I Fragged My Carpet Last Night - Page 4

phender · 09/07/2006, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BonsaiNut
By the way Phil, it should probably be mentioned that S. gigantea can be grown from larval stage to full adulthood in natural sunlight with no supplemental feeding whatsoever...

You are assuming that I knew that.

Thank you for the info. I remember reading that there was a clam farm raising some gigantea many years ago and the Waikiki Aquarium had recieved a couple, but I didn't remember the no feeding part.

Flighty · 09/07/2006, 07:03 PM

I would wonder what they caught on their own with their stickyocityness.

phender · 09/07/2006, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 55semireef
Phender that is probably true for i havn't seen carpets in the wild either but I am talking about fish tanks. A lot of people ususally fail with Haddonis and Mertens under PCs. Its probably more than just light thats playing a factor.

How many people do you know that have failed with Merten's carpets. IME, they may be less demanding than Haddonis.
The biggest factor why people have a difficult time keeping anemones in general is because most anemones can't recover from all the stress of capture, holding and shipping that they have to endure. Even anemones that look good for a few days or weeks may have already started a downhill turn that most hobbiests can't stop. By the time you can tell there is something wrong, it is often too late to do anything about it.

Once you have gotten though those first critical months the difference between being able to keep gigantea carpets and haddons or mertens comes down to two things IMO. Giganteas need high levels of light and tide-like water currents (lots of volume, low speed). If it doesn't have those two things(especially the light), it will gradually(several months) shrink down and die. Haddons and Mertens carpets can get by with lower levels of light(LPS/leather coral type intensity) and normal random flow.

55semireef · 09/07/2006, 09:32 PM

I have had my bluecarpet Haddoni for about 5 weeks and has been doing well. It has grown a lot since and looks a lot bluer than before from what it was. It just seems like carpets prefer stronger lighting even though they will still live under PCs (lower levels of lighting).

phender · 09/07/2006, 10:07 PM

This may not be true in your case since you got your anemone from a friend, but in many cases the rapid growth of new anemones in the first couple months is not so much growth as it is a return to its original size before it was collected.
There is no doubt that it is difficult to "over light" anemones. As with most photosynthetic reef creatures, more light is usually better, but in some cases you don't need to have tremendous growth. In many cases moderate growth is good enough. The brightly colored pigments in anemones (in this case, blue) are often used as "sunblock" to protect cells from the sun. At lower lights the blue pigments tend to fade, while they intensify at higher levels. The bluer anemones certainly look better, but it is not necessarily a measure of the anemone's health. Sort of like a tan person is no more healthy than someone without a tan.

BonsaiNut · 09/07/2006, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by phender
I remember reading that there was a clam farm raising some gigantea many years ago and the Waikiki Aquarium had recieved a couple, but I didn't remember the no feeding part.

I spoke with the guy who was doing the aquaculture. Thinking about trying it myself, though I need a greenhouse setup (small corner of a greenhouse, really).

BonsaiNut · 09/07/2006, 11:34 PM

Nothing to see here, move along

55semireef · 09/08/2006, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by phender
This may not be true in your case since you got your anemone from a friend, but in many cases the rapid growth of new anemones in the first couple months is not so much growth as it is a return to its original size before it was collected.
There is no doubt that it is difficult to "over light" anemones. As with most photosynthetic reef creatures, more light is usually better, but in some cases you don't need to have tremendous growth. In many cases moderate growth is good enough. The brightly colored pigments in anemones (in this case, blue) are often used as "sunblock" to protect cells from the sun. At lower lights the blue pigments tend to fade, while they intensify at higher levels. The bluer anemones certainly look better, but it is not necessarily a measure of the anemone's health. Sort of like a tan person is no more healthy than someone without a tan.

True but....

Quote:

This may not be true in your case since you got your anemone from a friend, but in many cases the rapid growth of new anemones in the first couple months is not so much growth as it is a return to its original size before it was collected.

It has definately grown since. I was well aware of its size before collected and since then I have noticed big differences. Here is what it looked like when it first started out with bluecarpet, than to me and recently.

When Bluecarpet first got it

When I first got it

Pictures taken about 3 weeks ago...even bigger now

Well the carpet has definately become a much finer blue since luckily to my liking. T5s make the difference. I agree with your analogoy about skin tanning with people.

Gary Majchrzak · 09/08/2006, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 55semireef
I was well aware of its size before collected and since then I have noticed big differences.

Unless you made a very long trip recently, I think you missed phender's point.

OrionN · 09/09/2006, 05:00 AM

PictureS, pictureS please Phil.
Let not sidetract THE THREAD.

phender · 09/09/2006, 10:48 AM

There has not been alot of change, but I will get some more pics today, promise.

Mihn, Did you change your screen name because you were getting confused with the poker player?

OrionN · 09/09/2006, 02:29 PM

I just did not want to use my real name anymore.

phender · 09/09/2006, 08:23 PM

OK here we go, anemone pictures at day 6.

Instead of closing the circle both anemones seem to be going into a "swirl". The anemone in the tank has not found a spot where it feels completely comfortable as yet, but its staying in the same general area. The feet are firmly planted on both individuals and the verrucae are sticking to the substrate. They are still catching small pieces of food and the edges of the disks (skirts) are folding up around the food sometimes. I don't know if they are receiving any nutrition from this or not.
It has occured to me that I haven't included any of my tank or water conditions. I will do some tests and post that tomorrow.
Here is a pic of the tank anemone and a close-up of the mouth. The tentacles are still not as inflated as I would like, but I'm not very worried about it at this point.

Here's the basket anemone and a shot of the bottom of the foot showing how the spots turn into stripes. The tentalces on this anemone are about 80% normal.

ricordiaking · 09/09/2006, 09:31 PM

I'm happy that they are doing well, in the other threads how long do they say they take to heal?

55semireef · 09/09/2006, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gary Majchrzak
Unless you made a very long trip recently, I think you missed phender's point.

I got the point

Quote:

Let not sidetract THE THREAD.

Who is?

Phil, will your carpets ever heal back into a circle like shape or is it going to heal in a swirl way?

phender · 09/09/2006, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ricordiaking
I'm happy that they are doing well, in the other threads how long do they say they take to heal?

You know, I'm not really sure. Anthony Calfo seemed to feel that they should be ready to frag again in 12 weeks. Most of the threads I have seen have dealt with BTAs or small Haddoni. They seemed to heal in a couple days.

Quote:

Originally posted by 55semireef
Phil, will your carpets ever heal back into a circle like shape or is it going to heal in a swirl way?

My guess is that the swirl is just a temporary way to protect its exposed mouth/stomach. There seems to be some tissue repair/growth going on underneath the anemone.

By cutting this anemone in half, I removed a lot of tissue. Their just wasn't enough tissue left to pull together and close the wound. I am going to have to be patient and not expect miracles. Even in a simple animal, this much repair takes time.

phender · 09/10/2006, 01:48 PM

BonsaiNut your PM box is full.

dantodd · 09/10/2006, 02:32 PM

Speaking of BonsaiNut looks like it might be time to update the "split in captivity" section of the anemone FAQ.

55semireef · 09/10/2006, 02:36 PM

Phender, do carpets curl up after a big water change the next day?

RedSonja · 09/10/2006, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by phender
If the measurements are from tentacle to tentacle, they might be a little small. If the measurements are just the oral disk, then I think that size would be about perfect for both.

My recent experience of dividing an RBTA would agree with that. Mine was +/- 6" across the oral disk, it was cut August 23rd and within 48 hours both halves had pulled their foot around the cut and were healing well. Now at almost 3 weeks post-division both clones are almost as large as the original animal and again eating very well. I have pictures of some of the process and just took some again tonight, that I will post when I have time.

BUT this was a healthy animal fed daily for 3 months, in a 100g stock tank with lots of light and non-linear flow, that I acquired as a healthy captive-bred clone. I wouldn't try it that soon with a wild-caught animal that was stressed from collecting and shipping. In fact I bought a small bright neon green BTA from an LFS two weeks ago that is almost certainly wild-caught and I think it will be much more than 12 weeks before it's ready to divide. It's grown and eats like a little green piglet but I think, as someone else said, it's making up for lost time and trying to regain its proper size.

And to the OP, you are a brave man. It was nerve-wracking to me, taking a razor to a 6" RBTA even though I'd seen Anthony do it at SaltwaterU2. Cutting that large carpet that you'd had for years... big big kudos to you. Very sorry for your fish loss, but thanks for sharing the knowledge. Hopefully it will help others to successfully propagate anemones without losing other tank inhabitants.

-Sonja

55semireef · 09/10/2006, 09:05 PM

I also know Phender has given me ideas in the distant future

BonsaiNut · 09/10/2006, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by phender
BonsaiNut your PM box is full.

Wierd... I only have 5 messages in it.

You can email me at bonsainut@cox.net

phender · 09/10/2006, 09:26 PM

Sonja, Thanks for sharing your experience. I would love to see some of your pics on this thread.

I decided to switch my anemones. The one that was in the basket is now in the tank and vice versa. The one that was in the basket is the bigger of the halves. It has more of the column and base. I tried to make it as equal as I could, but when you are trying to make sure you divide the mouth equally, the column and base don't always line up perfectly under the mouth.

My tank specs are as follows:
Tank - 48x14x17 tall 50 gals
Lights - 4 x 65 watts PCs. 2- 10K, 2 - actinic (They are driven by 96 watts ballasts, I don't know if that affects the light or not)
Sump - ~ 20gal
Skimmer - ASM G1

Water quality:
Ca - 420 ppm
dKH - 9.2
Mg - 1200 (a little low)
Nitrate - 2 ppm
S.G. - 1.024

Here's a pic of the former "basket half". The tentacles are more dense than the other one. They both caught mysis today. The one that is now in the basket made a definate feeding response by pulling the shrimp deeper within its tentacles.

RedSonja · 09/10/2006, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by phender
The one that was in the basket is the bigger of the halves. It has more of the column and base. I tried to make it as equal as I could, but when you are trying to make sure you divide the mouth equally, the column and base don't always line up perfectly under the mouth.

I had that problem as well, tried to divide the mouth equally and ended up with one clone noticeably smaller than the other because of it. It doesn't seem to have mattered much in my case.

I have both clones in a basket clamped to the top of the stock tank so I can keep an eye on them and feed them, and make sure they get good light and flow. That was where the original anemone lived pre-division and it's worked well so far.

I'll get organized and post pix ASAP. We're in the middle of several projects to get ready for a new tank as well as gearing up for MACNA so life's pretty crazy.

-Sonja

55semireef · 09/10/2006, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BonsaiNut
Wierd... I only have 5 messages in it.

You can email me at bonsainut@cox.net

Check your sent messages. Those count too.

09/07/2006, 10:07 PM	#80
phender Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Yorba Linda, CA Posts: 4,561	This may not be true in your case since you got your anemone from a friend, but in many cases the rapid growth of new anemones in the first couple months is not so much growth as it is a return to its original size before it was collected. There is no doubt that it is difficult to "over light" anemones. As with most photosynthetic reef creatures, more light is usually better, but in some cases you don't need to have tremendous growth. In many cases moderate growth is good enough. The brightly colored pigments in anemones (in this case, blue) are often used as "sunblock" to protect cells from the sun. At lower lights the blue pigments tend to fade, while they intensify at higher levels. The bluer anemones certainly look better, but it is not necessarily a measure of the anemone's health. Sort of like a tan person is no more healthy than someone without a tan. __________________ Phil Current Tank Info: 50 gal reef, used to have - 60 gal reef, 40 gal reef, 2-20 gal clownfish tanks which were also reefs.

09/07/2006, 11:34 PM	#82
BonsaiNut Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 4,629	Nothing to see here, move along __________________ "You are a very fine person, Mr. Baggins, and I am very fond of you; but you are only quite a little fellow in a wide world after all!" - The Hobbit; J. R. R. Tolkien

09/09/2006, 10:48 AM	#86
phender Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Yorba Linda, CA Posts: 4,561	There has not been alot of change, but I will get some more pics today, promise. Mihn, Did you change your screen name because you were getting confused with the poker player? __________________ Phil Current Tank Info: 50 gal reef, used to have - 60 gal reef, 40 gal reef, 2-20 gal clownfish tanks which were also reefs.

09/09/2006, 08:23 PM	#88
phender Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Yorba Linda, CA Posts: 4,561	OK here we go, anemone pictures at day 6. Instead of closing the circle both anemones seem to be going into a "swirl". The anemone in the tank has not found a spot where it feels completely comfortable as yet, but its staying in the same general area. The feet are firmly planted on both individuals and the verrucae are sticking to the substrate. They are still catching small pieces of food and the edges of the disks (skirts) are folding up around the food sometimes. I don't know if they are receiving any nutrition from this or not. It has occured to me that I haven't included any of my tank or water conditions. I will do some tests and post that tomorrow. Here is a pic of the tank anemone and a close-up of the mouth. The tentacles are still not as inflated as I would like, but I'm not very worried about it at this point. Here's the basket anemone and a shot of the bottom of the foot showing how the spots turn into stripes. The tentalces on this anemone are about 80% normal. __________________ Phil Current Tank Info: 50 gal reef, used to have - 60 gal reef, 40 gal reef, 2-20 gal clownfish tanks which were also reefs.

09/09/2006, 09:31 PM	#89
ricordiaking Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NEW YORK Posts: 1,048	I'm happy that they are doing well, in the other threads how long do they say they take to heal? __________________ Clownfish lovers click on the little RED house.

09/07/2006, 07:03 PM	#77
Flighty Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Southern NH, USA Posts: 1,039	I would wonder what they caught on their own with their stickyocityness.

09/07/2006, 09:32 PM	#79
55semireef Moved On Join Date: May 2006 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 5,322	I have had my bluecarpet Haddoni for about 5 weeks and has been doing well. It has grown a lot since and looks a lot bluer than before from what it was. It just seems like carpets prefer stronger lighting even though they will still live under PCs (lower levels of lighting).

09/09/2006, 05:00 AM	#85
OrionN Moved on Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Coastal Texas Posts: 16,000	PictureS, pictureS please Phil. Let not sidetract THE THREAD.

09/09/2006, 02:29 PM	#87
OrionN Moved on Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Coastal Texas Posts: 16,000	I just did not want to use my real name anymore.

09/10/2006, 01:48 PM	#92
phender Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Yorba Linda, CA Posts: 4,561	BonsaiNut your PM box is full. __________________ Phil Current Tank Info: 50 gal reef, used to have - 60 gal reef, 40 gal reef, 2-20 gal clownfish tanks which were also reefs.

09/10/2006, 02:32 PM	#93
dantodd Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Carlos, CA Posts: 2,546	Speaking of BonsaiNut looks like it might be time to update the "split in captivity" section of the anemone FAQ. __________________ collecting donations to build tanks for special needs kids. PM for more information. Current Tank Info: 10 gal nano-reef 96w PC -- 72 bowfront anemone/A. clarkii tank - 20L reef with mantis and A. melanopus

09/10/2006, 02:36 PM	#94
55semireef Moved On Join Date: May 2006 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 5,322	Phender, do carpets curl up after a big water change the next day?

09/10/2006, 09:05 PM	#96
55semireef Moved On Join Date: May 2006 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 5,322	I also know Phender has given me ideas in the distant future

09/10/2006, 09:26 PM	#98
phender Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Yorba Linda, CA Posts: 4,561	Sonja, Thanks for sharing your experience. I would love to see some of your pics on this thread. I decided to switch my anemones. The one that was in the basket is now in the tank and vice versa. The one that was in the basket is the bigger of the halves. It has more of the column and base. I tried to make it as equal as I could, but when you are trying to make sure you divide the mouth equally, the column and base don't always line up perfectly under the mouth. My tank specs are as follows: Tank - 48x14x17 tall 50 gals Lights - 4 x 65 watts PCs. 2- 10K, 2 - actinic (They are driven by 96 watts ballasts, I don't know if that affects the light or not) Sump - ~ 20gal Skimmer - ASM G1 Water quality: Ca - 420 ppm dKH - 9.2 Mg - 1200 (a little low) Nitrate - 2 ppm S.G. - 1.024 Here's a pic of the former "basket half". The tentacles are more dense than the other one. They both caught mysis today. The one that is now in the basket made a definate feeding response by pulling the shrimp deeper within its tentacles. __________________ Phil Current Tank Info: 50 gal reef, used to have - 60 gal reef, 40 gal reef, 2-20 gal clownfish tanks which were also reefs.