automatic water change

DRThompson · 11/14/2013, 04:01 PM

Thought I would document this and encourage questions/comments/suggestions.

I'm working on setting up an automated water change at 1% per day (for me about 2 gallons)

Ref: I'm referencing "Water Changes in Reef Aquaria" by Randy Holmes-Farley see link here http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/

Since my display tank is not on an exterior wall I've laid 3 lines of 1/4" tubing from my garage to my display tank thru the attic (each run is about 35 feet)

Two of these lines go up to the top of my canopy (one carries ATO and the other carries the fresh saltwater).

The 3rd line goes to my sump and will be the suction line for old DT water.

The continuous water change will be implemented using a double-head Stenner pump (100DM4 model). It has an adjustable output of up to 35gal/day/head. I'll be running this thru my apex and figured I would stagger it 6 times a day for 14 min/run.

DRThompson · 11/14/2013, 04:04 PM

Here are some pics
This is the double head Stenner pump..

Top head is freshwater from barrel to the top of the canopy

bottom head is old water pulled from tank and then sent to a drain pipe in my attic

mrx66699 · 11/14/2013, 04:05 PM

Nice looking forward too your changes ....same way I set up my Litermeter III with the exception for the moment of the ato which will soon be incorporated and also ran from the same device.....

DRThompson · 11/14/2013, 04:09 PM

Water comes in at the top of my canopy to a 1/2" pvc pipe. Then gravity feeds from the top of the pipe to the top of my display tank. This prevents me from dumping the entire contents of the raised barrel in my garage into my tank if the pump fails.

AquamanE · 11/14/2013, 04:09 PM

Very nice. Hope it woks out long term.

AquamanE · 11/14/2013, 04:14 PM

Question- Water evaporation is usually ~1% as well. Thats being addressed also right?

DRThompson · 11/14/2013, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AquamanE

Question- Water evaporation is usually ~1% as well. Thats being addressed also right?

ATO runs on the avast pressure switch and on a different pump. Right now i'm still running it with an aqua lifter from a container behind the display. Eventually, I'll put in a pump to move the water from the garage.

Just to be clear, the ATO is completely seperate and has nothing to do with this setup.

AquamanE · 11/14/2013, 05:58 PM

Excellent setup.

ide recomend fail switch methods for instances where either feedin or feedout of WC system would fail causing either too much or too little feed. Im sure Apex could handle this task. And im sure youve already thought of this Just a heads up

acesq · 11/14/2013, 11:18 PM

Great setup. Does each head of the pump pull precisely the same amount of water? Theoretically they should but in practice do they?

lighthouze08 · 11/15/2013, 03:34 PM

this looks awesome Dave, i'm doing the same thing as you but with a Cole Parmer Masterflex pump with 2 heads

AquamanE · 11/15/2013, 04:58 PM

Nice pumps guys.

Curious though: Why use these $$ pumps? Cant a LiterMeter do the same thing? Dont they also have the ability to add extra heads?

Considering something like this myself so curious.

DRThompson · 11/15/2013, 05:31 PM

Found the brand new stenner pump on a close out sale for $200 deliv incl. the liter meter would be more than that and would not be as consistent. The liter meter has to be calibrated periodically, the stenner and masterflex do not. The stenner pumps are much more robust, these are industrial pumps used to add chemicals to irrigation systems and pools. The masterflex pumps are similar but are used in labs and hospitals.

Today the stenner pump ran for 15 min every 4 hours and changed out 2 gal. Easiest water change I've ever made.

I'll keep watching the salinity to make sure it is as consistent as it looks, but so far I'm very happy with it

AquamanE · 11/15/2013, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRThompson

Found the brand new stenner pump on a close out sale for $200 deliv incl. the liter meter would be more than that and would not be as consistent. The liter meter has to be calibrated periodically, the stenner and masterflex do not. The stenner pumps are much more robust, these are industrial pumps used to add chemicals to irrigation systems and pools. The masterflex pumps are similar but are used in labs and hospitals.

Today the stenner pump ran for 15 min every 4 hours and changed out 2 gal. Easiest water change I've ever made.

I'll keep watching the salinity to make sure it is as consistent as it looks, but so far I'm very happy with it

PLEASE tell me where I can get one for $200. Even if im not ready ill get it!!!

mrx66699 · 11/15/2013, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRThompson

Found the brand new stenner pump on a close out sale for $200 deliv incl. the liter meter would be more than that and would not be as consistent. The liter meter has to be calibrated periodically, the stenner and masterflex do not. The stenner pumps are much more robust, these are industrial pumps used to add chemicals to irrigation systems and pools. The masterflex pumps are similar but are used in labs and hospitals.

Today the stenner pump ran for 15 min every 4 hours and changed out 2 gal. Easiest water change I've ever made.

I'll keep watching the salinity to make sure it is as consistent as it looks, but so far I'm very happy with it

Dave I was wondering about that also why you chose this route ......just wondering while yes this pump is $200, when you add another $100 that is needed to pay for an ato top off unit its not that far off in price actually very comparable in price.... I picked up the Litermeter III with the added top off remote pump in the used forum for $250 and it came with a 5 year warranty ....

DRThompson · 11/16/2013, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lighthouze08

this looks awesome Dave, i'm doing the same thing as you but with a Cole Parmer Masterflex pump with 2 heads

got any pics? Would like to see the setup when you have it up and running.

DRThompson · 11/16/2013, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AquamanE

PLEASE tell me where I can get one for $200. Even if im not ready ill get it!!!

bought mine from uswatersystems dot com. They had a closeout sale on a double head pump. Even though I bought it thru uswatersystems it was drop-shipped from the Stenner factory (in Jacksonville, fl) directly to my house. I'm assuming they have a deal with Stenner to help clear out overstocked items from time to time. Just checked, the listing is gone and they are now running "pre-thanksgiving" specials. The same pump "100dm4" is now $379! Guess I got a good deal

DRThompson · 11/16/2013, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrx66699

Dave I was wondering about that also why you chose this route ......just wondering while yes this pump is $200, when you add another $100 that is needed to pay for an ato top off unit its not that far off in price actually very comparable in price.... I picked up the Litermeter III with the added top off remote pump in the used forum for $250 and it came with a 5 year warranty ....

I checked out the liter meter, masterflex pumps and Stenner pumps for this project. Here's My thoughts on them

LiterMeter PRO's:

easiest to setup

designed for auto water changes

Best peristaltic pump in the industry (aquarium)

excellent customer service - read comments, blogs, recommendations from friends, Reef Central forum messages

Quietest of the 3 choices

LiterMeter Cons:
-more expensive new, though readily avail used at lower prices
-not apex compatible
-require periodic calibration for accuracy
-not designed for continuous use

Masterflex/Cole parmer PRO's

Would work with my apex

Would get the job done

Lab grade peristaltic pump! Top quality

Rated for continuous duty

My number 1 choice, money aside

no calibration needed, very accurate, consistant dosing

Masterflex/Cole Parmer Cons:
-The pumps that are available in the used market are OLD! Hard to find one that isnt at least 10 years old
-NO parts avail to repair the pump other than tubing and replacement heads
-Expensive! These pumps sell for thousands new, even the used ones can get to the $500 range for a double head variable speed
-Even the replacement tubing is expensive!
-noisy pumps

Stenner Pump PRO's:

Would work with my apex

Price

Rated for Continuous duty

Industrial pump, very robust, used for irrigation, pools and other water treatment applications

No calibration - Accurate, consistent dosing

Made in USA - ALL parts are completely replaceable!

Stenner Pump Cons:
-LOUD, probably the loudest of the 3 pumps
-bulky, heavy pump. would be hard to mount/use in tight space
-Hard to find a used pump

The Stenner pumps work best for my application. Apex compatibility was paramount, I'm an apex junky

All three pumps would get the job done and do what I wanted though.

Special thanks to Marvin for putting this project in my head

AquamanE · 11/16/2013, 06:47 PM

Dr- thanks for clarifying your choice, but how is it Apex compatible? Apex allows each plug on or off, thats it.

DRThompson · 11/16/2013, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AquamanE

Dr- thanks for clarifying your choice, but how is it Apex compatible? Apex allows each plug on or off, thats it.

Pretty much.....was really only a minus for the liter meter.....I dont like having multiple controllers for things. I'm just an apex junky

mrx66699 · 11/16/2013, 07:03 PM

lol nice Dave .....I like the writeup its very well looked at....

Sacohen · 11/16/2013, 08:14 PM

Interesting. I'm thinking of doing something similar. Tagging along.

acesq · 11/16/2013, 08:22 PM

Just ordered a Stenner. Not concerned about the noise since it will be in a separate sump room. What did it for me us that it takes out exactly the same amount of water it puts back in. No calibration necessary. Simple, and effective. And cheaper than the Renew system which was my other choice. I don't like the liter meter because of the necessity to calibrate the two separate pumps to be sure you are pulling out as much as you put in.

DRThompson · 11/16/2013, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acesq

Just ordered a Stenner. Not concerned about the noise since it will be in a separate sump room. What did it for me us that it takes out exactly the same amount of water it puts back in. No calibration necessary. Simple, and effective. And cheaper than the Renew system which was my other choice. I don't like the liter meter because of the necessity to calibrate the two separate pumps to be sure you are pulling out as much as you put in.

Please post a link to your build, would be interested to follow it.

AquamanE · 11/17/2013, 09:42 AM

Dr, now you and Matt have drawn me in. Im going to start planning this myself also.

Ide like to know more about pump options. My Apex sits in a closet behind my tank, many of you have seen it. I already have the plumbing to discard the water outside. So the pump will need to draw clean water from my garage, maybe 30 feet away, the waste will go from sump a few feet away and out my outdoor plumbing.

Pump options please.

DRThompson · 11/17/2013, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sacohen

Interesting. I'm thinking of doing something similar. Tagging along.

Your welcome to stop by and take a look, just pm me if interested

11/14/2013, 04:01 PM	#1
DRThompson 2018 FMAS President Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Coral Springs, Florida Posts: 2,082	automatic water change Thought I would document this and encourage questions/comments/suggestions. I'm working on setting up an automated water change at 1% per day (for me about 2 gallons) Ref: I'm referencing "Water Changes in Reef Aquaria" by Randy Holmes-Farley see link here http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/ Since my display tank is not on an exterior wall I've laid 3 lines of 1/4" tubing from my garage to my display tank thru the attic (each run is about 35 feet) Two of these lines go up to the top of my canopy (one carries ATO and the other carries the fresh saltwater). The 3rd line goes to my sump and will be the suction line for old DT water. The continuous water change will be implemented using a double-head Stenner pump (100DM4 model). It has an adjustable output of up to 35gal/day/head. I'll be running this thru my apex and figured I would stagger it 6 times a day for 14 min/run. __________________ dave Current Tank Info: 180gal mixed reef, asm g4xx, LED lights, apex, 65gal sump, 2x mp40's, methanol denitrator

11/14/2013, 04:04 PM	#2
DRThompson 2018 FMAS President Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Coral Springs, Florida Posts: 2,082	Here are some pics This is the double head Stenner pump.. Top head is freshwater from barrel to the top of the canopy bottom head is old water pulled from tank and then sent to a drain pipe in my attic __________________ dave Current Tank Info: 180gal mixed reef, asm g4xx, LED lights, apex, 65gal sump, 2x mp40's, methanol denitrator

11/14/2013, 04:05 PM	#3
mrx66699 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: ft. laud Posts: 5,994	Nice looking forward too your changes ....same way I set up my Litermeter III with the exception for the moment of the ato which will soon be incorporated and also ran from the same device..... __________________ Nano with a few dozen tangs. Life is the slowest form of suicide! Last edited by mrx66699; 11/14/2013 at 04:11 PM.

11/14/2013, 04:09 PM	#4
DRThompson 2018 FMAS President Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Coral Springs, Florida Posts: 2,082	Water comes in at the top of my canopy to a 1/2" pvc pipe. Then gravity feeds from the top of the pipe to the top of my display tank. This prevents me from dumping the entire contents of the raised barrel in my garage into my tank if the pump fails. __________________ dave Current Tank Info: 180gal mixed reef, asm g4xx, LED lights, apex, 65gal sump, 2x mp40's, methanol denitrator

11/14/2013, 04:09 PM	#5
AquamanE Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 6,544	Very nice. Hope it woks out long term. __________________ Eddie Soler FMAS BOD Member MACNA 2013 Chairman "I'd rather die living than live to die" Current Tank Info: 200G mixed reef with 60G sump, Radion LED’s , Bubble King skimmer, blah blah blah.

11/14/2013, 04:14 PM	#6
AquamanE Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 6,544	Question- Water evaporation is usually ~1% as well. Thats being addressed also right? __________________ Eddie Soler FMAS BOD Member MACNA 2013 Chairman "I'd rather die living than live to die" Current Tank Info: 200G mixed reef with 60G sump, Radion LED’s , Bubble King skimmer, blah blah blah.

11/14/2013, 05:58 PM	#8
AquamanE Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 6,544	Excellent setup. ide recomend fail switch methods for instances where either feedin or feedout of WC system would fail causing either too much or too little feed. Im sure Apex could handle this task. And im sure youve already thought of this Just a heads up __________________ Eddie Soler FMAS BOD Member MACNA 2013 Chairman "I'd rather die living than live to die" Current Tank Info: 200G mixed reef with 60G sump, Radion LED’s , Bubble King skimmer, blah blah blah.

11/14/2013, 11:18 PM	#9
acesq Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Calabasas, CA Posts: 1,501	Great setup. Does each head of the pump pull precisely the same amount of water? Theoretically they should but in practice do they? __________________ Current tank: 340g AGE peninsula

11/15/2013, 03:34 PM	#10
lighthouze08 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: VA Posts: 843	this looks awesome Dave, i'm doing the same thing as you but with a Cole Parmer Masterflex pump with 2 heads __________________ _____________

11/15/2013, 04:58 PM	#11
AquamanE Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 6,544	Nice pumps guys. Curious though: Why use these $$ pumps? Cant a LiterMeter do the same thing? Dont they also have the ability to add extra heads? Considering something like this myself so curious. __________________ Eddie Soler FMAS BOD Member MACNA 2013 Chairman "I'd rather die living than live to die" Current Tank Info: 200G mixed reef with 60G sump, Radion LED’s , Bubble King skimmer, blah blah blah.

11/15/2013, 05:31 PM	#12
DRThompson 2018 FMAS President Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Coral Springs, Florida Posts: 2,082	Found the brand new stenner pump on a close out sale for $200 deliv incl. the liter meter would be more than that and would not be as consistent. The liter meter has to be calibrated periodically, the stenner and masterflex do not. The stenner pumps are much more robust, these are industrial pumps used to add chemicals to irrigation systems and pools. The masterflex pumps are similar but are used in labs and hospitals. Today the stenner pump ran for 15 min every 4 hours and changed out 2 gal. Easiest water change I've ever made. I'll keep watching the salinity to make sure it is as consistent as it looks, but so far I'm very happy with it __________________ dave Current Tank Info: 180gal mixed reef, asm g4xx, LED lights, apex, 65gal sump, 2x mp40's, methanol denitrator

11/16/2013, 06:47 PM	#18
AquamanE Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 6,544	Dr- thanks for clarifying your choice, but how is it Apex compatible? Apex allows each plug on or off, thats it. __________________ Eddie Soler FMAS BOD Member MACNA 2013 Chairman "I'd rather die living than live to die" Current Tank Info: 200G mixed reef with 60G sump, Radion LED’s , Bubble King skimmer, blah blah blah.

11/16/2013, 07:03 PM	#20
mrx66699 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: ft. laud Posts: 5,994	lol nice Dave .....I like the writeup its very well looked at.... __________________ Nano with a few dozen tangs. Life is the slowest form of suicide!

11/16/2013, 08:14 PM	#21
Sacohen Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Davie, FL Posts: 1,778	Interesting. I'm thinking of doing something similar. Tagging along. __________________ Steve Current Tank Info: 55 Gallon Mixed Reef

11/16/2013, 08:22 PM	#22
acesq Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Calabasas, CA Posts: 1,501	Just ordered a Stenner. Not concerned about the noise since it will be in a separate sump room. What did it for me us that it takes out exactly the same amount of water it puts back in. No calibration necessary. Simple, and effective. And cheaper than the Renew system which was my other choice. I don't like the liter meter because of the necessity to calibrate the two separate pumps to be sure you are pulling out as much as you put in. __________________ Current tank: 340g AGE peninsula

11/17/2013, 09:42 AM	#24
AquamanE Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 6,544	Dr, now you and Matt have drawn me in. Im going to start planning this myself also. Ide like to know more about pump options. My Apex sits in a closet behind my tank, many of you have seen it. I already have the plumbing to discard the water outside. So the pump will need to draw clean water from my garage, maybe 30 feet away, the waste will go from sump a few feet away and out my outdoor plumbing. Pump options please. __________________ Eddie Soler FMAS BOD Member MACNA 2013 Chairman "I'd rather die living than live to die" Current Tank Info: 200G mixed reef with 60G sump, Radion LED’s , Bubble King skimmer, blah blah blah.