Actual sales figures

ComforablyNumb · 05/25/2017, 08:25 PM

I was wondering if anyone knows the actual sales figures of the various lighting brands.

IE: Would Kessil sell more units into the market than Ecotech?
What is actually the most popular selling light brand for reefs?

jda · 05/25/2017, 09:44 PM

The old school ones. They have more people who have used them for a long time and still have them. Even though online folks are sometimes on the cutting edge, most folks are not and tend to keep what they have.

I go into people homes for my job - about 25-40 a week. I see about a dozen fish tanks (or all kinds) a month. The VAST majority have PC lights and are freshwater or fish only. MH is first for the reefs - most just change bulbs when they burn out. This is no statement on what is better, just that legacy wins a lot.

With regards to your question about new sales of LEDs, I have asked a few store owners around here and all of them sell the most of what they have over their tanks in the store... a few with Kessils, a few with Hydras and one with AcroOptics. Not really all that scientific.

Some bigger online retailer posted once that Hamilton was their #1 seller... but this makes sense with the LED sales being spread out over so many brands and Hamilton being by-far the largest supplier of one kind of popular light. This was probably three years ago, though.

ComforablyNumb · 05/26/2017, 08:32 AM

Thanks for your response jda. Just like us hobbyists, retailers push whatever brand they bought, and that certainly makes sense.

When I was in another industry, market share numbers were easily available. That does not appear to be the case in this industry.

Also, I know Kessil and the others sell into the hydroponic business (pot presumably over tomatoes lol) and I was also wondering what % goes into that part of the market. (and no, I'm not interested in growing pot even tho its going to be legalized across Canada very soon)

Maybe we'll never know. Your post was exactly what I was looking for, as anecdotal evidence is probably all we have.

jda · 05/26/2017, 08:46 AM

I live in Colorado. As you can imagine, hydroponics are HUGE here and are quite established... tomatoes and pot (well, just pot). HPS dominates the market with probably 95% market share with a few solar tubes for the small-time folks. T5 and LED are a joke for those folks who are growing the Hippie Lettuce to either use or sell. I cannot see how any of them would every consider a Kessil since one Kessil could not even spread enough to cover one "adult" plant. These are not hobbyists, but are all about the money, so they don't have time to jack with inferior stuff and they all choose HPS at 600W or 1000W.

Of all of the homes that I go into, growing Chronic is very common... 30-50% on any given month which dwarfs the aquarium hobby.

Ron Reefman · 05/27/2017, 06:22 AM

I think you'd have a hard time even figuring out if t5, MH or led fixtures sold more units or more dollars over the last year. Trying to figure out specific brands of led fixtures... I would guess is a pretty hopeless task. I wish we could. I'd love to know the sales numbers too!

ca1ore · 05/27/2017, 07:46 AM

Growth favors LED; installed base MH/Flourescent. LFS follow the dollars, look to,them for insight into what's growing.

jda · 05/27/2017, 08:36 AM

I wonder if the LFS around you guys sell much. The ones around here say that they don't sell more than a few panels a month... more of a whim purchase. Almost everybody who is new will price shop online anymore.

Of the good LFS around here does sell hundreds of ATI and MH bulbs and a handful of replacement ballasts a month to the legacy folks - he keeps it close to online prices which is cool since shipping bulbs is not cheap anymore. I think that most folks will support the local guy if they are cool and are close to online prices.

About the LFS - they use what they need to so sell goods. They rarely think long term or about keeping a coral. The rare shop will have a really nice display that has entirely different equipment on it than their frag/coral flats which usually are blue/black lit to sell some so-so corals with the extra pop. Fish at 1.018, 100% copper usage, temp at 82, corals under blues only, clams under blues only (ouch!)... none of these are good long-term strategies, but they work OK for the LFS. I would caution anybody to look to a LFS for much guidance. If you can find a good hobbyist that happens to work at a LFS, then that is awesome - of the dozen or twenty stores in Colorado, I know of two that have this.

ca1ore · 05/27/2017, 05:54 PM

I tend to view most LFS employees as a poor resource, agreed; even many who make it here to RC. Too likely to promulgate bad habits or promote myths. I do find, however, the LFS to be a reasonable barometer of what's selling - or at least their assumption of what sells. Unfortunately a good LFS is a unicorn, perhaps just one of two near me. Neither appears to bother with MH anymore, though I've not asked them if they actually sell many LED panels either (bought my radions there, so they sell some at least

).

Ron Reefman · 05/28/2017, 06:37 AM

When I was working for OceanRevive our 2nd biggest distributor was an LFS in the Miami area and they sold a lot of units. But it was the only light fixture they sold. I don't think many LFS really care about light fixtures anymore. They carry a brand or 2 that they use and that's all they promote.

Lets face it, there are so many brands, and so many sizes and such a variety of features, there is no way they could carry too many. And if you had to order it thru them, why not just order it direct for yourself and have it delivered to your door? And there isn't much margin in lighting fixtures for the LFS either, so you sure don't get their attention. But then I don't frequent LFS very much any more. Only to special order a fish or coral thru a store a friend of mine owns!

05/27/2017, 06:22 AM	#5
Ron Reefman Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Cape Coral, FL Posts: 10,431	I think you'd have a hard time even figuring out if t5, MH or led fixtures sold more units or more dollars over the last year. Trying to figure out specific brands of led fixtures... I would guess is a pretty hopeless task. I wish we could. I'd love to know the sales numbers too! __________________ The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it. (Neil deGrasse Tyson) Visit my build thread http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2593017

05/27/2017, 07:46 AM	#6
ca1ore Grizzled & Cynical Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Stamford, CT Posts: 17,319	Growth favors LED; installed base MH/Flourescent. LFS follow the dollars, look to,them for insight into what's growing. __________________ Simon Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones! Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs

05/27/2017, 05:54 PM	#8
ca1ore Grizzled & Cynical Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Stamford, CT Posts: 17,319	I tend to view most LFS employees as a poor resource, agreed; even many who make it here to RC. Too likely to promulgate bad habits or promote myths. I do find, however, the LFS to be a reasonable barometer of what's selling - or at least their assumption of what sells. Unfortunately a good LFS is a unicorn, perhaps just one of two near me. Neither appears to bother with MH anymore, though I've not asked them if they actually sell many LED panels either (bought my radions there, so they sell some at least ). __________________ Simon Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones! Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs

05/28/2017, 06:37 AM	#9
Ron Reefman Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Cape Coral, FL Posts: 10,431	When I was working for OceanRevive our 2nd biggest distributor was an LFS in the Miami area and they sold a lot of units. But it was the only light fixture they sold. I don't think many LFS really care about light fixtures anymore. They carry a brand or 2 that they use and that's all they promote. Lets face it, there are so many brands, and so many sizes and such a variety of features, there is no way they could carry too many. And if you had to order it thru them, why not just order it direct for yourself and have it delivered to your door? And there isn't much margin in lighting fixtures for the LFS either, so you sure don't get their attention. But then I don't frequent LFS very much any more. Only to special order a fish or coral thru a store a friend of mine owns! __________________ The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it. (Neil deGrasse Tyson) Visit my build thread http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2593017

05/25/2017, 08:25 PM	#1
ComforablyNumb Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: New Brunswick Canada Posts: 627	Actual sales figures I was wondering if anyone knows the actual sales figures of the various lighting brands. IE: Would Kessil sell more units into the market than Ecotech? What is actually the most popular selling light brand for reefs?

05/25/2017, 09:44 PM	#2
jda Dogmatic Dinosaur Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 6,256	The old school ones. They have more people who have used them for a long time and still have them. Even though online folks are sometimes on the cutting edge, most folks are not and tend to keep what they have. I go into people homes for my job - about 25-40 a week. I see about a dozen fish tanks (or all kinds) a month. The VAST majority have PC lights and are freshwater or fish only. MH is first for the reefs - most just change bulbs when they burn out. This is no statement on what is better, just that legacy wins a lot. With regards to your question about new sales of LEDs, I have asked a few store owners around here and all of them sell the most of what they have over their tanks in the store... a few with Kessils, a few with Hydras and one with AcroOptics. Not really all that scientific. Some bigger online retailer posted once that Hamilton was their #1 seller... but this makes sense with the LED sales being spread out over so many brands and Hamilton being by-far the largest supplier of one kind of popular light. This was probably three years ago, though.

05/26/2017, 08:32 AM	#3
ComforablyNumb Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: New Brunswick Canada Posts: 627	Thanks for your response jda. Just like us hobbyists, retailers push whatever brand they bought, and that certainly makes sense. When I was in another industry, market share numbers were easily available. That does not appear to be the case in this industry. Also, I know Kessil and the others sell into the hydroponic business (pot presumably over tomatoes lol) and I was also wondering what % goes into that part of the market. (and no, I'm not interested in growing pot even tho its going to be legalized across Canada very soon) Maybe we'll never know. Your post was exactly what I was looking for, as anecdotal evidence is probably all we have.

05/26/2017, 08:46 AM	#4
jda Dogmatic Dinosaur Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 6,256	I live in Colorado. As you can imagine, hydroponics are HUGE here and are quite established... tomatoes and pot (well, just pot). HPS dominates the market with probably 95% market share with a few solar tubes for the small-time folks. T5 and LED are a joke for those folks who are growing the Hippie Lettuce to either use or sell. I cannot see how any of them would every consider a Kessil since one Kessil could not even spread enough to cover one "adult" plant. These are not hobbyists, but are all about the money, so they don't have time to jack with inferior stuff and they all choose HPS at 600W or 1000W. Of all of the homes that I go into, growing Chronic is very common... 30-50% on any given month which dwarfs the aquarium hobby.

05/27/2017, 08:36 AM	#7
jda Dogmatic Dinosaur Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 6,256	I wonder if the LFS around you guys sell much. The ones around here say that they don't sell more than a few panels a month... more of a whim purchase. Almost everybody who is new will price shop online anymore. Of the good LFS around here does sell hundreds of ATI and MH bulbs and a handful of replacement ballasts a month to the legacy folks - he keeps it close to online prices which is cool since shipping bulbs is not cheap anymore. I think that most folks will support the local guy if they are cool and are close to online prices. About the LFS - they use what they need to so sell goods. They rarely think long term or about keeping a coral. The rare shop will have a really nice display that has entirely different equipment on it than their frag/coral flats which usually are blue/black lit to sell some so-so corals with the extra pop. Fish at 1.018, 100% copper usage, temp at 82, corals under blues only, clams under blues only (ouch!)... none of these are good long-term strategies, but they work OK for the LFS. I would caution anybody to look to a LFS for much guidance. If you can find a good hobbyist that happens to work at a LFS, then that is awesome - of the dozen or twenty stores in Colorado, I know of two that have this.