ATO, Why do people even need a ATO switch?

fixingstill · 03/25/2017, 09:29 AM

ATO, Why do people even need a ATO switch?

I use a small power head to pump kalkwasser RO water to an adjustable float valve installed in the return pump baffle. I also installed a dual float switch there to watch the min and max water level. I also have a float switch at the bottom of the kalkwasser reservoir to watch when the water is used up. Then I use Apex programming to turn it on one minute every hr. If water is at the right level, the float valve would not even open. When the salinity is less than 33, it is turned on too.

Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Time 00:00 to 00:01 Then ON
If Time 01:00 to 01:01 Then ON
If Time 02:00 to 02:01 Then ON
If Time 03:00 to 03:01 Then ON
If Time 04:00 to 04:01 Then ON
If Time 05:00 to 05:01 Then ON
If Time 06:00 to 06:01 Then ON
If Time 07:00 to 07:01 Then ON
If Time 08:00 to 08:01 Then ON
If Time 09:00 to 09:01 Then ON
If Time 10:00 to 10:01 Then ON
If Time 11:00 to 11:01 Then ON
If Time 12:00 to 12:01 Then ON
If Time 13:00 to 13:01 Then ON
If Time 14:00 to 14:01 Then ON
If Time 15:00 to 15:01 Then ON
If Time 16:00 to 16:01 Then ON
If Time 17:00 to 17:01 Then ON
If Time 18:00 to 18:01 Then ON
If Time 19:00 to 19:01 Then ON
If Time 20:00 to 20:01 Then ON
If Time 21:00 to 21:01 Then ON
If Time 22:00 to 22:01 Then ON
If Time 23:00 to 23:01 Then ON
If Output EMERGENCY = ON Then OFF
If Output ATO-LOW = ON Then OFF
If Salt < 33.0 Then OFF

abrooks12376 · 03/25/2017, 09:41 AM

Need a switch if you don't have a controller

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ca1ore · 03/25/2017, 09:41 AM

Really not sure of your point. You ask why does one need a switch and then proceed to describe your approach using three switches

. There are lots of ways to configure an ATO. Yours seems overly convoluted to me. Evaporation in my system varies quite a bit by season (and ambient humidity). But if it works for you .......

fixingstill · 03/25/2017, 09:45 AM

Right. With Apex, you don't need a ATO switch (Tunze, etc). And you can integrate it with apex control.
I guess I am not woken up yet.

henryle · 03/25/2017, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fixingstill

ATO, Why do people even need a ATO switch?

I use a small power head to pump kalkwasser RO water to an adjustable float valve installed in the return pump baffle. I also installed a dual float switch there to watch the min and max water level. I also have a float switch at the bottom of the kalkwasser reservoir to watch when the water is used up. Then I use Apex programming to turn it on one minute every hr. If water is at the right level, the float valve would not even open. When the salinity is less than 33, it is turned on too.

Fallback OFF

Set OFF

If Time 00:00 to 00:01 Then ON

If Time 01:00 to 01:01 Then ON

If Time 02:00 to 02:01 Then ON

If Time 03:00 to 03:01 Then ON

If Time 04:00 to 04:01 Then ON

If Time 05:00 to 05:01 Then ON

If Time 06:00 to 06:01 Then ON

If Time 07:00 to 07:01 Then ON

If Time 08:00 to 08:01 Then ON

If Time 09:00 to 09:01 Then ON

If Time 10:00 to 10:01 Then ON

If Time 11:00 to 11:01 Then ON

If Time 12:00 to 12:01 Then ON

If Time 13:00 to 13:01 Then ON

If Time 14:00 to 14:01 Then ON

If Time 15:00 to 15:01 Then ON

If Time 16:00 to 16:01 Then ON

If Time 17:00 to 17:01 Then ON

If Time 18:00 to 18:01 Then ON

If Time 19:00 to 19:01 Then ON

If Time 20:00 to 20:01 Then ON

If Time 21:00 to 21:01 Then ON

If Time 22:00 to 22:01 Then ON

If Time 23:00 to 23:01 Then ON

If Output EMERGENCY = ON Then OFF

If Output ATO-LOW = ON Then OFF

If Salt < 33.0 Then OFF

How come you have it set to turn on 1 min every hour? Is it because you just know how much evaporation you have?

If you have it timed well and you know your evaporation rate, I see why there's no use for the float switch. I didn't bother timing my evaporation and just used the switch like it was designed to be used.

Just curious to see if I can improve my system lol

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tenurepro · 03/25/2017, 10:49 AM

As a fail safe - in case your Apex loses connection. I use the apex to turn on / off tunze ato for water changes / feedings, and to tell me if salinity is off. It is good to have redundancy

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fixingstill · 03/25/2017, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henryle

How come you have it set to turn on 1 min every hour? Is it because you just know how much evaporation you have?

If you have it timed well and you know your evaporation rate, I see why there's no use for the float switch. I didn't bother timing my evaporation and just used the switch like it was designed to be used.

Just curious to see if I can improve my system lol

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

One min every hr or 5 min every whatever hrs really doesn't matter. If water level is right, the float switch doesn't even open. I don't know the evaporation rate. I know I need to put in 1 gallon of freshly mixed saltwater every time I do drip acclimation. Other RO will be pumped into the tank when saltwater drips out.

henryle · 03/25/2017, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fixingstill

One min every hr or 5 min every whatever hrs really doesn't matter. If water level is right, the float switch doesn't even open. I don't know the evaporation rate. I know I need to put in 1 gallon of freshly mixed saltwater every time I do drip acclimation. Other RO will be pumped into the tank when saltwater drips out.

OHHH, your pump goes into a float valve also. I missed that part.

I use a float switch in place of a float valve. My ATO is an open line. People don't trust the mechanical movement of a float valve as much so they trust a float switch instead. If a snail or something like a rock causes your valve to stay open, then the float valve has failed you.

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Optionman · 03/26/2017, 05:29 AM

1 branch of my RODI line runs directly to my sump, connected to a float valve I used this method without any failsafe for months until I installed an apex to control CArx. I then spliced a solenoid valve into the RODI/ATO line and programmed the apex to shut off the line if power is lost and/or if sump water level rises and triggers either of 2 leak detectors located slightly above normal sump water level.

Works great.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

skeeter_ca · 03/26/2017, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Optionman

1 branch of my RODI line runs directly to my sump, connected to a float valve I used this method without any failsafe for months until I installed an apex to control CArx. I then spliced a solenoid valve into the RODI/ATO line and programmed the apex to shut off the line if power is lost and/or if sump water level rises and triggers either of 2 leak detectors located slightly above normal sump water level.

Works great.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Can you say TDS creep?

skeeter

fixingstill · 03/26/2017, 09:53 AM

Right, Apex gives us some much automated control.
The TDS could be high first 1 min or so every time you turn on the RO thou.
Add a small RO tank might help.

Optionman · 03/26/2017, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skeeter_ca

Can you say TDS creep?

skeeter

My reef at 12 months. Only run CArx, skimmer, and bagged carbon in sump. I have coral growth everywhere, coralline algae everywhere including interior skimmer and sump walls, and no meaningful other nuisance algae. My tank has always run Alk between 10-11, CA around 450, minimal nitrate last time tested, but phosphate of .5.
No idea TDS.

2D249C3E-5C16-4E77-9508-D91AFAF0DBE0.jpg 28D23D3D-B89E-4259-BC82-C38D2F9C96EA.jpg 2FDD4717-5142-43FD-AEB6-7A72C0842009.JPG

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skeeter_ca · 03/27/2017, 10:37 AM

You can't measure (TDS) Total Dissolved Solids in your reef tank. It's for measuring the purity of your R/O DI water. Every time your R/O DI machine turns on the first bit of water is very high in TDS, 150ppm+. It then goes down rapidly to around 10ppm or less depending on how well your R/O membrane is working. Then it goes through the DI resin to come out as 0ppm. If you don't run the first part of the water out through a discharge line before it goes into the DI resin, the resin gets used up a lot quicker and when it gets used up then the TDS goes straight into your tank or reservoir. If the R/O is constantly being turned off and on for short cycles for top-off it can use up the resin real quick. This is the reason most people use a R/O DI water reservoir. You turn on the R/O di unit when the reservoir gets low and a float valve in the reservoir shuts it off when full and gives you time to get back to it to shut the R/O unit off. A dual sensor TDS meter is inexpensive. You put one sensor before the DI canister and the other after it.

Just something to consider.

skeeter

skeeter_ca · 03/27/2017, 10:39 AM

BTW Optionman, nice tank.

fixingstill · 03/27/2017, 11:02 AM

skeeter_ca, thanks for the info.

Elricsfate · 03/27/2017, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ca1ore

Really not sure of your point. You ask why does one need a switch and then proceed to describe your approach using three switches

. There are lots of ways to configure an ATO. Yours seems overly convoluted to me. Evaporation in my system varies quite a bit by season (and ambient humidity). But if it works for you .......

Agreed!

I always love when people come up with a 37 step process to avoid spending a few bucks. lol

Why do I need an ATO switch? Because Tunze monitors water, and I monitor networks. I don't ask them to do my job, and I don't try to do theirs.

Install a couple of parts, put the lid on, and walk away. Done. And though I have an Apex, I didn't waste three days trying to figure out how to hook it all together. The thing comes with its own controller...and I used it. Put the sensor where you want the water, and plug it in. Can't get any more simple than that.

ktownhero · 03/27/2017, 11:35 AM

You asked why people use a switch and then described your method of using a switch. I'm not clear on your point or question?

fixingstill · 03/27/2017, 11:35 AM

Can your ATO "controller" watch the salinity and stop pumping RO when salinity is already low? Or when your ATO reservoir level is low? Or where you need to ask your wife to press the emergency panic button (mine hooks up to the breakout box) when water is on the floor? I prefer full integration with one powerful and flexible controller that oversees everything.

I guess the title should have been "No need for an ATO controller when you have Apex controller. "
Just wanted to share info...

mkj · 03/27/2017, 02:35 PM

yep, your title should say "why use one ATO switch when you should be using multiple".

There are many ways to skin a cat. All work just fine at the end. I prefer Reefangel to Apex. I can program it to do things Apex only dreams of. but that's another thread. It really comes down to how much you like playing with controllers/monitors or just want plug and play. M2C

ca1ore · 03/27/2017, 02:52 PM

Of course there's no need for a standalone ATO when you have an Apex - was that really your point? Though, something like the avast can be configured as either a standalone ATO or integrated to Apex.

Buckeye Hydro · 04/02/2017, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skeeter_ca

Can you say TDS creep?

skeeter

That's the first thing that came to my mind as well. Always best to avoid short-cycling an RO or RODI system.

Russ

MrGuy · 04/02/2017, 04:35 PM

I use a float switch and it works fine. Float switch $9.00 for pack of 5. $15.00 for pump. $bucket costs nothing.

Apex controller $800.00

I guess I can really see my problem here. thanks!

03/25/2017, 09:29 AM	#1
fixingstill Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 249	ATO, Why do people even need a ATO switch? ATO, Why do people even need a ATO switch? I use a small power head to pump kalkwasser RO water to an adjustable float valve installed in the return pump baffle. I also installed a dual float switch there to watch the min and max water level. I also have a float switch at the bottom of the kalkwasser reservoir to watch when the water is used up. Then I use Apex programming to turn it on one minute every hr. If water is at the right level, the float valve would not even open. When the salinity is less than 33, it is turned on too. Fallback OFF Set OFF If Time 00:00 to 00:01 Then ON If Time 01:00 to 01:01 Then ON If Time 02:00 to 02:01 Then ON If Time 03:00 to 03:01 Then ON If Time 04:00 to 04:01 Then ON If Time 05:00 to 05:01 Then ON If Time 06:00 to 06:01 Then ON If Time 07:00 to 07:01 Then ON If Time 08:00 to 08:01 Then ON If Time 09:00 to 09:01 Then ON If Time 10:00 to 10:01 Then ON If Time 11:00 to 11:01 Then ON If Time 12:00 to 12:01 Then ON If Time 13:00 to 13:01 Then ON If Time 14:00 to 14:01 Then ON If Time 15:00 to 15:01 Then ON If Time 16:00 to 16:01 Then ON If Time 17:00 to 17:01 Then ON If Time 18:00 to 18:01 Then ON If Time 19:00 to 19:01 Then ON If Time 20:00 to 20:01 Then ON If Time 21:00 to 21:01 Then ON If Time 22:00 to 22:01 Then ON If Time 23:00 to 23:01 Then ON If Output EMERGENCY = ON Then OFF If Output ATO-LOW = ON Then OFF If Salt < 33.0 Then OFF

03/25/2017, 09:41 AM	#3
ca1ore Grizzled & Cynical Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Stamford, CT Posts: 17,319	Really not sure of your point. You ask why does one need a switch and then proceed to describe your approach using three switches . There are lots of ways to configure an ATO. Yours seems overly convoluted to me. Evaporation in my system varies quite a bit by season (and ambient humidity). But if it works for you ....... __________________ Simon Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones! Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs

03/27/2017, 10:37 AM	#13
skeeter_ca Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Yucaipa, CA Posts: 1,007	You can't measure (TDS) Total Dissolved Solids in your reef tank. It's for measuring the purity of your R/O DI water. Every time your R/O DI machine turns on the first bit of water is very high in TDS, 150ppm+. It then goes down rapidly to around 10ppm or less depending on how well your R/O membrane is working. Then it goes through the DI resin to come out as 0ppm. If you don't run the first part of the water out through a discharge line before it goes into the DI resin, the resin gets used up a lot quicker and when it gets used up then the TDS goes straight into your tank or reservoir. If the R/O is constantly being turned off and on for short cycles for top-off it can use up the resin real quick. This is the reason most people use a R/O DI water reservoir. You turn on the R/O di unit when the reservoir gets low and a float valve in the reservoir shuts it off when full and gives you time to get back to it to shut the R/O unit off. A dual sensor TDS meter is inexpensive. You put one sensor before the DI canister and the other after it. Just something to consider. skeeter __________________ skeeter - It is easier to ask for forgiveness than premission. My motto to my wife. Current Tank Info: 75rr,6"dsb,refugium,auto top-off & semi-auto water changer, OM squirt. 4 MJs 1200, Started on 03/03/06

03/27/2017, 10:39 AM	#14
skeeter_ca Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Yucaipa, CA Posts: 1,007	BTW Optionman, nice tank. __________________ skeeter - It is easier to ask for forgiveness than premission. My motto to my wife. Current Tank Info: 75rr,6"dsb,refugium,auto top-off & semi-auto water changer, OM squirt. 4 MJs 1200, Started on 03/03/06

03/27/2017, 02:35 PM	#19
mkj Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Vancouver Posts: 210	yep, your title should say "why use one ATO switch when you should be using multiple". There are many ways to skin a cat. All work just fine at the end. I prefer Reefangel to Apex. I can program it to do things Apex only dreams of. but that's another thread. It really comes down to how much you like playing with controllers/monitors or just want plug and play. M2C Last edited by mkj; 03/27/2017 at 02:43 PM.

03/25/2017, 09:41 AM	#2
abrooks12376 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 135	Need a switch if you don't have a controller Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

03/25/2017, 09:45 AM	#4
fixingstill Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 249	Right. With Apex, you don't need a ATO switch (Tunze, etc). And you can integrate it with apex control. I guess I am not woken up yet.

03/25/2017, 10:49 AM	#6
tenurepro Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 227	As a fail safe - in case your Apex loses connection. I use the apex to turn on / off tunze ato for water changes / feedings, and to tell me if salinity is off. It is good to have redundancy Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

03/26/2017, 05:29 AM	#9
Optionman Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: NJ Posts: 774	1 branch of my RODI line runs directly to my sump, connected to a float valve I used this method without any failsafe for months until I installed an apex to control CArx. I then spliced a solenoid valve into the RODI/ATO line and programmed the apex to shut off the line if power is lost and/or if sump water level rises and triggers either of 2 leak detectors located slightly above normal sump water level. Works great. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

03/26/2017, 09:53 AM	#11
fixingstill Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 249	Right, Apex gives us some much automated control. The TDS could be high first 1 min or so every time you turn on the RO thou. Add a small RO tank might help.

03/27/2017, 11:02 AM	#15
fixingstill Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 249	skeeter_ca, thanks for the info.

03/27/2017, 11:35 AM	#17
ktownhero Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 1,426	You asked why people use a switch and then described your method of using a switch. I'm not clear on your point or question?

03/27/2017, 02:52 PM	#20
ca1ore Grizzled & Cynical Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Stamford, CT Posts: 17,319	Of course there's no need for a standalone ATO when you have an Apex - was that really your point? Though, something like the avast can be configured as either a standalone ATO or integrated to Apex. __________________ Simon Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones! Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs

04/02/2017, 04:35 PM	#22
MrGuy Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 72	I use a float switch and it works fine. Float switch $9.00 for pack of 5. $15.00 for pump. $bucket costs nothing. Apex controller $800.00 I guess I can really see my problem here. thanks!