pico reef pest algae problem challenge

[brandon429]

You know Simon its just anyone's guess until we get someone to actually run some work to see. you make me want to try and test that theory about re released N and P with at least something simple

find some distilled water that does not register phosphate (some does). rip out a huge portion of reef green hair algae/whatever genus and treat it with peroxide, then rinse it really really well after treatment before its started to degrade. tiny animals/detrital stores/epibenthics on the algae might be phosphate contaminants for the test ideally the algae should be clean so that we are testing the internal stores

have a control cup of the same water untreated

as the algae dies in the treated cup, test the water for phosphate and nitrate, I predict none will show.

Its not that I think algae doesn't include N and P, its just debatable whether or not thats in soluble forms as the plant matrix breaks down and how much we are talking about initially inside the algae. so, we should measure it to see at least w a simple test for starters.

Im sure someone has done dessication and dry weight analysis of algae X major consituent ratios, perhaps some googling will tell

additionally it always seemed to me ridiculous to pointfully remove some dying plant mass while we inject meat mass into our tanks via feed. thats a huge amount of N and P coming in and just a tiny amount exported, even if the algae does release its N and P it pales in comparison to the continuity of input at least thats my guess.

That guess is partly fueled by the fact most of the algae treaters on the nano reef forum simply let it die in the tank. And their tank looks great now, and they've used peroxide as spot treats when needed. none of that loop indicated decaying algae being a significant source of N and P anyway...

[jimrawr]

Here are before and after picks

[brandon429]

Sharp photos thats excellent~! Its so clean it looks like it never had any growth. Im curious did you have to prune it off or did it die and fall off the rock that clean

[KafudaFish]

Maybe this one will show up better:

[brandon429]

Just updating when I find more threads w pics before and after! shows the power of peroxide on another forum, good pics
http://www.maast.org/showthread.php?...using-Peroxide

[Caetano_Thiago]

so i gave it a shot on a rock that i had in my nano. i went with the spot treatment. pulled a rock out. gave a few drips in the affected areas. im on day 2. and so far it looks pretty effective. ill post pictures as soon as i can

this picture is after 24hrs
a majority of the gha has died off, you can barely even see it



what i want to know is would it work on these lil pests?


looks like i found a new use for peroxide lol keep up the good work guys, as i get further into playing around with this stuff ill deff keep posting


here is the 48hr pic just took it during my lunch


they have been poping up in my tank. i will let you know when i dose next the result

[brandon429]

Thank you so much for posting that rocks!

[rennne39]

I would like to know can I dose a whole tank I have a 150 and the whole tank is taken over with it

[brandon429]

ideally we need to have a full tank shot first, and a few back and forths about whats in the tank as far as inverts and macroalgae. we know pretty much all corals that will be affected by tankwide dosing unless there are some out of bounds ones like rhizotrochus (no one's dosed with those yet) and much of the nepthids and leathers haven't been tested in systemic dosing yet. Xenias are known susceptible to peroxide. so with a tankwide shot we can make sound predictions on how it will work before we start

the usual dose is about 1ml per 10 gallons once a day for a few days, a nice large water change, then wait the rest of the week to chart the dieoff. repeat next week. whole process about two weeks or less for a massive dieoff of the target.

Any rocks that can be lifted out and externally treated will be quickly cured.

There are other variants like still dosing, where you turn the pumps off and lower in a syringe of peroxide into the tank and inject the peroxide, underwater, right into the base of a clump of algae. This concentrates your systemic dosage right into a target group and lets you get away with less overall peroxide addition, or to keep it away from a possibly sensitive coral etc

all that we can guesstimate with a full tank shot and a few closeups of the target rocks or pm me the pics

[brandon429]

also it appears raising your magnesium during treatment shows resounding success in algae/pest management. I know tanks running nearly twice as much mg as you are showing

[Caetano_Thiago]

So I drained my tank and did a second set of spot treatment, another pain on my back is now slowing dying, more pics tomorrow

[brandon429]

looks sharp!! How cool is that, no other method is as fast or as thorough. Clean up crews sleep on the job, I don't even use them or recommend them at all. Of course they are part of a natural reef, but whats natural about a nano tank lol or even a bigger reef

I only wanted what produced results with the least effort and most predictability. a drained spot treatment works on every tank, all the time, even though absolutes in positive outcome are hard to come by in this hobby. I still offer this thread around to the upper forums and other sites as a direct challenge to find an algae peroxide can't beat.

most of the time I think they think Im crazy for the recommend...until they see these before and after pics. another one bites the dust!~

[brandon429]

that pic is particularly helpful as it shows xenia right next to a treated spot unaffected by the drain and treat approach

[rennne39]

Originally Posted by brandon429

ideally we need to have a full tank shot first, and a few back and forths about whats in the tank as far as inverts and macroalgae. we know pretty much all corals that will be affected by tankwide dosing unless there are some out of bounds ones like rhizotrochus (no one's dosed with those yet) and much of the nepthids and leathers haven't been tested in systemic dosing yet. Xenias are known susceptible to peroxide. so with a tankwide shot we can make sound predictions on how it will work before we start

the usual dose is about 1ml per 10 gallons once a day for a few days, a nice large water change, then wait the rest of the week to chart the dieoff. repeat next week. whole process about two weeks or less for a massive dieoff of the target.

Any rocks that can be lifted out and externally treated will be quickly cured.

There are other variants like still dosing, where you turn the pumps off and lower in a syringe of peroxide into the tank and inject the peroxide, underwater, right into the base of a clump of algae. This concentrates your systemic dosage right into a target group and lets you get away with less overall peroxide addition, or to keep it away from a possibly sensitive coral etc

all that we can guesstimate with a full tank shot and a few closeups of the target rocks or pm me the pics

here is the pictures of my tank

the left side

the middle side

the bottom

[Caetano_Thiago]

I just wish I had a better Camera, instead ofjust my phone, btw during the spot treat to that area,I had two sexy shrimp also hanging around that rock the entire time

[brandon429]

at least there's enough diversity in treatment between this thread and the one linked to nano reefs that even if pics don't show your target areas perfectly you can see a similar problem in someone elses tank and treat accordingly

I didnt know of any sexy shrimp treatments thats a helpful first...will need a few more runs on other tanks with them to establish the same predictability we can with lysmata

renne39 something that stands out in your pics is you are acting before a big take over occurs, not after. the situation doesnt look that bad at all but a few quick questions as we tune the approach

what is that clown hosting in


and are you dosing iodine in any way other than the feed that goes in the tank


It apears some degree of the tinting/target you want gone is on the glass and on the top 1/3 areas on the rock. can you do a closeup shot of any particular areas, your worst ones

Depending on what you have in the tank we can proceed with a conservative approach, no rush. lets kill a couple spots at a time thoroughly, in a way that uses the least peroxide then each subtreatment will be very negligible on the overall tank, cumulatively it will add up to a really clean tank.

Can you give a list of all corals and marine shrimp/crabs you have stocked

any anemones

if there are no known sensitives, Id drain that tank down 1/3 of the way for a big water change. If you don't want to change all the water, put some of your old back in but the point is we want to spot treat when and where possible.

When any target area of your tank/glass walls are exposed during the water change, use a paper towel dampened w peroxide to wipe down the glass areas and crevices in the upper corners where scum or algae may reside. you can have a spray bottle of peroxide prepped/cleaned and ready and while the rock surface is exposed spray just one pump on a given target, wait about two mins then refill the tank. Those targets will show marked or total reduction in 24 hours.

so after the tank listing of everything you've paid $$ to stock thats what I am sure will clean your tank. Then use great water param control to lessen your retreatments, this is an ace of spades to let you start over with great water control and more standard manual removal such as algae scraping and maybe using GFO if not already

[rennne39]

Originally Posted by brandon429

renne39 something that stands out in your pics is you are acting before a big take over occurs, not after. the situation doesnt look that bad at all but a few quick questions as we tune the approach

what is that clown hosting in
a flower pot


and are you dosing iodine in any way other than the feed that goes in the tank
no I am not


It apears some degree of the tinting/target you want gone is on the glass and on the top 1/3 areas on the rock. can you do a closeup shot of any particular areas, your worst ones
here are the close ups







Depending on what you have in the tank we can proceed with a conservative approach, no rush. lets kill a couple spots at a time thoroughly, in a way that uses the least peroxide then each subtreatment will be very negligible on the overall tank, cumulatively it will add up to a really clean tank.

Can you give a list of all corals and marine shrimp/crabs you have stocked

clown-fish anemone-fish 3
prickly leather-jacket 1
chromis 4
yellow-watchman goby 1
sixline wrasse 1
pajama caedinalfish 1
sailfin tang 1
torch coral 3
leather corals 3
mushrooms 20

any anemones
their is no anemones in the tank

[brandon429]

those pics show quite a bit of access to the rocks directly without having to add to the tank

if it were mine Id do the easiest rocks first, some of those on top that can be lifted out. take one out and apply the peroxide to the target areas, around but not on the corals, let sit outside for just 30 seconds or so (wont hurt the corals I leave my tank drained far longer) then rinse and reinstall it will die back very fast.

if you went around the tank accessing any rocks that could be lifted out, or working a 1/3 drain of the tank to access major spots thats for sure the safest. We can research other full tank dosing options while using safe spot treats to kill those parts back. I still say we wait to do full tank dosing until you've done all removable rocks just my opinion... thanks for posting though with the good feedback it helps the thread with diverse pest treatments.

[rennne39]

ok I will do that starting tomorrow thanks for the help, and I will post pictures in a couple of days

[biecacka]

before.....ill take an after pic as its clean as a whistle now!!
one question tho, to dip larger rocks can i mix the peroxide with water and if so what ratio
corey

[brandon429]

I am soooo happy you posted this cant wait for pics. I saw this algae shot yesterday in the Chem forum and was really hoping youd do peroxide, it will completely fix your problem and allow you to start fresh with a cleaner nutrient management approach.

No method beats peroxide for cleaning a tank so far, and -preventing- algae outbreaks. Nutrient management simply reduces the amount of time we spend manually removing. Manual removal is the 2012 method of removing algae, and peroxide is the way until a better way is shown. Really thanks for posting, Im working on a new article about algae management that does not rehash the same info we've all been told for the last decade and this thread and others are supporting info

[brandon429]

if you can't spot treat with full 3%, which is ideal and doesn't affect live rock benthic life, then a 50 50 dip is used for these extreme situations

[biecacka]

harmful to leathers????

same pump.........

a few other shots to show how bad the infestation was. i got some rock(that had GHA on it and i was aware of it) from a local guy an thought i got it all off. well bad lights, skimmer too low among other things this is what i got........im currently removing some rock to dip and scrubbing other rock with a shop vac that has a bristle brush on it

[biecacka]

now you see why i was asking about a "full system dip"
lol
corey

[brandon429]

yeppers that bad boy was pretty rough. it could likely take a few treatments lol but it will zap it in time. Im wondering if your rock is made of pure phosphate