appropriate.
Perhaps I am alone, then, in seeing the irony in it


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Old 11/30/2017, 02:43 PM   #25
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Perhaps I am alone, then...:
Well, you do use the numeral "1" to spell your name


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