LC curing question..

LennyD4 · 10/17/2017, 07:16 AM

I recently ordered 30lbs of Pukani from BRS and plan to cure it with LC dosing. I already have a 32g Brute trash can, a 100W Heater and a powerhead for circulation.

My plan is to dose SeaKlear for weeks until phopsphate drops off. I eill be testing weekly and probably changing eater every week or so. I will be doing this in fresh RO/DI water because i heard saltwater is pointless just for curing ( not cycling. )

To my questions...How much do you dose? Can I do this in my garage safely without having to worry about chemicals? (Not a chemist.)

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dkeller_nc · 10/17/2017, 09:40 AM

Yes, you can do this safely in your garage - lanthanum chloride doesn't produce any fumes, nor does it react violently.

As far as how much to dose, it depends on the amount of phosphate leached from the rock, and therefore how much goes into the water. You'd want to dose enough to ensure that you bind all of the orthophosphate in the water plus a little extra.

Lanthanum chloride binds to orthophosphate in a 2:1 molar ratio. In other words, it takes to Lanthanum atoms to bind to one orthophosphate molecule. While something like this could be calculated based on an assumed phosphate concentration (say, 5 ppm), it probably best to just look up what others have used doing a similar procedure. Using too much LC, within limits, isn't particularly harmful so long as the rock is thoroughly rinsed/soaked after the treatment.

LennyD4 · 10/17/2017, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkeller_nc

Yes, you can do this safely in your garage - lanthanum chloride doesn't produce any fumes, nor does it react violently.

As far as how much to dose, it depends on the amount of phosphate leached from the rock, and therefore how much goes into the water. You'd want to dose enough to ensure that you bind all of the orthophosphate in the water plus a little extra.

Lanthanum chloride binds to orthophosphate in a 2:1 molar ratio. In other words, it takes to Lanthanum atoms to bind to one orthophosphate molecule. While something like this could be calculated based on an assumed phosphate concentration (say, 5 ppm), it probably best to just look up what others have used doing a similar procedure. Using too much LC, within limits, isn't particularly harmful so long as the rock is thoroughly rinsed/soaked after the treatment.

Awesome. Thank you for the reply. I was expecting from some " acid dip period." I have no interest at all in messing with acid.

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bertoni · 10/17/2017, 03:45 PM

I agree that computing a dose is going to be difficult, particularly if the rock leaches much phosphate, which definitely can be an issue. You could add some, based on guidelines from others, or you could measure the phosphate, or simply dose occasionally as long as precipitate forms. Rinsing the rock will remove the precipitate and any leftover lanthanum chloride, as has been stated.

Jwheld · 10/21/2017, 06:37 PM

When I cured with LC dose, I had to do a water change to get accurate test results. My guess is the test kits unbind phosphate to it is detectable.

Just something to keep in mind if you’re testing curing rock occasionally.

LennyD4 · 10/21/2017, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jwheld

When I cured with LC dose, I had to do a water change to get accurate test results. My guess is the test kits unbind phosphate to it is detectable.

Just something to keep in mind if you’re testing curing rock occasionally.

Cool thanks for the tip.

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Mohammed · 10/23/2017, 10:21 AM

Sorry to hijack but in a similar situation.I have acid bathed the rock 3 times and it still produced gunk even though it appears bone wite. The rock is a almost like tonga brach but chunky. Do i continue acid until the gynk stops or is bleaching a better alternative.

With regards to the LC treatment can I use my Hanna ULR to test the RO after the treatment.

bertoni · 10/23/2017, 03:29 PM

The Hanna ULR is rated only for saltwater. I'd use some other kit for testing RO/DI.

What do you mean by "gunk"? Bleaching might be better for some organics, but I suspect you'll need to cure it to deal with any large amounts of debris.

Mohammed · 10/24/2017, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bertoni

The Hanna ULR is rated only for saltwater. I'd use some other kit for testing RO/DI.

What do you mean by "gunk"? Bleaching might be better for some organics, but I suspect you'll need to cure it to deal with any large amounts of debris.

After acid bathing it was pressure washed and was bone white. I then acid bathed it the second time and the" gunk" im refering to was like a whole lot of detritus. At the bottom of the bucket. I then rinsed of the rock and acid bathed a third time and still more "detritus" came out.

So do i continue with the acid until no more detritus is present in the bucket or should i rather bleach and LC treat?

dkeller_nc · 10/24/2017, 09:29 AM

I would suggest that you stop acid washing it. Detritus and other stuff gets incorporated into the rock as it grows in the ocean. Acid washing takes off the top layer of the rock, each time you do it. So you're simply exposing another layer of "gunk", which then falls to the bottom of the bucket.

The idea of the initial acid wash is to strip off the very outer layer of the rock that was most recently exposed in the ocean, and that has the most organics/dead organisms on it. Once this is done, there is little point in repeatedly acid washing it.

Mohammed · 10/24/2017, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkeller_nc

I would suggest that you stop acid washing it. Detritus and other stuff gets incorporated into the rock as it grows in the ocean. Acid washing takes off the top layer of the rock, each time you do it. So you're simply exposing another layer of "gunk", which then falls to the bottom of the bucket.

The idea of the initial acid wash is to strip off the very outer layer of the rock that was most recently exposed in the ocean, and that has the most organics/dead organisms on it. Once this is done, there is little point in repeatedly acid washing it.

Thanks all

bertoni · 10/24/2017, 01:42 PM

I agree that more acid washing probably won't help. I'd just cure it, at this point.

LennyD4 · 10/28/2017, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jwheld

When I cured with LC dose, I had to do a water change to get accurate test results. My guess is the test kits unbind phosphate to it is detectable.

Just something to keep in mind if you’re testing curing rock occasionally.

When you curwd your rock did you do it with Salt? Right now I have some rock in a brute with a powethead and heater set at 80. Ro/DI but no salt. Will start dosing LC in a couple of days.

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Jwheld · 10/28/2017, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LennyD4

When you curwd your rock did you do it with Salt? Right now I have some rock in a brute with a powethead and heater set at 80. Ro/DI but no salt. Will start dosing LC in a couple of days.

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Yea, I used salt water with specific gravity around 1.020. Not sure if salt is needed. I thought salt water helps speed up the process, but I'm not sure. I know more heat and flow will help speed it up. Maybe others will chime in on saltwater verse freshwater curing.

LennyD4 · 10/28/2017, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jwheld

Yea, I used salt water with specific gravity around 1.020. Not sure if salt is needed. I thought salt water helps speed up the process, but I'm not sure. I know more heat and flow will help speed it up. Maybe others will chime in on saltwater verse freshwater curing.

Sweet thanks

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bertoni · 10/28/2017, 07:03 PM

Using saltwater will help create the population of bacteria that the rock will need when it's in your tank, but the debris on it will decay in either fresh water or saltwater.

10/17/2017, 07:16 AM	#1
LennyD4 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 633	LC curing question.. I recently ordered 30lbs of Pukani from BRS and plan to cure it with LC dosing. I already have a 32g Brute trash can, a 100W Heater and a powerhead for circulation. My plan is to dose SeaKlear for weeks until phopsphate drops off. I eill be testing weekly and probably changing eater every week or so. I will be doing this in fresh RO/DI water because i heard saltwater is pointless just for curing ( not cycling. ) To my questions...How much do you dose? Can I do this in my garage safely without having to worry about chemicals? (Not a chemist.) Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

10/17/2017, 03:45 PM	#4
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I agree that computing a dose is going to be difficult, particularly if the rock leaches much phosphate, which definitely can be an issue. You could add some, based on guidelines from others, or you could measure the phosphate, or simply dose occasionally as long as precipitate forms. Rinsing the rock will remove the precipitate and any leftover lanthanum chloride, as has been stated. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

10/23/2017, 03:29 PM	#8
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	The Hanna ULR is rated only for saltwater. I'd use some other kit for testing RO/DI. What do you mean by "gunk"? Bleaching might be better for some organics, but I suspect you'll need to cure it to deal with any large amounts of debris. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

10/24/2017, 01:42 PM	#12
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I agree that more acid washing probably won't help. I'd just cure it, at this point. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

10/28/2017, 07:03 PM	#16
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Using saltwater will help create the population of bacteria that the rock will need when it's in your tank, but the debris on it will decay in either fresh water or saltwater. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

10/17/2017, 09:40 AM	#2
dkeller_nc Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Central NC Posts: 5,062	Yes, you can do this safely in your garage - lanthanum chloride doesn't produce any fumes, nor does it react violently. As far as how much to dose, it depends on the amount of phosphate leached from the rock, and therefore how much goes into the water. You'd want to dose enough to ensure that you bind all of the orthophosphate in the water plus a little extra. Lanthanum chloride binds to orthophosphate in a 2:1 molar ratio. In other words, it takes to Lanthanum atoms to bind to one orthophosphate molecule. While something like this could be calculated based on an assumed phosphate concentration (say, 5 ppm), it probably best to just look up what others have used doing a similar procedure. Using too much LC, within limits, isn't particularly harmful so long as the rock is thoroughly rinsed/soaked after the treatment.

10/21/2017, 06:37 PM	#5
Jwheld Registered Member Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 106	When I cured with LC dose, I had to do a water change to get accurate test results. My guess is the test kits unbind phosphate to it is detectable. Just something to keep in mind if you’re testing curing rock occasionally.

10/23/2017, 10:21 AM	#7
Mohammed Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 104	Sorry to hijack but in a similar situation.I have acid bathed the rock 3 times and it still produced gunk even though it appears bone wite. The rock is a almost like tonga brach but chunky. Do i continue acid until the gynk stops or is bleaching a better alternative. With regards to the LC treatment can I use my Hanna ULR to test the RO after the treatment.

10/24/2017, 09:29 AM	#10
dkeller_nc Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Central NC Posts: 5,062	I would suggest that you stop acid washing it. Detritus and other stuff gets incorporated into the rock as it grows in the ocean. Acid washing takes off the top layer of the rock, each time you do it. So you're simply exposing another layer of "gunk", which then falls to the bottom of the bucket. The idea of the initial acid wash is to strip off the very outer layer of the rock that was most recently exposed in the ocean, and that has the most organics/dead organisms on it. Once this is done, there is little point in repeatedly acid washing it.