Regenerating GFO - Page 11

SimonSKL · 05/05/2010, 08:01 PM

I did another test 2 hrs later. This time I double diluted the solution (5ml added to 95ml of RODI water. Then take 5ml from the diluted solution and added to another 95ml of RODI water). So the final dilution is 400X less than the original concentration. Using my Hanna Phosphate Checker, I got 0.18ppm. if my calculation is correct the phosphate level in the original and unadjusted solution was about 72ppm 2 hrs after soaking. I wonder if more phosphate will be released from the GFO the longer they soak in the NAOH solution.

paraletho · 06/05/2010, 08:21 AM

There is definately a loss of grain size on the GFO. We accidentally left some in the lye solution for 3 weeks. A lot of it now looks like black dust. OOPs

elijaher · 06/12/2010, 12:00 PM

Bump

elijaher · 07/03/2010, 03:23 PM

Any updates?

mike810 · 07/03/2010, 07:51 PM

I've read through most of the post. I am in no way close to a chemist or understand chemistry very well. But in order to regenerate GFO. All I have to do is use 40grams of NaOH to 1 liter of ro/di water times 5? of the amount of GFO i want to regenerate and let it soak for 24hrs? Then after that, rinse the GFO till the water runs clear. Did I get it right or am I leaving out a step? I'm currently using BRS HC GFO and this stuff is expensive. Changing it out every 2 months but if I can regenerate. I would change it out more often to reduce the algae already in my tank. Please advise weather I got the steps correctly for regenerating.

Thanks,
Mike

SimonSKL · 07/03/2010, 08:17 PM

In my earlier post in May, I recharged my BRS GFO pellets first with 3% muriatic acid as a presoak solution for 24 hours and then in 1M (40gm NaOH in 1L of water) x 48 hours. When I started to rinse the GFO, most of them turned into orange mud and I ended up with less than half the initial volume of GFO. I have not used that batch of recharged GFO as it is too soft to use.

2 weeks ago, I recharged about 1 lb of BRS HC GFO. This time I skipped the acid presoak and went straight to NaOH but I only used 0.5M (20gm in 1L) x 4 days. This time the result is much better and I ended with most of the original volume. I believe the harder HC GFO is more suited for regeneration than the softer granular or pelletized GFO. The PO4 level of the solution after 24 hours was >10ppm. After 4 days and with five rinses with RODI water, the solution was 0ppm per my Hanna Phosphate Checker. I will be using this batch when my current GFO exhausted.

mike810 · 07/03/2010, 08:29 PM

Simon, Thanks for the info. I am almost due to change my GFO out at my next W/C. I will save that used batch of GFO and try to regenerate it using .5M

mike810 · 07/05/2010, 08:25 PM

can i use this to regenerate my GFO?

[IMG]http://i45.*******.com/2d93020.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i47.*******.com/2ywxp9d.jpg[/IMG]

SimonSKL · 07/05/2010, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike810

can i use this to regenerate my GFO?

[IMG]http://i45.*******.com/2d93020.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i47.*******.com/2ywxp9d.jpg[/IMG]

The label said it contains sodium hydroxide but didn't say what percentage. If it is not 100%, I will be concerned about other ingredients and impurities. it will be safer to use a product like this available from Lowes.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...&postcount=244

mike810 · 07/05/2010, 08:54 PM

i see...couldn't find the one in your link at Home Depot. anyways. I needed to clear up some drains in my house lol. Guess i'll go look for that at lowes

elijaher · 07/05/2010, 08:56 PM

+1 contains sodium hydroxide I would'nt take that change.

mike810 · 07/05/2010, 08:59 PM

ya i wont risk it. I'll go to lowes when i get the chance. was looking for the one pictured in the link but grabbed this one instead cause i had some clogged drains anyways

mike810 · 07/09/2010, 09:49 PM

I am about ready to try and recharge some GFO. I just want to get some clear cut info before I take the plunge. I have about 1 Cup of HC GFO from BRS. How much NaOH should I use? I know you guys say 40Grams to 1 liter of water or "1M" . How much should I use to treat 1 Cup of HC GFO? THANKS

tmz · 07/10/2010, 12:12 AM

I'd use three to five times the volume of the gfo. So ,say 4 cups of water or 32 oz( assuming an 8 oz cup) which is about a liter and then 3 tbspoons of sodium hydroxide which is about 40 grams. If you haven't already done so, I'd soak in vinegar overnight first.

mike810 · 07/10/2010, 01:00 AM

so basically 1m for 1 cup of hc gfo? I'm about to go soak it in some vinegar right now... Do i have to rinse off the vinegar before i add the sodium hydroxide?

tlwong · 07/19/2010, 08:34 PM

Correct me if I am wrong . The purpose of using hydroxide is to raise the pH so as to dissolve the ferric phosphate resulting in a final product of ferric oxide.

If this is the case can we use potassium hydroxide instead ?

elijaher · 07/19/2010, 08:49 PM

Does koh cost more?

tlwong · 07/19/2010, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elijaher

Does koh cost more?

In my area it is easier to get KOH than NaOH.

Matt_Wandell · 07/27/2010, 12:28 AM

Tatu, great thread. Maybe I missed it but what type of GFO are you using? Anybody else using actual granular product (not pellet) and seeing problems with the media melting away?

Matt_Wandell · 07/27/2010, 12:37 AM

Has anybody tried presoaking the GFO in dilute muriatic acid rather than vinegar? What dilution did you use?

Just trying to figure out how I'll be able to easily and cheaply do this with 40USG of GFO every month...

elijaher · 07/27/2010, 12:47 AM

Muriatic acid will but little to powerful it will brake down it more.

SimonSKL · 07/27/2010, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt_Wandell

Has anybody tried presoaking the GFO in dilute muriatic acid rather than vinegar? What dilution did you use?

Just trying to figure out how I'll be able to easily and cheaply do this with 40USG of GFO every month...

I did use muriatic acid in 3% concentration (regular MA is about 31%) to presoak my BRS pelletized GFO and measured the PO4 level of the final solution. The purpose of presoaking the GFO in vinegar or muriatic acid is to remove any carbonate build up on the surfaces of the GFO. However, during my presoak process, I did not notice any effervescent or bubbling and the PO4 level is 0 ppm. I concluded this process really did not accomplish anything and now I am skipping the acid presoak step.

Matt_Wandell · 07/27/2010, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimonSKL

I did use muriatic acid in 3% concentration (regular MA is about 31%) to presoak my BRS pelletized GFO and measured the PO4 level of the final solution. The purpose of presoaking the GFO in vinegar or muriatic acid is to remove any carbonate build up on the surfaces of the GFO. However, during my presoak process, I did not notice any effervescent or bubbling and the PO4 level is 0 ppm. I concluded this process really did not accomplish anything and now I am skipping the acid presoak step.

Thanks Simon,

So to verify your numbers, did you dilute muriatic acid in a 10:1 ratio? Any noticeable dissolution of the GFO granules?

I imagine whther or not the presoak is necessary depends on a lot of factors that change from system to system but it's interesting you didn't notice any bubbling at all.

tmz · 07/27/2010, 01:59 PM

I did use muriatic acid in 3% concentration (regular MA is about 31%) to presoak my BRS pelletized GFO and measured the PO4 level of the final solution. The purpose of presoaking the GFO in vinegar or muriatic acid is to remove any carbonate build up on the surfaces of the GFO. However, during my presoak process, I did not notice any effervescent or bubbling and the PO4 level is 0 ppm. I concluded this process really did not accomplish anything and now I am skipping the acid presoak step.

Obviously if you don't have calcium carbonate precipitation in a particular system the acid bath is uneccessary, Many do need it,however, to remove precipitant from the surface of the gfo before the soak in lye.. The acid bath will not remove PO4.

Claes · 07/28/2010, 12:46 PM

Great thread!

For those of us who are using aluminum-based phosphate removers, will the sodium hydroxide treatment regenerate such materials as well?

05/05/2010, 08:01 PM	#251
SimonSKL Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Danville, IL Posts: 1,918	I did another test 2 hrs later. This time I double diluted the solution (5ml added to 95ml of RODI water. Then take 5ml from the diluted solution and added to another 95ml of RODI water). So the final dilution is 400X less than the original concentration. Using my Hanna Phosphate Checker, I got 0.18ppm. if my calculation is correct the phosphate level in the original and unadjusted solution was about 72ppm 2 hrs after soaking. I wonder if more phosphate will be released from the GFO the longer they soak in the NAOH solution. __________________ Simon Mixed LPS and SPS corals Camera - Canon T2i with EF100mm 2.8f USM macro lens Current Tank Info: AG 92g corner tank and Marineland 125g, RKE controllers, Maxspect and Eshine LEDs, MP40WES, Jebo WP40 & WP25

06/05/2010, 08:21 AM	#252
paraletho Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Sabine Pass TX Posts: 433	There is definately a loss of grain size on the GFO. We accidentally left some in the lye solution for 3 weeks. A lot of it now looks like black dust. OOPs __________________ There is no better feeling in the world than waking up in the morning and knowing you're doing what you were born to do. It's your life just do it Current Tank Info: 32month old 58 gallon (GBTA,Mushrooms,Dendros,Ricordea,Red Planet,Lobo, Open Brain,10" Torch,Hammer/Frogspawn Xbreed, Mated Pair Ocellaris, Powder Blue ,CB shrimp, assorted cleanup crew) mag 9, 6x39 T5 ATI; 21 mth old 125 gal SPS 50 gal sump/refugium

07/03/2010, 08:17 PM	#256
SimonSKL Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Danville, IL Posts: 1,918	In my earlier post in May, I recharged my BRS GFO pellets first with 3% muriatic acid as a presoak solution for 24 hours and then in 1M (40gm NaOH in 1L of water) x 48 hours. When I started to rinse the GFO, most of them turned into orange mud and I ended up with less than half the initial volume of GFO. I have not used that batch of recharged GFO as it is too soft to use. 2 weeks ago, I recharged about 1 lb of BRS HC GFO. This time I skipped the acid presoak and went straight to NaOH but I only used 0.5M (20gm in 1L) x 4 days. This time the result is much better and I ended with most of the original volume. I believe the harder HC GFO is more suited for regeneration than the softer granular or pelletized GFO. The PO4 level of the solution after 24 hours was >10ppm. After 4 days and with five rinses with RODI water, the solution was 0ppm per my Hanna Phosphate Checker. I will be using this batch when my current GFO exhausted. __________________ Simon Mixed LPS and SPS corals Camera - Canon T2i with EF100mm 2.8f USM macro lens Current Tank Info: AG 92g corner tank and Marineland 125g, RKE controllers, Maxspect and Eshine LEDs, MP40WES, Jebo WP40 & WP25

07/10/2010, 12:12 AM	#264
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	I'd use three to five times the volume of the gfo. So ,say 4 cups of water or 32 oz( assuming an 8 oz cup) which is about a liter and then 3 tbspoons of sodium hydroxide which is about 40 grams. If you haven't already done so, I'd soak in vinegar overnight first. __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.

07/27/2010, 01:59 PM	#274
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	I did use muriatic acid in 3% concentration (regular MA is about 31%) to presoak my BRS pelletized GFO and measured the PO4 level of the final solution. The purpose of presoaking the GFO in vinegar or muriatic acid is to remove any carbonate build up on the surfaces of the GFO. However, during my presoak process, I did not notice any effervescent or bubbling and the PO4 level is 0 ppm. I concluded this process really did not accomplish anything and now I am skipping the acid presoak step. Obviously if you don't have calcium carbonate precipitation in a particular system the acid bath is uneccessary, Many do need it,however, to remove precipitant from the surface of the gfo before the soak in lye.. The acid bath will not remove PO4. __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.

06/12/2010, 12:00 PM	#253
elijaher Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kansas City,Missouri Posts: 1,188	Bump

07/03/2010, 03:23 PM	#254
elijaher Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kansas City,Missouri Posts: 1,188	Any updates?

07/03/2010, 07:51 PM	#255
mike810 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Huntington Beach Posts: 2,235	I've read through most of the post. I am in no way close to a chemist or understand chemistry very well. But in order to regenerate GFO. All I have to do is use 40grams of NaOH to 1 liter of ro/di water times 5? of the amount of GFO i want to regenerate and let it soak for 24hrs? Then after that, rinse the GFO till the water runs clear. Did I get it right or am I leaving out a step? I'm currently using BRS HC GFO and this stuff is expensive. Changing it out every 2 months but if I can regenerate. I would change it out more often to reduce the algae already in my tank. Please advise weather I got the steps correctly for regenerating. Thanks, Mike

07/03/2010, 08:29 PM	#257
mike810 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Huntington Beach Posts: 2,235	Simon, Thanks for the info. I am almost due to change my GFO out at my next W/C. I will save that used batch of GFO and try to regenerate it using .5M

07/05/2010, 08:25 PM	#258
mike810 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Huntington Beach Posts: 2,235	can i use this to regenerate my GFO? [IMG]http://i45.*****.com/2d93020.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i47.*****.com/2ywxp9d.jpg[/IMG]

07/05/2010, 08:54 PM	#260
mike810 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Huntington Beach Posts: 2,235	i see...couldn't find the one in your link at Home Depot. anyways. I needed to clear up some drains in my house lol. Guess i'll go look for that at lowes

07/05/2010, 08:56 PM	#261
elijaher Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kansas City,Missouri Posts: 1,188	+1 contains sodium hydroxide I would'nt take that change.

07/05/2010, 08:59 PM	#262
mike810 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Huntington Beach Posts: 2,235	ya i wont risk it. I'll go to lowes when i get the chance. was looking for the one pictured in the link but grabbed this one instead cause i had some clogged drains anyways

07/09/2010, 09:49 PM	#263
mike810 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Huntington Beach Posts: 2,235	I am about ready to try and recharge some GFO. I just want to get some clear cut info before I take the plunge. I have about 1 Cup of HC GFO from BRS. How much NaOH should I use? I know you guys say 40Grams to 1 liter of water or "1M" . How much should I use to treat 1 Cup of HC GFO? THANKS

07/10/2010, 01:00 AM	#265
mike810 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Huntington Beach Posts: 2,235	so basically 1m for 1 cup of hc gfo? I'm about to go soak it in some vinegar right now... Do i have to rinse off the vinegar before i add the sodium hydroxide?

07/19/2010, 08:34 PM	#266
tlwong Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: malaysia Posts: 11	Correct me if I am wrong . The purpose of using hydroxide is to raise the pH so as to dissolve the ferric phosphate resulting in a final product of ferric oxide. If this is the case can we use potassium hydroxide instead ?

07/19/2010, 08:49 PM	#267
elijaher Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kansas City,Missouri Posts: 1,188	Does koh cost more?

07/27/2010, 12:28 AM	#269
Matt_Wandell Moved On Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: SF CA Posts: 1,257	Tatu, great thread. Maybe I missed it but what type of GFO are you using? Anybody else using actual granular product (not pellet) and seeing problems with the media melting away?

07/27/2010, 12:37 AM	#270
Matt_Wandell Moved On Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: SF CA Posts: 1,257	Has anybody tried presoaking the GFO in dilute muriatic acid rather than vinegar? What dilution did you use? Just trying to figure out how I'll be able to easily and cheaply do this with 40USG of GFO every month...

07/27/2010, 12:47 AM	#271
elijaher Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kansas City,Missouri Posts: 1,188	Muriatic acid will but little to powerful it will brake down it more.

07/28/2010, 12:46 PM	#275
Claes Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Sweden/Stockholm area Posts: 1	Great thread! For those of us who are using aluminum-based phosphate removers, will the sodium hydroxide treatment regenerate such materials as well?