A few newb questions..

[ChrisEnglish90]

Hi guys and girls. I'm Chris and I'm new to marine fish and saltwater in general. I had 3 tropical tanks but I am falling more and more in love with marine fish and their beautiful colours. A LFS near me has a few marine fish in terrible looking conditions and I want to rescue them!

I have a 320-330 litre tank measuring 91.5cm wide x 61cm depth x 58cm height. I did have guppy fry in here but they are at a size where they can be moved in my main tank which is a juwel rio 400.

My questions are these...
I currently have playsand in the tank, can I use this or should I replace with live sand?
I know I need rock but realistically how much?
I need a skimmer? The LFS said I don't NEED one but it is useful(they run a reef tank with just a skimmer but he said they don't really need that either)
I have an efx300 cannister filter. I have read but removing the bio balls from it ? What should be put in the cannister instead? Carbon? Filter floss? Maintenance isn't an issue for me, I live alone and do not mind cleaning it out!
Airstones are a no no I believe?
Is the tank suitable for a fowlr?
The option for a sump currently can't happen, I need to build a better tank stand than the one that came with the tank.

One thing I am not clear on is phosphate, I assume this is a bad gas to have in the tank?

Am I missing anything?
Hydrometer, salts, testing kits I know.

Hope to receive some help here and look forward to making some clown fish happy fishes!

Chris.

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[ChrisEnglish90]

I also have a Deionised only filter which I do not pay for or for the water. Will this be fine to use ?

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[A sea K]

To Reef Central

Originally Posted by ChrisEnglish90

. A LFS near me has a few marine fish in terrible looking conditions and I want to rescue them!

My questions are these...
I currently have playsand in the tank, can I use this or should I replace with live sand?
I know I need rock but realistically how much?
I need a skimmer? The LFS said I don't NEED one but it is useful(they run a reef tank with just a skimmer but he said they don't really need that either)
I have an efx300 cannister filter. I have read but removing the bio balls from it ? What should be put in the cannister instead? Carbon? Filter floss? Maintenance isn't an issue for me, I live alone and do not mind cleaning it out!
Airstones are a no no I believe?
Is the tank suitable for a fowlr?
The option for a sump currently can't happen, I need to build a better tank stand than the one that came with the tank.

One thing I am not clear on is phosphate, I assume this is a bad gas to have in the tank?

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Originally Posted by ChrisEnglish90

I also have a Deionised only filter which I do not pay for or for the water. Will this be fine to use ?

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Rescuing fish while a noble idea is probably not the best way for a beginner to start. This hobby is tough enough as it is when first getting started and IMO there is no need to put yourself behind the eight ball from the get go.

Play sand is NOT a good idea as most are silica based and not suitable for marine tanks. Any aragonite based sand is suitable and it does not necessarily need to be "live".

OTTOMH it used to be acceptable to run 1-1/2 lbs of LR per gallon of water of to have adequate biological filtration. Thats nearly 130lbs of LR and with your system not having any sump space available to house some of the rock it will make for a very cluttered display, IMO I feel you could realistcally get away with half that amount so figure roughly 65lbs of quality porous LR.

I consider a skimmer to be essential however it is well proven they are not an absolute necessity. There are many people on this board running successful systems without skimmers. And again with no sump available you will be limited to "hang on" type skimmers and they are somewhat lacking in their abilities, at least IMO they are. Your maintenance will likely be a little increased without one as well.
As for using a canister filter I have no idea what to suggest as I have no previous experience with them.

There is nothing "wrong" with using air stones that I'm aware, they do however have one bad side effect as the bubbles breaking on the water surface can create a lot of salt creep and you want to avoid this if possible. Use an in tank powerhead for added water movement and surface agitation to help with oxygen exchange.
Your tank is 100% suitable for a FOWL set up and is a good way to get started without the added rigors of trying to maintain a full reef system. Much less expensive when it comes to purchasing your lighting too.

Before you get started I would go ahead and acquire a suitable stand that will house a sump. If you plan to keep this tank long term it will beneift you greatly over time.

Phosphate while needed in very small amounts for coral growth and health is not needed for your FOWL. The adverse effects of phosphate is excessive algae growth so learning to keep phosphate in check will be needed. As for the DI only filter as long as it does not pass harmful elements it may be fine. The only way to find this out is with testing or pure trial and error which I don't recommend.

[ChrisEnglish90]

The Di filter is replaced often even though not used often, in terms of rescuing the fish - I wanted a marine tank before seeing this particular lfs but seeing it drove me a bit more. My freshwater tank is thriving and I hope that I can do the same with saltwater. I have been reading these sort of boards for sometime and always come across contradicting messages which baffles me.

Is it worth getting dry sand and a small bag of live sand ?

Of course I won't be putting fish in straight away, I want to take my time and do things to the book. I have spare powerheads laying around and heaters.
If I was to get a sump, what size should it be?
I could use a hob overflow to sump too?

Many thanks

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[A sea K]

Dry sand and if you have another reefer in your area you can get a cup or two from them to "seed" the tank with. This would be ideal and if not then a small bag of the live type would be fine.
Try to fit the largest sump you can within you stand. I have an 80 gal DT and use a 40gal sump. If I were in your situation I would build a stand slightly larger than your tank so it would be able to house a sump of 36" in length, this will allow the far cheaper option of building your own sump from an off the shelf tank of 36" in length such as the 40 breeder tank that I use.

Yes you can use a HOB overflow but with your tank dry you still have the option of drilling the tank provided you don't have tempered glass.

[ChrisEnglish90]

Originally Posted by A sea K

Dry sand and if you have another reefer in your area you can get a cup or two from them to "seed" the tank with. This would be ideal and if not then a small bag of the live type would be fine.
Try to fit the largest sump you can within you stand. I have an 80 gal DT and use a 40gal sump. If I were in your situation I would build a stand slightly larger than your tank so it would be able to house a sump of 36" in length, this will allow the far cheaper option of building your own sump from an off the shelf tank of 36" in length such as the 40 breeder tank that I use.

Yes you can use a HOB overflow but with your tank dry you still have the option of drilling the tank provided you don't have tempered glass.

I'm not sure if anyone around has a reef or marine but will look around here (I'm based in Northampton, UK)

Is their anymore holes that I'd need to cut out? I should use a wier around the overflow or use a filter type overflow on the waterline? The idea of a sump and refugium confuses me, I've looked at a few even the ones in the lfs.

I should be able to modify my current stand to fit one under it. I'm potentially going to get a 100ltr tank, alternatively I'll put my betta in the 58 litre and use the 120 litre he's in as a sump. I think that will be the better option.

Got tips on setting up a tank to connect a sump? Including steps from drilling to plumbing?

Thanks for the help so far,ps I am learning more and more as I did with tropical fw fish. I regret not using the attached as the saltwater but I think the tank I posted first will be more suitable tbh.

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[ChrisEnglish90]

Having a better look at my current tank, I will just need to reposition the supports for the legs a little lower then it will sit on top of that, not impossible.

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[A sea K]

Originally Posted by ChrisEnglish90

I'm not sure if anyone around has a reef or marine but will look around here (I'm based in Northampton, UK)

Is their anymore holes that I'd need to cut out? I should use a wier around the overflow or use a filter type overflow on the waterline? The idea of a sump and refugium confuses me, I've looked at a few even the ones in the lfs.

I should be able to modify my current stand to fit one under it. I'm potentially going to get a 100ltr tank, alternatively I'll put my betta in the 58 litre and use the 120 litre he's in as a sump. I think that will be the better option.

Got tips on setting up a tank to connect a sump? Including steps from drilling to plumbing?

Thanks for the help so far,ps I am learning more and more as I did with tropical fw fish. I regret not using the attached as the saltwater but I think the tank I posted first will be more suitable tbh.

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Any saltwater system that is established would be fine to get some donor sand from, the idea is to seed your sand with some bacteria ridden sand from an established system. If this not available it's no big deal anyway, all it does is give your nitrogen cycle a head start and there really is no requirement to use store bought "live sand" either, it will simply take a bit longer to cycle the tank.

There are different options on DIY overflows and there is a forum here that is specifically tailored for the DIY'er. I personally have not done this so it would be helpful to make a separate post in the DIY forum to address the options that will suit you most.

Not completely sure on the sump question but IMO and experience the bigger the sump the better.

There is lots of drilling and plumbing advice in the DIY section. I would like to elaborate more but it is quite difficult for me to translate my thoughts and related comments to written words.

[ChrisEnglish90]

Originally Posted by A sea K

Any saltwater system that is established would be fine to get some donor sand from, the idea is to seed your sand with some bacteria ridden sand from an established system. If this not available it's no big deal anyway, all it does is give your nitrogen cycle a head start and there really is no requirement to use store bought "live sand" either, it will simply take a bit longer to cycle the tank.

There are different options on DIY overflows and there is a forum here that is specifically tailored for the DIY'er. I personally have not done this so it would be helpful to make a separate post in the DIY forum to address the options that will suit you most.

Not completely sure on the sump question but IMO and experience the bigger the sump the better.

There is lots of drilling and plumbing advice in the DIY section. I would like to elaborate more but it is quite difficult for me to translate my thoughts and related comments to written words.

I figured haha I've been reading since my post about sumps, plumbing and the sections, I sort of see it is quite basic and that I'd be better with a bulkhead using the overflow system. Just one last question... say I was to buy some rock, I can keep it in some saltwater without anything else in it?

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[A sea K]

Originally Posted by ChrisEnglish90

I figured haha I've been reading since my post about sumps, plumbing and the sections, I sort of see it is quite basic and that I'd be better with a bulkhead using the overflow system. Just one last question... say I was to buy some rock, I can keep it in some saltwater without anything else in it?

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You would need some way to circulate water(a simple powerhead aimed at the surface will work), maintain salinity at a reasonable level and probably a heater. In other words, dont let the water stagnate, check the water level in the container every several days and topoff with freshwater as needed and if it gets fairly cold where you live use a heater

[ChrisEnglish90]

Originally Posted by A sea K

You would need some way to circulate water(a simple powerhead aimed at the surface will work), maintain salinity at a reasonable level and probably a heater. In other words, dont let the water stagnate, check the water level in the container every several days and topoff with freshwater as needed and if it gets fairly cold where you live use a heater

I have some powerheads laying around which I'm sure will do the job! I can use deionized water with marine salt, heater and power head and the rock will be fine until I get the tank sorted?

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[A sea K]

Sounds like a plan. By the time you get everything else sorted and ready to go your rock should be close to if not fully cycled.

[homer1475]

Yes. it's how most of us cycle rock before we start the actual tank.

[ChrisEnglish90]

Just a last question on this topic, if the rock was dried, can I still use this?

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[A sea K]

Yes, no problem and dry rock has almost become the norm vs "live" rock as the cost is much less not to mention the added cost of overnight or 2-day shipping of wet rock.

[payas0]

If you are still interested in doing the canister filter, ceramics work real nice as filter media. I ran a FOWLR for about 7 years with my Fluval FX5 filled with ceramics.

[ChrisEnglish90]

Would I need a hob skimmer or could I upturn my filter inlet ?

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[ChrisEnglish90]

Originally Posted by payas0

If you are still interested in doing the canister filter, ceramics work real nice as filter media. I ran a FOWLR for about 7 years with my Fluval FX5 filled with ceramics.

So what else would I need to put in the cannister? It has ceramic already it also has the foam pads too iirc. I will check soon, but will I need a hob skimmer or is this not really needed? Can I modify the intake to skim the surface?

Sorry if these seem stupid questions.

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[A sea K]

From my first post,

Originally Posted by A sea K

I consider a skimmer to be essential however it is well proven they are not an absolute necessity. There are many people on this board running successful systems without skimmers. And again with no sump available you will be limited to "hang on" type skimmers and they are somewhat lacking in their abilities, at least IMO they are. Your maintenance will likely be a little increased without one as well.

So no, you don't have to have one. You are going with a FOWL system and IMO a skimmer is a bit more important for this type of system but still not a necessity. Also if you are going to build a sump as you mentioned previously then I would obtain a internal type skimmer for the sump if you desire as there are much more options (better skimmer IMO) than the hang on type.

[payas0]

Originally Posted by ChrisEnglish90

So what else would I need to put in the cannister? It has ceramic already it also has the foam pads too iirc. I will check soon, but will I need a hob skimmer or is this not really needed? Can I modify the intake to skim the surface?

Sorry if these seem stupid questions.

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I used to use just the ceramics. Tank was always clean even under high bioloads. You could also run carbon with the ceramics.

[ChrisEnglish90]

Okay, would an internal juwel skimmer work as well until I can get the sump sorted? Sorry if I'm a pain in the a$$

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[A sea K]

A quick google does not favor that skimmer. There is not a lot of info and what I did find says a poor choice.

[ChrisEnglish90]

I've come across a bubble magus q3 which YouTube and reviews say works well

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[A sea K]

Originally Posted by ChrisEnglish90

I've come across a bubble magus q3 which YouTube and reviews say works well

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Sounds good then

[BeachVacationer]

Aren't canisters PITA to clean? I would think you need some sponges for mechanical filtration before the ceramics. Then having to clean the sponges say every week seems like a lot of work with a canister. Sump or HOB would be so much easier IMHO.