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Unread 11/17/2006, 04:09 PM   #176
invincible569
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Quote:
Originally posted by benf
so are the chromis as big as tangs now?
LOL. The experienced HGH users say it does not affect the fish.


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Unread 11/17/2006, 04:20 PM   #177
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Quote:
Originally posted by Covey
These are all large, well equiped, well cared for, mature reefs.

People are looking for the magic bullet again.


BTW nothing against these tanks there awesome, but people are crazy if they think there tanks will turn into these overnight with HGH.
yeah, theyre all good growth, but its mostly big stags...which grow like weeds anyway.


Gorgeous tanks, but I'd bet the HGH has absolutely NOTHING to do with it.


A human hormone isnt going to affect a coral. The biology is too different. If they are using them, its as food, IE theyre breaking down and digesting them as a nitrogen/phosphate source.

This is just an example of the obvious: Great water parameters, lots of flow, good light.


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Unread 11/17/2006, 04:33 PM   #178
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Quote:
Originally posted by FSOL
No, what I'm trying to get to here, is that a lot of BB people say that when you have such high amounts of SPS in the tank, you need so much flow that you have to get rid of the sandbed. Plus they say the sandbed traps so much dirt. This guy must be doing something right.
Either that, or the whole BB/DSB argument is retarded, and its really about whether or not you do it right.


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Unread 11/17/2006, 04:39 PM   #179
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Quote:
Originally posted by RichConley
Gorgeous tanks, but I'd bet the HGH has absolutely NOTHING to do with it.

A human hormone isnt going to affect a coral. The biology is too different. If they are using them, its as food, IE theyre breaking down and digesting them as a nitrogen/phosphate source.
I asked my dad about this over a year ago. Of course everything went flying over the top of my head at the speed of sound. But the end result was a suggestion to try amino's Q or Z in fairly large doses. I never did anything with the info but someone may want to give it a shot.

Don


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Unread 11/17/2006, 04:45 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally posted by Donw
HGH is just a generic term, there are hundred of different "hgh" drugs. Whatever they are using seems to be working. Any Idea what its called or who makes it.

Don
Not at my college it wasn't. Unfortunately, now it seems...

From Wikipedia:

"Growth hormone (GH) is also called somatropin and somatotropin (British: somatotrophin). hGH refers to human growth hormone and is an abbreviation for human GH measured in the extracts from human pituitary glands. In 1985, biosynthetic human growth hormone replaced pituitary-derived human growth hormone for therapeutic use in the U.S. and elsewhere. Biosynthetic human growth hormone, also referred to as recombinant human growth hormone, is also called somatropin and abbreviated as rhGH. Since the mid-1990s the abbreviation HGH has begun to carry paradoxical connotations, and now rarely refers to real GH used for indicated purposes."

Even more interesting info:

"Functions of GH:

Effects of growth hormone on the tissues of the body can generally be described as anabolic (building up). Like most other protein hormones GH acts by interacting with a specific receptor on the surface of cells.

Height growth in childhood is the best known effect of GH action, and appears to be stimulated by at least two mechanisms. 1. GH directly stimulates division and multiplication of chondrocytes of cartilage. These are the primary cells in the growing ends (epiphyses) of children's long bones (arms, legs, digits). 2. GH also stimulates production of insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF1, formerly known as somatomedin C), a hormone homologous to proinsulin. The liver is a major target organ of GH for this process, and is the principal site of IGF-1 production. IGF-1 has growth-stimulating effects on a wide variety of tissues. Additional IGF-1 is generated within target tissues, making it apparently both an endocrine and an autocrine/paracrine hormone. IGF-1 will also have stimulatory effects on osteoblast and chondrocyte activity to promote bone growth.

Although height growth is the best known effect of GH, it serves many other metabolic functions as well. GH increases calcium retention, and strengthens and increases the mineralization of bone. It increases muscle mass through the creation of new muscle cells (which differs from hypertrophy), and it also promotes lipolysis, which results in the reduction of adipose tissue (body fat). As well, it increases protein synthesis and stimulates the growth of all internal organs excluding the brain. GH plays a role in fuel homeostasis. GH reduces liver uptake of glucose, an effect that opposes that of insulin. GH also contributes to the maintenance and function of pancreatic islets. GH stimulates the immune system."


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Unread 11/17/2006, 07:42 PM   #181
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Quote:
If you want to know more about the HGH blu coral method.. here's some more info (credit goes to Fabio-Sir who has used this system and is also at 1600mg):
please point me in the right direction I can't find any info on this.
Michael


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Unread 11/17/2006, 09:57 PM   #182
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My god man! These are some outrageous tanks.


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Unread 11/18/2006, 02:08 AM   #183
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Hi,
if you want i can explain the relation between gh and corals, but only in italian...i don't speak very well...sorry..but i'm here, if you have a traslator...it's ok...
bye


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Unread 11/18/2006, 05:21 AM   #184
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sir
Hi,
if you want i can explain the relation between gh and corals, but only in italian...i don't speak very well...sorry..but i'm here, if you have a traslator...it's ok...
bye
Fabio, thanks for joining us. We would love to hear more. I can easily translate your Italian. Go ahead and post it in Italian and I will translate for you. First, explain the relationship of HGh to corals. Then, if you wouldnt mind, share your HGH experience results from your tank. Your tank looked very mature, but at what time frame did you start? Thanks for your help!


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Unread 11/18/2006, 05:22 AM   #185
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Quote:
Originally posted by trueblackpercula
please point me in the right direction I can't find any info on this.
Michael
Its coming.


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Unread 11/18/2006, 06:12 AM   #186
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It is said on reefitalia why we are using old pics on this thread... LOL!! Just when we thought these tanks were very well matured. For now, here is Nando's updated picture of 4yrs and the difference is 1.5 yrs between the pics.



His old pic:




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Unread 11/18/2006, 06:50 AM   #187
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I can't wait for the updates and the translation of his work. Man this is getting very interesting and I am looking forward to what he has to say. I also hope he gets into detail as to what brand and how often ETC....... Its been a vey long time since I have realy got into a tread and this one for sure has it. Can anyone say Thread Of the Month
Michael


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Unread 11/18/2006, 07:42 AM   #188
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What do you do when your corals start growing into your front window pane?? Maurizio's (from Rome) pic provided by the team at reefitalia




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Unread 11/18/2006, 07:57 AM   #189
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geronte's tank won TOTM at reefitalia. It will give you details on equipment and his methods.

http://nuke.reefitalia.com/MagazineN...3/Default.aspx




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Unread 11/18/2006, 08:07 AM   #190
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Maurizio's reef is just unbelievable, I've never seen anything like it, a solid wall of corals!! WOW!!

Invince, do you plan on using any of the Italian methods on your new setup?


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Unread 11/18/2006, 08:11 AM   #191
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more pics
http://www.reefitalia.net/fotoalbum/geronte/


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Unread 11/18/2006, 08:18 AM   #192
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Quote:
Originally posted by Baros
Maurizio's reef is just unbelievable, I've never seen anything like it, a solid wall of corals!! WOW!!

Invince, do you plan on using any of the Italian methods on your new setup?
LOL. Maybe! are you reading my threads over there?


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Unread 11/18/2006, 08:20 AM   #193
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Hi Ed,
i'm here...
Devo dire che ho avuto la fortuna di vedere di persona la vasca di Maurizio...era qualcosa di assurdo....
Come me anche voi vi siete fatti le stesse domande riguardo l'uso dell'ormone e le sue interazioni con i coralli...io ho una mia teoria...questa non è la veritÃ* assoluta, ma ancora nessuno la smentisce...
Il gh è un ormone molto specifico, che agisce sull'uomo e sulla scimmia, non agisce su nessun altro organismo. Per funzionare necessita di recettori specifici che si trovano sulla membrana delle cellule bersaglio..
i coralli NON hanno questi recettori.
Se ne avessero significherebbe che sarebbero in grado, da soli, di usare e produrre il gh..e questo non è reale.
come si spiega allora la crescita che arriva anche a 40 cm l'anno di formose, nobilis e montipore digitate???? qualche influenza deve esserci...
grazie allo staff di reefitalia.net sono riuscito a reperire la composizione amminoacidica del gh, che per ovvi motivi non posso divulgare.
supportato anche da successive riflessioni di un altro nostro biologo(giuseppe vollono) sono arrivato alla spiegazione...
nel momento in cui si prepara il pappone (cubetto) con mitili, ecc ecc e si aggiune l'ormone e poi si congela avviene un fenomeno fondamentale in tutto il discorso...

La proteina in esame si ROMPE!

non è quindi il gh intero che agisce a livello delle cellule, ma l'abbondanza di PARTICOLARI amminoacidi in acqua, che comporta quindi un aumento del metabolismo e un aumento del tasso di calcificazione...
il gh quindi NON influenza in nessun modo la crescita dei pesci, che non risentono di una abbondante o meno presenza di amminoacidi in acqua...
tutto questo deve però essre accompagnato da valori costanti e stabili :
ca 500
mg 1500
kh 12
ph 8,4-5
sr 16-25
I2 0.06
queste sono solo le semplici parole di uno studente di biologia, che ogni tanto pensa...
Ed, can you traslate me eventually questions???
grazie!
ciao!!!


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Unread 11/18/2006, 08:20 AM   #194
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Geronte's reef
400 watt 11.000° K ReefLine (new bulb brand in Italy) powered by Icecap ballast under Lumenarc III. 2X24 watt T5 actinic.
3 days at week Geronte switch on a ozone reactor for 4 hour about 30 mg/h.
One time at month Geronte use Zeospur2 to remove zooxanthellae in access


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Unread 11/18/2006, 08:22 AM   #195
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Unread 11/18/2006, 08:46 AM   #196
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sir
Hi Ed,
i'm here...Ed, can you traslate me eventually questions???
grazie!
ciao!!!
Translated:

I have been fortunate enought to see Maurizio's tank in person. It looked unreal!

For me, you can ask me the same questions about the use of the hormone and its interactions with corals. My theory which no one has said anything against it is as follows:

This hormone (HGH) works on a human and monkey, but not on any other organism. Special receivers on the cell membranes are targeted by this hormone. The coral does not have these receivers because if they did it would produce gh which is not realistic.

One asks how does a SPS coral (Formosa, Nobilis, Digitata and Monti's) grow 15" in one yr? This has influenced the staff at reefitalia.net to successfully look into the amino acid composition of the GH for obvious reasons I cannot disclose. These findings are also backed up by one of our biologists, Giuseppe Vollono who has explained this to us. At the time in which the frozen cube is prepared, a fundamental phenomenal process occurs. The protein under examination BREAKS which increases the abundance of a particular amino acids in the water. This increases the metabolism and calcification of the coral. Therefore GH does not affect fish.

When running the Blu Coral method, you paramater values have to be set at the following values:

Ca 500
Mg 1500
KH 12
PH 8
Sr 16-25
I2 0,06

This is a simple explanation from a Biology student. Please feel free to ask questions and I can respond in Italian. Thank you, Fabio.


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Unread 11/18/2006, 09:06 AM   #197
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THAT makes a LOT more sense.

While there still seems to be other variables---parameters, feeding etc. Most that read know that the fastest SPS can only "normally" grow 6-7" per branch per year under "ideal" conditions.

TT


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Unread 11/18/2006, 09:21 AM   #198
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Ed, i need someone that can traslate in italian,otherwise i don't understand....
Ciao Fabio


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Unread 11/18/2006, 09:33 AM   #199
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sir
Ed, i need someone that can traslate in italian,otherwise i don't understand....
Ciao Fabio
Does this make sense? No questions have came across yet.

TexasTodd:
QUEL di marche senso molto più. Mentre ci ancora sembrano essere altri variabile-parametri, ecc d'alimentazione. La maggior parte che leggano sanno che la latta di SPS più veloce sviluppa soltanto "normalmente" 6-7 "per il ramo all'anno nelle circostanze" ideali ".


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Unread 11/18/2006, 09:35 AM   #200
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sorry Ed...grazie!


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