Italy's Best! Matured SPS Aquariums.

[Herpervet]

Don't forget:
Ca- 500
mg-1500
alk-12
ph 8.3-8.4
sr-30

I forgot but they also watch iodine. You will have to find the original post for that one. I think it is .06.

[Sir]

Originally posted by Herpervet
Don't forget:
Ca- 500
mg-1500
alk-12
ph 8.3-8.4
sr-30

I forgot but they also watch iodine. You will have to find the original post for that one. I think it is .06.

Sr 16-30
I2 0,06
bye

[Sir]

Originally posted by Herpervet
jpierson: The theory is that the Human growth hormone is broken down into amino acids that are utilized by the corals. They are dosing the growth hormone along with sugar and shellfish. The recipe is a couple of pages back.

Apparently some folks in Italy are trying to figure out which amino acids so that you could simply use those instead of the Hgh.

At any rate there are folks that are having great success using the diet, sugar but no Hgh.

Esattamente!
questa è la vasca di alberto santilli, senza gh...

[IMG]www.ImageShack.us" />[/IMG]


[IMG]www.ImageShack.us" />[/IMG]

[solbby]

Is there any evidence that corals have receptors for HGH? Is HGH stable and functional at the pH, salt concentration, and temperature that an aquarium is kept at, since the internal human environment is quite different than the internal aquarium environment?

Is there any science backing the use of HGH for growth on species besides mammals, i.e. do human hormones have the ability to cross species gaps as vast as that between humans and corals.

Anyway these are rhetorical questions, .

BTW, nice tanks, too bad the voodoo has to interject.

[solbby]

If the theory is that HGH is broken down to amino acids then why not use BSA? BSA = Bovine serum albumin. Much less expensive, highly concentrated in amino acids when degraded, readily available, and less wasteful from a human perspective, but I guess Italy is a rich country with lots of recombinant genetic labs at the aquarist's beckon call. But then again why use a protein at all, since pharmacies sells amino acids?

[Sparkss]

They already stated somewhere in this thread that some are working to identify the individual amino acids so that they could be dosed separately, without the "need" for using HGH

[invincible569]

Originally posted by solbby
If the theory is that HGH is broken down to amino acids then why not use BSA? BSA = Bovine serum albumin. Much less expensive, highly concentrated in amino acids when degraded, readily available, and less wasteful from a human perspective, but I guess Italy is a rich country with lots of recombinant genetic labs at the aquarist's beckon call. But then again why use a protein at all, since pharmacies sells amino acids?

Hey Solbby! Nice to see you again!

What would it take to get some lab tests on what we are discussing here? maybe you can show us proof just like you did in the past with ZEOvit.

[danskim]

Very nice!

[Henry Bowman]

Invincible569

Where can I find the information on Zeovit that you referenced in your last post?

[solbby]

Hi invincible!!! What would you want to test? specifically? Right now I am doing a bacterial analysis of different aquariums bacterioplankton populations. I have about 10 tanks involved, and would like to involve a zeovit system run tank.

As for amino acids, I know where I would start. I am sure that many here have already seen this paper.

Interactions between zooplankton feeding, photosynthesis and skeletal growth in the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata.

Fanny Houlbrèque, Eric Tambutté, Denis Allemand and Christine Ferrier-Pagès





Summary



We investigated the effect of zooplankton feeding on tissue and skeletal growth of the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata. Microcolonies were divided into two groups: starved corals (SC), which were not fed during the experiment, and fed corals (FC), which were abundantly fed with Artemia salina nauplii and freshly collected zooplankton. Changes in tissue growth, photosynthesis and calcification rates were measured after 3 and 8 weeks of incubation. Calcification is the deposition of both an organic matrix and a calcium carbonate layer, so we measured the effect of feeding on both these parameters, using incorporation of 14C-aspartic acid and 45Ca, respectively. Aspartic acid is one of the major components of the organic matrix in scleractinian corals. For both sampling times, protein concentrations were twice as high in FC than in SC (0.73 vs 0.42 mg P–1 cm–2 skeleton) and chlorophyll c2 concentrations were 3–4 times higher in fed corals (2.1±0.3 µg cm–2). Cell specific density (CSD), which corresponds to the number of algal cells inside a host cell, was also significantly higher in FC (1.416±0.028) than in SC (1.316±0.015). Fed corals therefore displayed a higher rate of photosynthesis per unit area (Pgmax= 570±60 nmol O2 cm–2 h–1 and Ik=403±27 µmol photons m–2 s–1). After 8 weeks, both light and dark calcification rates were twofold greater in FC (3323±508 and 416±58 nmol Ca2+ 2 h–1 g–1 dry skeletal mass) compared to SC (1560±217 and 225±35 nmol Ca2+ 2 h–1 g–1 dry skeletal mass, respectively, under light and dark conditions). Aspartic acid incorporation rates were also significantly higher in FC (10.44±0.69 and 1.36± 0.26%RAV 2 h–1 g–1 dry skeletal mass, where RAV is total radioactivity initially present in the external medium) than in SC (6.51±0.45 and 0.44±0.02%RAV 2 h–1 g–1 dry skeletal mass under dark and light conditions, respectively). Rates of dark aspartic acid incorporation were lower than the rates measured in the light. Our results suggest that the increase in the rates of calcification in fed corals might be induced by a feeding-stimulation of organic matrix synthesis.



Extracted from:

Journal of Experimental Biology 207, 1461-1469 (2004)

Feeding has also been shown to enhance sketetal growth, suggesting that corals allocate a high proportion of the energy brought by food to calcification processes. It is important to note that calcification is also a dual process, involving the secretion of an organic matrix and the deposition of a CaCO3 fraction. The presence of an organic matrix in coral skeletons is widely documented and is considered an essential prerequisite in the formation of a biomineral structure. This matrix potentially plays key roles in various processes such as crystal nucleation and growth, crystal size and orientation and regulation of skeletal formation. Cuif et al (1999) demonstrated that the composition of the matrix was different between symbiotic and asymbiotic corals, and Allemand et al. (1998) suggested that heterotrophy is a source of aspartic acid, once of the major components of the coral matrix.

From another part of the paper.

..... Allemand et al. (1998) also showed that no aspartic acid pool was present inside the coral tissue, suggesting the need for a constant supply from an exogenous source. By using 14C-aspartic acid as a precursor for organic matrix synthesis, we measured a higher incorporation of this amino acid into the organic matrix of fed corals.............

[solbby]

continued...from another part of the paper.

Feeding might therefore have enhanced the construction of the organic matrix by (i) supplying additional input of energy, espercially for the dark processes. Under high plankton concentrations...........uptake of organic carbon (and hence energy) may be significant and could provide some energy for calcium/proton exchange at night. Alternatively, the larger biomass of fed corals may have provided larger energy stores for dark processes. Thus, feeding might have (ii) directly provided the necessary 'external' amino acids and/or (iii) indirectly increased photosynthesis and therefore the supply of 'autotrophic' amino acids.

[solbby]

So in conclusion from the thoughts above, we have a internally synthesized pool of amino acids created via photosynthesis and secondary metabolism and an amino acid that is naturally limited in coral tissue (no storage) but is also the most abundant within the coral organic matrix.

And this amino acid must be supplied externally. In nature this occurs via active feeding by corals.

[Herpervet]

It would be interesting to look at the amino acid profile of the shellfish diet the Italians are feeding.

L-Aspartic acid is a relatively inexpensive supplement. Was there any quantified data in any of these studies. i.e. how much of the aspartate was actually layed down? This would help with figuring out a dose.

[Sir]

Originally posted by Herpervet
It would be interesting to look at the amino acid profile of the shellfish diet the Italians are feeding.

L-Aspartic acid is a relatively inexpensive supplement. Was there any quantified data in any of these studies. i.e. how much of the aspartate was actually layed down? This would help with figuring out a dose.

L'acido aspartico è proprio uno di quegli amminoacidi che vorrei provare a dosare singolarmente, perchè correlato direttamente alla calcificazione....devo provare!sarei interessato anche io a capire le quantitÃ* che stai aggiungendo, solbby...grazie!

[Sir]

Originally posted by solbby
If the theory is that HGH is broken down to amino acids then why not use BSA? BSA = Bovine serum albumin. Much less expensive, highly concentrated in amino acids when degraded, readily available, and less wasteful from a human perspective, but I guess Italy is a rich country with lots of recombinant genetic labs at the aquarist's beckon call. But then again why use a protein at all, since pharmacies sells amino acids?

ciao! hai ragione..in effetti stò cercando qualcosa di meno costoso, ma comunque efficace per la crescita...come ti ho scritto nell'altro post, voglio provare l'acido aspartico...secondo me ha delel ottime potenzialitÃ* ed è poco costoso...Interessante anche la BSA, di cui mi parli...

[Robert Patterso]

Ok, I've read the entire post now, my brain feels like jello. So if I read this right, you combine everything together, mussel,oyster,shrimp,clam with the fructose and ro/di water and freeze it. Feed every three days. Or do you add the fructose to the tank 4 hrs before feeding then feed with the cubes. My plan would be to use a glutamine, which if I got this right is where the amino acids come from?

On another forum a guy made a mush of jarred/canned oysters and glutamine with very good result. Showed growth pics over a 30 day period.

I have a tank full of acros/sps which are growing ok, but would like to give this a 60-90 day run to see results.

[lead]

I want to start off by saying thanks to all of the information shared here. I have gone through this thread and read it several times. After reading this thread for hunredth time, I decided to try amino acid aproach since HGH is illegal here. So I went to the GNC and bought a very basic body building product. I used the basic shellfish recipe and added body building supplement. I fed my first cube on Tuesday. Well tonight, I saw the most amazing thing happen. I was sitting in my lazyboy chair by my tank and saw my two dersa clams start to spawn. This has never happened before in my tank. There has to be something to this. I have had SPS tanks for 5 years now and I have never had my clams spawn before.

[Sir]

Originally posted by lead
I want to start off by saying thanks to all of the information shared here. I have gone through this thread and read it several times. After reading this thread for hunredth time, I decided to try amino acid aproach since HGH is illegal here. So I went to the GNC and bought a very basic body building product. I used the basic shellfish recipe and added body building supplement. I fed my first cube on Tuesday. Well tonight, I saw the most amazing thing happen. I was sitting in my lazyboy chair by my tank and saw my two dersa clams start to spawn. This has never happened before in my tank. There has to be something to this. I have had SPS tanks for 5 years now and I have never had my clams spawn before.

Congratulazioni!!!!!!
probabilmente però sei tu che gestisci bene la vasca e questo ti ha portato ad ottenere questi risultati...per il pappone continua a darlo e vedrai che ti troverai bene!

ciao!!!

[Sir]

Originally posted by Robert Patterso
Ok, I've read the entire post now, my brain feels like jello. So if I read this right, you combine everything together, mussel,oyster,shrimp,clam with the fructose and ro/di water and freeze it. Feed every three days. Or do you add the fructose to the tank 4 hrs before feeding then feed with the cubes. My plan would be to use a glutamine, which if I got this right is where the amino acids come from?

On another forum a guy made a mush of jarred/canned oysters and glutamine with very good result. Showed growth pics over a 30 day period.

I have a tank full of acros/sps which are growing ok, but would like to give this a 60-90 day run to see results.

Robert, il saccarosio o fruttosio, dipende da quale preferisci, puoi metterlo direttamente nel pappone. Non serve dosarlo 4 ore prima...casomai puoi dosare 1-2 ore pirma del pappone, un pò di amminoacidi...va bene anche la glutammina.
ciao

[invincible569]

Originally posted by Henry Bowman
Invincible569

Where can I find the information on Zeovit that you referenced in your last post?

Thats an old thread. It was probably under the Captive Oceans forum which is no more. Maybe someone saved a link.

[invincible569]

Originally posted by solbby
Hi invincible!!! What would you want to test? specifically? .

I would love to see where the HGH magic happens which is during the freezing part of making the cubes. Is it possible for someone like you to obtain HGH and run lab tests on this procedure?

[lead]

Could someone translate the last few posting please. I would really apreciate it.
Thanks

[N-A-S-O]

Originally posted by lead
I want to start off by saying thanks to all of the information shared here. I have gone through this thread and read it several times. After reading this thread for hunredth time, I decided to try amino acid aproach since HGH is illegal here. So I went to the GNC and bought a very basic body building product. I used the basic shellfish recipe and added body building supplement. I fed my first cube on Tuesday. Well tonight, I saw the most amazing thing happen. I was sitting in my lazyboy chair by my tank and saw my two dersa clams start to spawn. This has never happened before in my tank. There has to be something to this. I have had SPS tanks for 5 years now and I have never had my clams spawn before.

"So I went to the GNC and bought a very basic body building product"............. and what would that be?????

[sprite]

Congratulazioni!!!!!!probabilmente per� six you that you manage the bathtub and this well has carried you to obtain these turns out to you... for the continuous glutton to give it and will see that you will find yourself well!


Robert, saccarosio or the fructose, depends from which you prefer, you can put it in the glutton directly. Servants not to dose it 4 hours before... casomai you can dose 1-2 hours pirma of the glutton, a p� of amino acids... goes also the glutammina well

[Aqua Keepers]

Ok the Italian to English translations still make no sence to me. Can someone break down what is going on in this thread?