Need 180 advice-Ben&bobbi's 180 upgrade build

ben&bobbi · 12/13/2006, 11:19 AM

so i got this really great deal (i think!) on a 180 gallon reef ready AGA with oak stand and canopy - pick up this weekend.

2 options -
1) trade it for 120 setup - looking at the one on sale here, but he's not responding.

2) or build it up.

we would be upgrading from a 75. I now need to do alot of reading before setting up.

from what i have read in the past, bigger should be easier to keep - except water changes!!! we don't have any major issues now, and i plan to get things going right on this new one. that doesn't mean i am throwing cash that doesn't exist at it either.

so i am posting here to see what you think, plus looking for others out there with similar size.

jay24k · 12/15/2006, 04:05 PM

180 > 120 imo. Extra length which you won't regret.

Optimal setup if you have room.

2 Lumenars. You save on one bulb which is a 30% savings on lights.

I'd go with a 55 to 75 sump so you could your old as a sump. Silicone some baffles in there or build your own.

G4 would do fine. I have a G3 and it works great. I had at one time 22 fish. A couple has passed since then.

I do 20 gallon water changes every 2 weeks. I have a mixed sand bed. SSB in the front. DSB in the back. I like the look of a SSB but want the benefit of the DSB.

I have a seio 1100, 1500, vortech, and a panworld 950 gph pump on my tank. I'll be removing the 2 seios and adding another vortech. I have 3 bulbs but really would prefer the lumenarcs. I'm not sure how it would work with the brace though.

Electricity bill on the whole thing runs about 65 dollars a month. 6 cents K/Watt plus about 36 dollars per 1000 KW bulk rate. (You can compare it to yours.) It averages about 9.6 cents per kilawatt.

ben&bobbi · 12/15/2006, 04:19 PM

what is your return pump? and chance of getting a pic of your sump?
ben-stang@cfl.rr.com

jay24k · 12/15/2006, 09:35 PM

Yea I'll get the camera out tommorrow night. My sump is 40 gallons and I wish I could go larger. I would shoot for a return of 600 gph or match closer to your skimmer.

ben&bobbi · 12/15/2006, 09:57 PM

you want a larger sump for volume, or room for equip? how big is your refugium?

jay24k · 12/16/2006, 08:50 PM

Refug is pretty small but it works. I'd rather have a larger sump. My equipment doesn't take too much room up. I'm moving my tank in a year so I'll be upgrading but imo I would get a bigger sump if you can.

ben&bobbi · 12/18/2006, 08:27 AM

got the tank this weekend! crammed in the diningroom and there to wait! that thing is HEAVY!

couple surprises - the stand is 3/4ply. I wouln't think 3/4" ply would hold that beast up, but it has been that way for 3 years he said! Looks like a purchased stand, not home made.

The top and bottom are full sheets of plywood with cutout for the 2 drains and returns (one each side). i guess the biggest sump i can get is one that will fit through the doors!

thinking about a closed loop, but from what i read so far, is they need a big pump. anyone can clearify or send me to a good thread?

so far we are keeping it!

flfirefighter13 · 12/18/2006, 09:23 AM

Im in the same boat of building a 180 now..... decided to upgrade

Im going to use just one pump, a reeflo dart. That shouold provide plenty of flow and not require anything in the tank other than nozzles. It will also be running my refugium as well. plus it only draws 135w of power. SITC set up all there new tanks this way and it looks great, best thing is the pumps are 3 year warranty plus they can be throttled back to reduce flow. Check into them, may be a way to go.

3/4 ply is common on stands, youd be surprised what ply on edge can support.

ben&bobbi · 12/18/2006, 09:28 AM

i am a little behind you in progress i am sure, but would like to keep comparing notes before i make cuts/plumbing etc. Are you running a thread on here, i would like to see pics of your sump/size.

Quote:

Originally posted by flfirefighter13
Im in the same boat of building a 180 now..... decided to upgrade Im going to use just one pump, a reeflo dart. That shouold provide plenty of flow and not require anything in the tank other than nozzles. It will also be running my refugium as well. plus it only draws 135w of power. SITC set up all there new tanks this way and it looks great, best thing is the pumps are 3 year warranty plus they can be throttled back to reduce flow. Check into them, may be a way to go.

3/4 ply is common on stands, youd be surprised what ply on edge can support.

wiszmaster · 12/18/2006, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jay24k
180 > 120 imo. Extra length which you won't regret.

I have a seio 1100, 1500, vortech, and a panworld 950 gph pump on my tank. I'll be removing the 2 seios and adding another vortech.

since you are adding another one vortech, i'm guessing you like them?

where are yours placed? back wall, or side panel? or both? mind sharing some pictures?
I'm very interested in getting 2 of them for my back wall on my 150g.

thanks,

marco

flfirefighter13 · 12/18/2006, 10:30 AM

build thread is at http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hreadid=991127

Ive kindo of come to a stand stil on the build of that, I am building another 125 right now. The 180 will recommence as soon as I get on delivered, hopefully thursday. I am useing a 125g tank as a sump, 4' will be show refugium then 2 feet will be skimmer housing with the hole leading to the dart. I plan on plumbing the dart up to a manifold of sorts and splitting it into at least 4 outlets in the tank. I will also tee off straight out of the pump for the line to feed the refugium area if needed, Im going to see how having one overflow dump into the refugium area does first. check the thread out, I will most likely update later today hopefully the other 125 will be done today, I want to get it setup so I can sell the tank that it is replaceing. Im off to the glass shop now to get some drilling done, cathc ya later!

jay24k · 12/18/2006, 06:31 PM

I'm adding a second one once our second house closes. I run them on the side and they do a good job. If you use a dart, use it in a closed loop. Also it is not as energy effecient as a powerhead but it does look nicer.

You only want about 3 times the volume running through your sump. That's why I would get a bigger sump.

Me No Nemo · 12/19/2006, 02:06 AM

I really like the Sequence pumps. We have Barracudas running on each of our new 210 gallon coral systems, no closed loop. No power heads!!! Very nice, clean look and extreme flow throughout the systems. Our power bill on the new store is about a third lower than the old store (yeah!!!) even with lots more lighting etc. We did away with all the power heads and even with (3) 250 watt Mogul MH, VHO supplements, a Mag 7 on the AquaC 180 we keep the tank temps in the upper 70's without a chiller.

ben&bobbi · 12/31/2006, 12:31 PM

OK, still making some decisions.

Pumping options:

dart pump to run everything (160w) no additional ph's
- return from sump into 6 locline outlets
= 2820 @4' + 160w power for $230+sh

Eheim pumps (2) returns - in case one fails (160w both)
- each returning through 2 locline outlets
(2) Seio M1500 ph's (68w both)
= 1600 @4' + 3000 ph's + 228w power for $400+sh

or

Blueline 100 to run everything (390w) no additional ph's
- return from sump into 6 locline outlets
= 1900 max + 390w but, already have.

mfp4073 · 12/31/2006, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Me No Nemo
Our power bill on the new store is about a third lower than the old store (yeah!!!) even with lots more lighting etc.

Are you serious? Damn you should have moved years ago!

rdmpe · 12/31/2006, 04:51 PM

I have a 180 with a dart as a sump return pump and a second dart on a closed loop. I have crazy flow but pay some price in heat to deal with... I also have a mag 9.5 running my skimmer.

When plumbing the dart, use 2" pipe wherever you can. Also, use spaflex wherever you can. It is much easier to plumb and reduces noise too. To straighten spaflex that is curled, put the piece you need straightened into your oven for a few minutes at around 180 to 200 F.

Me No Nemo · 12/31/2006, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mfp4073
Are you serious? Damn you should have moved years ago!

Hey, I tried!!!

ben&bobbi · 12/31/2006, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rdmpe
I have a 180 with a dart as a sump return pump and a second dart on a closed loop. I have crazy flow but pay some price in heat to deal with... I also have a mag 9.5 running my skimmer.

When plumbing the dart, use 2" pipe wherever you can. Also, use spaflex wherever you can. It is much easier to plumb and reduces noise too. To straighten spaflex that is curled, put the piece you need straightened into your oven for a few minutes at around 180 to 200 F.

so your running 2 darts (320w total) and moving 5640gph. that's a good amount of movement 31x if i calculated right.

SITC is running the barracuda, same power usage, little more than 1/2 the flow and they look like the are moving pretty good.

on our 75 gal, i am running a RIO 3100 (900gph) to a spraybar and 2 Seio 820 (1640gph both) and everyone looks happy. So to equal that to the 180 it's 2.4 times the size, so i would need 6096gph. ok, somthing doesn't look right!

I have decided i am not taking the tank back out in the truck somewhere hoping they don't crack it drilling, or i don't crack it in the moving. so no closed loop for me. maybe look into hiding the Seio's in some rock, blowing out.

jay24k keep me in mind when you upgrade from your Seio's!

give me your thoughts.

ben&bobbi · 12/31/2006, 10:56 PM

anyone comment on a mag 9.5? life, heat, anything?

seems to have 50gph & 20w more, but about 1/2 price of the eheim 1262.

ben&bobbi · 12/31/2006, 11:00 PM

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

flfirefighter13 · 12/31/2006, 11:08 PM

Ive never had eheim but like the mags I have, Ive got a 9.5, a 12 anda 18 on various tanks. check www.melevsreef.com for a way to do a close loop without drilling the tank if you really want a close loop, nothing hard just some extra plumbing work. Happy new year to you as well!!!!!!

ben&bobbi · 01/03/2007, 09:43 PM

ok, worked out a deal for a dart, so that's the direction i am heading. This will be my return pump from the sump. I might back off to 4 locline returns, but i am trying to get the engineers at work to help me out! if I still need more, i will add my Seio 820's and if they aren't enough, i will upgrade later. I know i didn't want powerheads, but i also want to keep some of my money from FPL!

Got looking at the overflows. The pipe used is 1.25", but they neck down through the bulkhead. Is this normal? The holes are @1.5" drain and @1.25" return (one each in each corner). The guy said with the blueline, everything flowed perfect, so maybe it's alright.

i need to order some other plumbing supplies, so i might as well fix it all if needed.

Boostable · 01/03/2007, 10:05 PM

I run a Dart on my 220 alone with no power heads and it flow MORE then enough. I keep it turned down a tad most of the time. I think you will be very happy with it.

flfirefighter13 · 01/03/2007, 10:06 PM

I think thats a pretty standard bulkhead size, mine are 1" drain which I adapt to 1.25 on top and bottom of the bulkhead and the return line lets me run 3/4 which I had been useing, but will most likely bump up as well on my next tank, trial and error to figure it all out for me

ben&bobbi · 01/04/2007, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Boostable
I run a Dart on my 220 alone with no power heads and it flow MORE then enough. I keep it turned down a tad most of the time. I think you will be very happy with it.

any chance of getting a couple pics of your plumbing?
Ben

12/13/2006, 11:19 AM	#1
ben&bobbi Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: mims, fl Posts: 1,063	Need 180 advice-thinking about upgrading 180 or trade it so i got this really great deal (i think!) on a 180 gallon reef ready AGA with oak stand and canopy - pick up this weekend. 2 options - 1) trade it for 120 setup - looking at the one on sale here, but he's not responding. 2) or build it up. we would be upgrading from a 75. I now need to do alot of reading before setting up. from what i have read in the past, bigger should be easier to keep - except water changes!!! we don't have any major issues now, and i plan to get things going right on this new one. that doesn't mean i am throwing cash that doesn't exist at it either. so i am posting here to see what you think, plus looking for others out there with similar size. Last edited by mhurley; 12/18/2006 at 09:09 AM.

12/19/2006, 02:06 AM	#13
Me No Nemo Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 2,337	I really like the Sequence pumps. We have Barracudas running on each of our new 210 gallon coral systems, no closed loop. No power heads!!! Very nice, clean look and extreme flow throughout the systems. Our power bill on the new store is about a third lower than the old store (yeah!!!) even with lots more lighting etc. We did away with all the power heads and even with (3) 250 watt Mogul MH, VHO supplements, a Mag 7 on the AquaC 180 we keep the tank temps in the upper 70's without a chiller. __________________ “Life is life's greatest gift. Guard the life of another creature as you would your own because it is your own. On life's scale of values, the smallest is no less precious to the creature who owns it than the largest...” ( Dr. Lloyd Biggle Jr.) "In among the branches of the corals, like birds among trees, floated many beautiful fish, radiant with metallic greens or crimsons...." J. Beete Jukes 1842-46 Current Tank Info: 215 Oceanic, Dart Pump, Vortech MP 40's, ATI Powermodule 10x80 watts, 46 gallon freshwater planted tank, 3,500+ gallon backyard pond, 12 gallon mantis tank Last edited by Me No Nemo; 12/19/2006 at 02:23 AM.

01/03/2007, 10:05 PM	#23
Boostable King Nothing! Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Lake Mary, FL Posts: 1,196	I run a Dart on my 220 alone with no power heads and it flow MORE then enough. I keep it turned down a tad most of the time. I think you will be very happy with it. __________________ It's not a hobby, it's an addiction!!! Current Tank Info: On the hunt for a Peninsula

12/15/2006, 04:05 PM	#2
jay24k Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Leesburg, Florida Posts: 6,546	180 > 120 imo. Extra length which you won't regret. Optimal setup if you have room. 2 Lumenars. You save on one bulb which is a 30% savings on lights. I'd go with a 55 to 75 sump so you could your old as a sump. Silicone some baffles in there or build your own. G4 would do fine. I have a G3 and it works great. I had at one time 22 fish. A couple has passed since then. I do 20 gallon water changes every 2 weeks. I have a mixed sand bed. SSB in the front. DSB in the back. I like the look of a SSB but want the benefit of the DSB. I have a seio 1100, 1500, vortech, and a panworld 950 gph pump on my tank. I'll be removing the 2 seios and adding another vortech. I have 3 bulbs but really would prefer the lumenarcs. I'm not sure how it would work with the brace though. Electricity bill on the whole thing runs about 65 dollars a month. 6 cents K/Watt plus about 36 dollars per 1000 KW bulk rate. (You can compare it to yours.) It averages about 9.6 cents per kilawatt.

12/15/2006, 04:19 PM	#3
ben&bobbi Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: mims, fl Posts: 1,063	what is your return pump? and chance of getting a pic of your sump? ben-stang@cfl.rr.com

12/15/2006, 09:35 PM	#4
jay24k Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Leesburg, Florida Posts: 6,546	Yea I'll get the camera out tommorrow night. My sump is 40 gallons and I wish I could go larger. I would shoot for a return of 600 gph or match closer to your skimmer.

12/15/2006, 09:57 PM	#5
ben&bobbi Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: mims, fl Posts: 1,063	you want a larger sump for volume, or room for equip? how big is your refugium?

12/16/2006, 08:50 PM	#6
jay24k Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Leesburg, Florida Posts: 6,546	Refug is pretty small but it works. I'd rather have a larger sump. My equipment doesn't take too much room up. I'm moving my tank in a year so I'll be upgrading but imo I would get a bigger sump if you can.

12/18/2006, 08:27 AM	#7
ben&bobbi Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: mims, fl Posts: 1,063	got the tank this weekend! crammed in the diningroom and there to wait! that thing is HEAVY! couple surprises - the stand is 3/4ply. I wouln't think 3/4" ply would hold that beast up, but it has been that way for 3 years he said! Looks like a purchased stand, not home made. The top and bottom are full sheets of plywood with cutout for the 2 drains and returns (one each side). i guess the biggest sump i can get is one that will fit through the doors! thinking about a closed loop, but from what i read so far, is they need a big pump. anyone can clearify or send me to a good thread? so far we are keeping it!

12/18/2006, 09:23 AM	#8
flfirefighter13 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Deland Posts: 1,289	Im in the same boat of building a 180 now..... decided to upgrade Im going to use just one pump, a reeflo dart. That shouold provide plenty of flow and not require anything in the tank other than nozzles. It will also be running my refugium as well. plus it only draws 135w of power. SITC set up all there new tanks this way and it looks great, best thing is the pumps are 3 year warranty plus they can be throttled back to reduce flow. Check into them, may be a way to go. 3/4 ply is common on stands, youd be surprised what ply on edge can support.

12/18/2006, 10:30 AM	#11
flfirefighter13 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Deland Posts: 1,289	build thread is at http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hreadid=991127 Ive kindo of come to a stand stil on the build of that, I am building another 125 right now. The 180 will recommence as soon as I get on delivered, hopefully thursday. I am useing a 125g tank as a sump, 4' will be show refugium then 2 feet will be skimmer housing with the hole leading to the dart. I plan on plumbing the dart up to a manifold of sorts and splitting it into at least 4 outlets in the tank. I will also tee off straight out of the pump for the line to feed the refugium area if needed, Im going to see how having one overflow dump into the refugium area does first. check the thread out, I will most likely update later today hopefully the other 125 will be done today, I want to get it setup so I can sell the tank that it is replaceing. Im off to the glass shop now to get some drilling done, cathc ya later!

12/18/2006, 06:31 PM	#12
jay24k Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Leesburg, Florida Posts: 6,546	I'm adding a second one once our second house closes. I run them on the side and they do a good job. If you use a dart, use it in a closed loop. Also it is not as energy effecient as a powerhead but it does look nicer. You only want about 3 times the volume running through your sump. That's why I would get a bigger sump.

12/31/2006, 12:31 PM	#14
ben&bobbi Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: mims, fl Posts: 1,063	OK, still making some decisions. Pumping options: dart pump to run everything (160w) no additional ph's - return from sump into 6 locline outlets = 2820 @4' + 160w power for $230+sh Eheim pumps (2) returns - in case one fails (160w both) - each returning through 2 locline outlets (2) Seio M1500 ph's (68w both) = 1600 @4' + 3000 ph's + 228w power for $400+sh or Blueline 100 to run everything (390w) no additional ph's - return from sump into 6 locline outlets = 1900 max + 390w but, already have.

12/31/2006, 04:51 PM	#16
rdmpe Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Central Florida Posts: 3,737	I have a 180 with a dart as a sump return pump and a second dart on a closed loop. I have crazy flow but pay some price in heat to deal with... I also have a mag 9.5 running my skimmer. When plumbing the dart, use 2" pipe wherever you can. Also, use spaflex wherever you can. It is much easier to plumb and reduces noise too. To straighten spaflex that is curled, put the piece you need straightened into your oven for a few minutes at around 180 to 200 F.

12/31/2006, 10:56 PM	#19
ben&bobbi Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: mims, fl Posts: 1,063	anyone comment on a mag 9.5? life, heat, anything? seems to have 50gph & 20w more, but about 1/2 price of the eheim 1262.

12/31/2006, 11:00 PM	#20
ben&bobbi Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: mims, fl Posts: 1,063	HAPPY NEW YEAR!

12/31/2006, 11:08 PM	#21
flfirefighter13 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Deland Posts: 1,289	Ive never had eheim but like the mags I have, Ive got a 9.5, a 12 anda 18 on various tanks. check www.melevsreef.com for a way to do a close loop without drilling the tank if you really want a close loop, nothing hard just some extra plumbing work. Happy new year to you as well!!!!!!

01/03/2007, 09:43 PM	#22
ben&bobbi Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: mims, fl Posts: 1,063	ok, worked out a deal for a dart, so that's the direction i am heading. This will be my return pump from the sump. I might back off to 4 locline returns, but i am trying to get the engineers at work to help me out! if I still need more, i will add my Seio 820's and if they aren't enough, i will upgrade later. I know i didn't want powerheads, but i also want to keep some of my money from FPL! Got looking at the overflows. The pipe used is 1.25", but they neck down through the bulkhead. Is this normal? The holes are @1.5" drain and @1.25" return (one each in each corner). The guy said with the blueline, everything flowed perfect, so maybe it's alright. i need to order some other plumbing supplies, so i might as well fix it all if needed.

01/03/2007, 10:06 PM	#24
flfirefighter13 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Deland Posts: 1,289	I think thats a pretty standard bulkhead size, mine are 1" drain which I adapt to 1.25 on top and bottom of the bulkhead and the return line lets me run 3/4 which I had been useing, but will most likely bump up as well on my next tank, trial and error to figure it all out for me