Coral Growth Rates / Estimates

[vbsaltydog]

In an effort to get the ball rolling...

Purple Haze Monti
1/2" full diameter growth over 60 days
Medium water flow
10" water depth
5" offset from 250w 14k phoenix MH and 2 54w actinic T5s
total distance from lights 27" (lights 12" from water, coral 10" underwater, corals 5" offset to the left from MH bulb).
target feed coral frenzy a few times a week.

[TiTAN]

Great Start, do you have pics that document this growth?

[vbsaltydog]

I lost the mini usb cable for my camera so while I can take a picture, I can't get the pic from the camera to the computer for the time being.

[Salamander]

I don't know how much benefit so much info would be in determining growth rates.

I think the easier and way to do it is just a general classification from people's experiences.

Slow, moderate, fast and fastest.

A few comparisons from my tank. But even with all things equal growth rates fluctuate. Here are just a few to start from my experience.

Fastest
GSP
Anthelia
xenia
Sarcophyton

Fast
Montipora digitata
Montipora capricornus
Acropora micropthalma
Acropora millepora
Acropora youngei
Poccilopora damicornis
Seriatopora
Stylophora
Palythoa
Zoanthids
Nepthea

Moderate
Acropora Valida
Caulastrea sp.
Echinophyllia
Non-photosynthetic gorgonians
Sinularia
Capnella
Lamnella
Actinodiscus (but explode on occasion)
Rhodactis (but explode on occasion)
Ricordea

Slow
Acropora tortuosa
Favia sp.
Favites sp.
Hydnophora rigida
Encrusting montipora
Merulina ampliata
Pavona sp.
Trachyphyllia geoffroyi
Euphyllia sp.
Isaurus

[Tigre9]

This thread was not created to just get fast and slow as a growth rate that a text book already gives. If you look at the previous reply with a good suggestion for a start actually will be great in the long run.

Coral ID:
Coral Size:
Lighting:
Water Flow:
Water Parameters:

The Water depth was a great addition and placement. Thanks everyone for helping out. Even the list given with fast or slow and groups will be used. I just want to keep this as simple as possible with measurements included.

I'm so happy to get some raw data after several months from my first posting this thread.

Thanks!

[tecsavi]

Tagging along. Very interesting.

[jbrown11352]

I just added 33 frags to my 48 x 30 x 16 frag tank today and another 21 in 2 weeks for a total of about 70 and I will update monthly. Looking forward to this info from others as well.

[TiTAN]

Looking forward to see the pics as they grow.

[tecsavi]

I would think you would need to add other pretty important tank varibles like basic water chemistry and tank volume as well. Another issue is proper identification of the coral itself which will skew the results. Don't get me wrong I think it is a great idea, just trying to improve opon the concept.

Really in the end you are most likely going to have a result like salamander has posted. With all of the variables you will have to have a general growth rate average but you will have an average none the less. The alternative is a database similar but far more complex to Sanjay's lighting database where you can modify a huge amount of variables to see the results.

Who will be the lucky person to host this database and set up the queries for data mining?...lol

[vbsaltydog]

I could setup a database and web forms to allow users to enter their info into the db. I could setup a search engine for the db too but RC will have to agree not to close the thread or remove the links to the site where the db is hosted otherwise my work would be for nothing.

[TiTAN]

I am looking at setting up coralgrowthrate.thereefshed.com in a blog style where each person has his\her own login to update his/hers coral with Specs etc...

What does everyone think?

[vbsaltydog]

With respect, how does that differ from a thread on RC for your coral and posts to report it's growth rate?

I think the goal here is to have a large database of parameters and corals. Then you can use the db to do things like:

(1) Find the best corals for growing under parameters that match your own.
(2) Find the fastest growing corals, examine common denominators in the parameters for them, and design a system that matches the common denominators.
(3) Examine the parameters that have the best reported success for a specific type of coral (zoas, acros, lps, etc) if you intend to build a "dominated" tank and then build your tank to match the averages of the reported results to improve your chances of growing coral x in your coral x dominated tank.

Stuff like that. While a blog is good for reading, it does not provide the ability to crunch the numbers to get averages for specific scenarios or to find exact data to match specific queries across multiple user entries.

[TiTAN]

Originally Posted by vbsaltydog

With respect, how does that differ from a thread on RC for your coral and posts to report it's growth rate?

I think the goal here is to have a large database of parameters and corals. Then you can use the db to do things like:

(1) Find the best corals for growing under parameters that match your own.
(2) Find the fastest growing corals, examine common denominators in the parameters for them, and design a system that matches the common denominators.
(3) Examine the parameters that have the best reported success for a specific type of coral (zoas, acros, lps, etc) if you intend to build a "dominated" tank and then build your tank to match the averages of the reported results to improve your chances of growing coral x in your coral x dominated tank.

Stuff like that. While a blog is good for reading, it does not provide the ability to crunch the numbers to get averages for specific scenarios or to find exact data to match specific queries across multiple user entries.

I get your point, a very good one at that. My point of the blog is to view/document the progress of each Coral. Also the blog will be a collection of everyone's efforts.

If you can build it I will host it.

[vbsaltydog]

I can build it and I have my own servers so I could host it as well and it would be easier for me since I have root access to the server. The problem still stands that once it is up and running, RC will not allow any links to it, so how would people know to find it.

We are talking about a lot of work and I would have to know that it would be accessible without my needing to do tons of SEO or buying ad space on forums.

[tecsavi]

saltydog - I really like your concept of corals matched to parameters and vice versa. You are right this is an incredible amount of work on your part.

Is there a reason why reef central won't allow external links? I am envisioning something very similar to Sanjay's lighting database that is linked on the manhattanreef site. I would thing it would be a huge resource that would bring in more users to reef central = more advertising dollars.

[vbsaltydog]

Perhaps an RC mod or Admin can chime in and answer this?

[daniel89]

im glad to say that soon as i pick up another test kit to test calcium and all that good stuff i shall be adding data to this as i just started my 125g reef and im starting with frags so i should be giving some good data :O

[Salamander]

I applaud your efforts and ideas. It would be some great info.

But I think you're thinking too big. IMO it needs to be kept simple. Please don't feel I'm dogging your ideas...I want you to succeed. It would be useful information.

The people you are soliciting info from (most of us) are hobbyists. We don't run our tanks in a laboratory setting and don't use lab grade test kits, nor test every parameter continuously. There is way too much room for variability in the information you seek, not to mention the plethora of other variables we don't or can't account for. The compounding error could result in a pile of useless data.

Before you invest too much time into this, I think it needs to be simplified with as few variables as possible in order to be successful.

I want to see some good info you can gather and I'm willing to contribute more, but I'd like to see your efforts be successful and provide accurate, relevant and useful info on the simplest level.

Again, please don't take my comments as an attack. I want to see it work and hope my comments might help refine your ideas. After all I'm following this thread because I'm interested and would like to see it succeed.

[Salamander]

Originally Posted by tecsavi

saltydog - I am envisioning something very similar to Sanjay's lighting database

While I think Sanjay's database is great and a wealth of detailed information....Its not nearly as complex as what's proposed here so far.

[Tigre9]

Originally Posted by jbrown11352

I just added 33 frags to my 48 x 30 x 16 frag tank today and another 21 in 2 weeks for a total of about 70 and I will update monthly. Looking forward to this info from others as well.

Really looking forward to the information you will be able to provide, pictures would be great to provide information like placement and locality of the corals next to each other.

Again, I can't wait to hear back. Thanks!

[Tigre9]

Well, after several months there has not been much in the way of information from anyone that would help further this post. Therefor I will add what I have found in a simple way through free sources.

I have done some research, a lot of reading and some talking to store owners regarding the availability of growth rates or data. So far it comes down to the fact that the distributors have the information and no one wants to tell. Even people that have replied to this thread have given many reasons it can't be done.....

Well, I would like to start by proving this theory incorrect!

My luck, the "Reef Hobbyist Magazine" (Free) - Second Quarter 2010 / Volumne 4 give the exact information I was looking for right currently (also related to the big picture I presented with this post in the beginning). The article regarding RBTA's and the surgical cloning of the Bubble Tip Anemone was great. It may not tell how long it takes to grow to specific sizes, but it does state that after surgical cloning Day 1 placed in basket, Day 2 (8hrs later) clones opened up, Day 3 cut still visible but healing, and Day 5 almost completely healed. (around 1 week for clone to heal)

As I previously state, I have spoken with several owners and 1 that was cloning without surgical means that have confirmed that they generally heal in about 1 week. The size they grow to relies primarily on freeding and lighting. I have been able to study my GBTA in my 55 propagation tank for this past two weeks, it seems that the 1st week there was more aclimation than any growth and feeding was difficult. The 2nd week I have been able to feed easier with the enriched Brine shrimp (frozen) - rather than the pieces of frozen shrimp from the fridge that the GBTA did not accept the first week.

I believe that I can clone a RBTA in 2 or 4 and heal in a week +, then with in 30 days it would be of good size and health. YouTube has wonderfull video of the process and was part of my inspiration with starting this adventure.

Any stories related to growth and propagation would be welcomed, so that in the future we do not have to spend so much time to maintain our reefs and the overgrowth that may hinder the health of tanks!

Thank You for all that can be provided.

[Tigre9]

I have found the following Post that has some interesting information about growth also. It was under general interest forums and Reef Discussion.

"How to FEED your reef tank so that your corals will really GROW, instead of ho-hum..."

[Ohio]

I have just set up a reef tank, about three months old. I have been running t5 ho lights and have not noticed any growth on my corals. I purchased a 250 w mh, which was only on for 4hrs the first day(with screens in place to acclimate) before the light blew, I have already noticed some visible growth. Zoanthia and pulse coral -1 addtl polyp grew on each from just that time frame. Moderate water flow, 1.025, 78f to 80f, bad stuff -including nitrates at zero, both drags are approximately 14in from the light.

I will be following this thread and posting as I have more to add. Unfortunately, I do not have much in my tank yet. I am waiting on the CORA fragswap to load up on frags.

I hope you get more responses, it is very clear that growth is impacted by a wide variety of things. But surely, with the number of users on RC, data can be compiled where parameters, lighting, etc are similar and an average gr can be obtained. Especially since several have voluntered to compile and host.

My opinion -just post what you have and let them determine how/whether to use it.

I am not sure how much help this will be, but I figured I would let you decide whether useful.

[Tigre9]

Thanks for the information you provided, it is all helpfull in helping to complete a lists of general information regarding growth. I actually grew up in Ohio and moved to Tennessee in 1997, maybe I will get back up there sooner or later.

I worked at a local Pet store and took care of the Salt Water fish, there were no corals but I was able to learn alot back then that helped get me started several years ago.

Please post more when available!

Thanks

[Tigre9]

Any additional coral growth information welcome, please tell about your experiences. Especially any data or just simple information regarding bubble tip anemones, mushrooms and any LPS or SPS corals. Tell us about your corrals!!!