LED Project

Anthonius · 03/26/2010, 01:39 AM

Alright guys I am going to attempt the feat of LED lighting. I will be doing it on a small scale for a little inline frag tank. I was thinking a 20g long will be sufficient. I was looking at the Cree XP-G leds for the white lighting and the XR-E leds for the blue lighting. I am looking for your assistance as this is my first electrical DIY project and I could really use some kindergartner explanation with this. how do i wire them? how many can i wire on a strip? how many leds will be sufficient for a 20g long being as its 30" L x 12½" W x 13" T?

So for starters I would like to know which leds to use. I would like to know how many I need if i want to light sps as well as zoas and acans. Keep in mind this is going to be a frag tank so I would like growth to be the primary reason anything is in this tank so I dont need lit for coloration as much as it needs to be lit for growth. I have all the tools I need but what gauge wire should I use I have read in different threads 22-18 gauge is sufficient.

I know you DIY lighters are reading this so help a brother out with his first DIY project... I should be ordering supplies shortly and once I do so I will use this thread as my build project.

der_wille_zur_macht · 03/26/2010, 06:15 AM

Do you know what style of drivers you want to use? How high up the fixture will be mounted?

The "best" LEDs are XP-G R5 for white, and XP-E or XR-E for royal blues. Mix ratios will depend on your personal preference, but are usually around 60/40 for XP-G whites. Total count on your tank - maybe 18.

For wiring, I'd look at anything between 20 - 26 gauge that was pretinned and had good flame-resistant insulation (i.e. not garbage speaker wire from ratshack).

Anthonius · 03/26/2010, 06:32 PM

well by drivers im assuming the basic will be fine as i do not intend to use any dimmer switches however i do need two separate power cables for blue and white so they can turn on and off at separate times. also as far as the height off of the tank i was going to diy a pully system so i can set the lights about 1" from the tank.

So what I would like to know is what type of setup would you recommend for simple on/off capability and excellent coverage. If you wouldnt mind maybe giving me some ideas as how to wire this. and when you say 60/40 you mean like 10whites 8blues and what type of pattern should be used for equal lighting?

I did read some stuff on buck pucks on Soundwave's thread which you were a part of here and there but he has a much larger application than I do so I would think I need a smaller parts list and if someone can supply me with a parts list for say a 24 bulb fixture that would be great.

By the way would this light config work?

please excuse the MSPaint job. lol.

Also if someone could let me know wheres the cheapest place to get the above stated bulbs. the XP-G whites and the XP-E or XR-E royals.

Anthonius · 03/27/2010, 12:45 AM

I was given this place as a good spot to get my hands on the leds Rapidled.com... can anyone recommend a good driver for the above illustrated fixture? keep in mind i want to keep blues and whites on different switches so i need to know how many drivers i need and what kinds. also i could use a recommendation for the power supplies as well. Aside from that i think im going to build the shell out of acrylic and make this think pleasing to the eyes.

Also as far as optics go... in a 20g long tank are they necessary? if so should i get 40* 60* or 80*?

jtl2 · 03/27/2010, 06:16 AM

You won't need optics on a 13" tall tank. Would recommend a dimmable driver though, especially with the XP-Gs. You can achieve the same effect with shade cloth or some other screen if you don't go the dimmable route. At cutter you can specify the chromaticity bin also with 1A preferred (higher price also) and 1B a close second.

I'm running a 50/50 mix over my DT, XP-Gs and royal blues, with no optics ~20" deep.

shackscs · 03/27/2010, 07:56 AM

Quote:

can anyone recommend a good driver for the above illustrated fixture? keep in mind i want to keep blues and whites on different switches so i need to know how many drivers i need and what kinds. also i could use a recommendation for the power supplies as well.

I am currently using 2 Meanwell LPC-35-700 drivers for my setup. Each one is running 12 LEDS, 12 white and 12 blue. As you have already read in my thread there is a DIY driver if you are into getting in and doing it yourself.

The thread is located here:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1759758
The meanwells do not need a seperate power supply, just a good quality cord to supply the AC in.

My current setup has two Meanwell drivers running off one power cord.

I am off this weekend so after family stuff, I am going to solder my arrays to the new drivers, power supply and my Arduino.

I am going to use these power supplies to run the new drivers:

http://www.mpja.com/prodinfo.asp?number=16854+PS

Anthonius · 03/27/2010, 05:59 PM

for the Meanwell drivers will the 700mah power the XP-Es? or do i need a 700 and a 1000? i think i might go the route of a meanwell instead of the buckpucks im seeing flying around. plus they have 18 month warranties and i like that idea. so a 50/50 mix of cool whites and royal blues on two meanwells but should i get 2x 700s or 1 of each 700 and 1000?

Anthonius · 03/27/2010, 06:03 PM

sorry for the double post but i thought this one needed its own post to explain the cooling aspect.. awhile back i was looking for cooling options for my computer and i came along a video on youtube where i guy completely submerges his motherboard and parts in a nonconductive oil i believe mineral oil. i was thinking of using this as a cooling method as i could completely submerge the system wires and all in this oil and save the cash for the heatsinks. heres the video below if anyones interested http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtufuXLvOok

der_wille_zur_macht · 03/27/2010, 06:59 PM

That presents some vast implementation challenges for fishtank lighting. It might be fun to play with, but I wouldn't count on being able to just toss something like that over a tank and save money.

700mA is probably fine for your LEDs.

Anthonius · 03/28/2010, 02:15 AM

so i can put 12 leds on each meanwell at 700ma? i thought the max recommended is 6... and will the 700ma work with the royal blue XR-Es?

and lets say i go with the dimmable meanwells at 40 bucks a pop how many can i string up on each driver? i want to power 24 leds at 50/50...

shackscs · 03/28/2010, 05:58 AM

Yes you can.

I am currently running that config on my build:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1814351

tahiriqbal · 03/28/2010, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthonius

so i can put 12 leds on each meanwell at 700ma? i thought the max recommended is 6... and will the 700ma work with the royal blue XR-Es?

and lets say i go with the dimmable meanwells at 40 bucks a pop how many can i string up on each driver? i want to power 24 leds at 50/50...

6 LED is for the buckpuck driver format and 12 would be for the Meanwell. Both dimmable and non dimmable Meanwell's would run 12 LEDs per driver.

Anthonius · 03/28/2010, 06:09 PM

so whats the difference between the 700mA and the 1000mA? will one generate more light than the other?

kcress · 03/29/2010, 04:39 AM

Certainly!
But... With more heat and less efficiency.

Anthonius · 03/29/2010, 05:03 AM

gotcha so if im going to build a 24 bulb system im already sufficiently lighting a 20 long... this is basically a test... if i like how this does over a frag tank i might look at building one for my 75g...

kcress · 03/29/2010, 02:11 PM

Sounds about right to me. 24 for a 20 long.

Anthonius · 03/29/2010, 05:28 PM

awesome... i think i will start ordering some of the stuff i need this friday... once i get all my stuff i think i will open a new build thread with plenty o' pics

thanks for all the help guys...

ohhh one last thing how do i wire these things up in a string of twelve??? do i do it in series or parallel? or does it not matter?

Anthonius · 03/30/2010, 12:45 AM

ohhh and im looking at the dimmable meanwell drivers whats the difference between the PWM dimming option and the 1-10v dimming option they are same models with same specs aside from how they dim the lights... should i go with the ELN-60-48P or the 48D model?

Seeing Green · 03/30/2010, 02:17 AM

If you have a controller with PWM abilities, them PWM, but these are harder to get ahold of.

I ordered 3 of the D version for my build as I was told that they can be run with a simple pot circuit. There are also folks on the nano-reef forum who have begun programming an arduino board to run these so less $$ than the reefkeeps and such.

Personally, I ahve time now so I went the route that I could build sooner, but its totally dictated(from what I have read) by your own comfort levels. The D version seems easier from what I have read.

Anthonius · 03/30/2010, 03:22 AM

from what i understand all i need is a heatsink, 24 leds, 2x dimmable meanwells, some 18-22awg wire, some solder and the iron itself, and a thermal adhesive like arctic silver to attach them to the heat sink, 2 power cords, and some misc parts (wire nuts, electrical tape, etc). whats a pot circuit and whats an arduino? and do i need them?

der_wille_zur_macht · 03/30/2010, 07:41 AM

The dimmable meanwell ELN drivers NEED a signal on the dimming circuit or else they won't drive the LEDs. No signal is basically the same thing as "off" to those drivers.

So, you need a signal of some sort.

How to get that signal? There are a million ways. If you're not in to hobby electronics and don't care about dimming, the easiest way is to just get a solid well-regulated 10v source and apply it to the dim circuit. This will turn the drivers "full on" 100% of the time.

If you want to actually control the drivers, you need to pay attention to which version of the drivers you get (though there are rumors that they're more or less interchangeable). If you get the D-type, you need to give it a 0-10v analog DC signal. If you get the P type, you need to give it a 10v PWM signal.

The D-type is probably easier for someone not interested in hobby electronics. Basically, you need a regulated 10v source, and a potentiometer (knob) to adjust the voltage that the driver gets.

The P-type is almost as easy - you need a 10v source and something (a timer chip or microcontroller) to chop that source into a PWM signal.

Do some searching, there have been a few threads that have detailed the different methods. Here's a recent thread:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1793374

Anthonius · 03/31/2010, 03:55 PM

so in your experience whats the best option for an electrical newb? that article said something about soldering two pots together. i think i could do that. but is that my best option?

der_wille_zur_macht · 03/31/2010, 04:11 PM

Unless you're using a DIY microcontroller (i.e. an Arduino or something) the D-type is probably easier to deal with.

Anthonius · 03/31/2010, 05:10 PM

ok awesome... i think i will go that route then. friday is right around the corner so i can start orderin supplies. i really appreciate everyones help, especially all of you LED gurus you make this alot easier for a newbie than google alone.

itsmateo · 04/01/2010, 02:13 AM

Just wondering if it is a must to use surface mount LEDs connected to a board, or can you use regular LEDs as well??

03/26/2010, 01:39 AM	#1
Anthonius Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: sioux city Posts: 401	LED Project Alright guys I am going to attempt the feat of LED lighting. I will be doing it on a small scale for a little inline frag tank. I was thinking a 20g long will be sufficient. I was looking at the Cree XP-G leds for the white lighting and the XR-E leds for the blue lighting. I am looking for your assistance as this is my first electrical DIY project and I could really use some kindergartner explanation with this. how do i wire them? how many can i wire on a strip? how many leds will be sufficient for a 20g long being as its 30" L x 12½" W x 13" T? So for starters I would like to know which leds to use. I would like to know how many I need if i want to light sps as well as zoas and acans. Keep in mind this is going to be a frag tank so I would like growth to be the primary reason anything is in this tank so I dont need lit for coloration as much as it needs to be lit for growth. I have all the tools I need but what gauge wire should I use I have read in different threads 22-18 gauge is sufficient. I know you DIY lighters are reading this so help a brother out with his first DIY project... I should be ordering supplies shortly and once I do so I will use this thread as my build project.

03/26/2010, 06:15 AM	#2
der_wille_zur_macht Team RC Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 17,749	Do you know what style of drivers you want to use? How high up the fixture will be mounted? The "best" LEDs are XP-G R5 for white, and XP-E or XR-E for royal blues. Mix ratios will depend on your personal preference, but are usually around 60/40 for XP-G whites. Total count on your tank - maybe 18. For wiring, I'd look at anything between 20 - 26 gauge that was pretinned and had good flame-resistant insulation (i.e. not garbage speaker wire from ratshack). __________________ Inconveniencing marine life since 1992 "It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)

03/26/2010, 06:32 PM	#3
Anthonius Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: sioux city Posts: 401	well by drivers im assuming the basic will be fine as i do not intend to use any dimmer switches however i do need two separate power cables for blue and white so they can turn on and off at separate times. also as far as the height off of the tank i was going to diy a pully system so i can set the lights about 1" from the tank. So what I would like to know is what type of setup would you recommend for simple on/off capability and excellent coverage. If you wouldnt mind maybe giving me some ideas as how to wire this. and when you say 60/40 you mean like 10whites 8blues and what type of pattern should be used for equal lighting? I did read some stuff on buck pucks on Soundwave's thread which you were a part of here and there but he has a much larger application than I do so I would think I need a smaller parts list and if someone can supply me with a parts list for say a 24 bulb fixture that would be great. By the way would this light config work? please excuse the MSPaint job. lol. Also if someone could let me know wheres the cheapest place to get the above stated bulbs. the XP-G whites and the XP-E or XR-E royals. Last edited by Anthonius; 03/26/2010 at 06:45 PM.

03/27/2010, 12:45 AM	#4
Anthonius Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: sioux city Posts: 401	I was given this place as a good spot to get my hands on the leds Rapidled.com... can anyone recommend a good driver for the above illustrated fixture? keep in mind i want to keep blues and whites on different switches so i need to know how many drivers i need and what kinds. also i could use a recommendation for the power supplies as well. Aside from that i think im going to build the shell out of acrylic and make this think pleasing to the eyes. Also as far as optics go... in a 20g long tank are they necessary? if so should i get 40* 60* or 80? Last edited by Anthonius; 03/27/2010 at 01:28 AM.*

03/27/2010, 06:59 PM	#9
der_wille_zur_macht Team RC Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 17,749	That presents some vast implementation challenges for fishtank lighting. It might be fun to play with, but I wouldn't count on being able to just toss something like that over a tank and save money. 700mA is probably fine for your LEDs. __________________ Inconveniencing marine life since 1992 "It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)

03/27/2010, 06:16 AM	#5
jtl2 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 60	You won't need optics on a 13" tall tank. Would recommend a dimmable driver though, especially with the XP-Gs. You can achieve the same effect with shade cloth or some other screen if you don't go the dimmable route. At cutter you can specify the chromaticity bin also with 1A preferred (higher price also) and 1B a close second. I'm running a 50/50 mix over my DT, XP-Gs and royal blues, with no optics ~20" deep.

03/27/2010, 05:59 PM	#7
Anthonius Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: sioux city Posts: 401	for the Meanwell drivers will the 700mah power the XP-Es? or do i need a 700 and a 1000? i think i might go the route of a meanwell instead of the buckpucks im seeing flying around. plus they have 18 month warranties and i like that idea. so a 50/50 mix of cool whites and royal blues on two meanwells but should i get 2x 700s or 1 of each 700 and 1000?

03/27/2010, 06:03 PM	#8
Anthonius Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: sioux city Posts: 401	sorry for the double post but i thought this one needed its own post to explain the cooling aspect.. awhile back i was looking for cooling options for my computer and i came along a video on youtube where i guy completely submerges his motherboard and parts in a nonconductive oil i believe mineral oil. i was thinking of using this as a cooling method as i could completely submerge the system wires and all in this oil and save the cash for the heatsinks. heres the video below if anyones interested http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtufuXLvOok

03/28/2010, 02:15 AM	#10
Anthonius Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: sioux city Posts: 401	so i can put 12 leds on each meanwell at 700ma? i thought the max recommended is 6... and will the 700ma work with the royal blue XR-Es? and lets say i go with the dimmable meanwells at 40 bucks a pop how many can i string up on each driver? i want to power 24 leds at 50/50... Last edited by Anthonius; 03/28/2010 at 02:21 AM.

03/28/2010, 05:58 AM	#11
shackscs Super Premier Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Norristown, PA Posts: 849	Yes you can. I am currently running that config on my build: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1814351

03/28/2010, 06:09 PM	#13
Anthonius Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: sioux city Posts: 401	so whats the difference between the 700mA and the 1000mA? will one generate more light than the other?

03/29/2010, 04:39 AM	#14
kcress Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Central California Coast. Posts: 5,383	Certainly! But... With more heat and less efficiency.

03/29/2010, 05:03 AM	#15
Anthonius Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: sioux city Posts: 401	gotcha so if im going to build a 24 bulb system im already sufficiently lighting a 20 long... this is basically a test... if i like how this does over a frag tank i might look at building one for my 75g...

03/29/2010, 02:11 PM	#16
kcress Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Central California Coast. Posts: 5,383	Sounds about right to me. 24 for a 20 long.

03/29/2010, 05:28 PM	#17
Anthonius Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: sioux city Posts: 401	awesome... i think i will start ordering some of the stuff i need this friday... once i get all my stuff i think i will open a new build thread with plenty o' pics thanks for all the help guys... ohhh one last thing how do i wire these things up in a string of twelve??? do i do it in series or parallel? or does it not matter?

03/30/2010, 12:45 AM	#18
Anthonius Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: sioux city Posts: 401	ohhh and im looking at the dimmable meanwell drivers whats the difference between the PWM dimming option and the 1-10v dimming option they are same models with same specs aside from how they dim the lights... should i go with the ELN-60-48P or the 48D model?

03/30/2010, 02:17 AM	#19
Seeing Green Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 112	If you have a controller with PWM abilities, them PWM, but these are harder to get ahold of. I ordered 3 of the D version for my build as I was told that they can be run with a simple pot circuit. There are also folks on the nano-reef forum who have begun programming an arduino board to run these so less $$ than the reefkeeps and such. Personally, I ahve time now so I went the route that I could build sooner, but its totally dictated(from what I have read) by your own comfort levels. The D version seems easier from what I have read.

03/30/2010, 03:22 AM	#20
Anthonius Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: sioux city Posts: 401	from what i understand all i need is a heatsink, 24 leds, 2x dimmable meanwells, some 18-22awg wire, some solder and the iron itself, and a thermal adhesive like arctic silver to attach them to the heat sink, 2 power cords, and some misc parts (wire nuts, electrical tape, etc). whats a pot circuit and whats an arduino? and do i need them?

03/30/2010, 07:41 AM	#21
der_wille_zur_macht Team RC Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 17,749	The dimmable meanwell ELN drivers NEED a signal on the dimming circuit or else they won't drive the LEDs. No signal is basically the same thing as "off" to those drivers. So, you need a signal of some sort. How to get that signal? There are a million ways. If you're not in to hobby electronics and don't care about dimming, the easiest way is to just get a solid well-regulated 10v source and apply it to the dim circuit. This will turn the drivers "full on" 100% of the time. If you want to actually control the drivers, you need to pay attention to which version of the drivers you get (though there are rumors that they're more or less interchangeable). If you get the D-type, you need to give it a 0-10v analog DC signal. If you get the P type, you need to give it a 10v PWM signal. The D-type is probably easier for someone not interested in hobby electronics. Basically, you need a regulated 10v source, and a potentiometer (knob) to adjust the voltage that the driver gets. The P-type is almost as easy - you need a 10v source and something (a timer chip or microcontroller) to chop that source into a PWM signal. Do some searching, there have been a few threads that have detailed the different methods. Here's a recent thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1793374 __________________ Inconveniencing marine life since 1992 "It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)

03/31/2010, 03:55 PM	#22
Anthonius Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: sioux city Posts: 401	so in your experience whats the best option for an electrical newb? that article said something about soldering two pots together. i think i could do that. but is that my best option?

03/31/2010, 04:11 PM	#23
der_wille_zur_macht Team RC Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 17,749	Unless you're using a DIY microcontroller (i.e. an Arduino or something) the D-type is probably easier to deal with. __________________ Inconveniencing marine life since 1992 "It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)

03/31/2010, 05:10 PM	#24
Anthonius Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: sioux city Posts: 401	ok awesome... i think i will go that route then. friday is right around the corner so i can start orderin supplies. i really appreciate everyones help, especially all of you LED gurus you make this alot easier for a newbie than google alone.

04/01/2010, 02:13 AM	#25
itsmateo Registered Member. Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 415	Just wondering if it is a must to use surface mount LEDs connected to a board, or can you use regular LEDs as well??