EcoTech Radion vs Aquaillumination Sol

[MedRed]

Originally Posted by pmrossetti

oh contrare, Ecotech says anything over 8" you lose the 250=par.

glad the AI could take the closeness. can the Radion?

remember what I posted about the light spread? If you have to raise an AI 12" above the tank to get light to reach the edges all while creating major shadows and still not adequately lighting the tank, but you get ridiculous par right in the middle of the tank, is that worth it?

When I hung my lights @ 12" I was happy that I could switch back to the stock optics and possibly sell my 70º optics. Even with 2 fixtures on a 24x24 tank, the AI's just weren't cutting it with the stock optics. I had to go through the hassle of switching back to the 70º optics and was very happy with it.

Originally Posted by SkullV

Get off this splash thing man. The Diode optics will not burst if splashed and all other electronics are sealed. Did you not see the photo of the internals in one of the many other radion threads you are posting in?

This.

[pmrossetti]

Originally Posted by MedRed

remember what I posted about the light spread? If you have to raise an AI 12" above the tank to get light to reach the edges all while creating major shadows and still not adequately lighting the tank, but you get ridiculous par right in the middle of the tank, is that worth it?

When I hung my lights @ 12" I was happy that I could switch back to the stock optics and possibly sell my 70º optics. Even with 2 fixtures on a 24x24 tank, the AI's just weren't cutting it with the stock optics. I had to go through the hassle of switching back to the 70º optics and was very happy with it.



This.

if true, then fine no problem. but to raise the question was quite legitimate as others had raised it as well. any light 8" awl is a legit concern.
a little too defensive.

[rtparty]

Originally Posted by mthomp

I looked at the radions at macna between my shifts there and i was impressed at first but after watching their coraless demos of the system I became less impressed. the red and greens seem like a waste of leds to me. I do not feel my coral will benefit from those colors in growth or color in fact it almost seems like it may wash out some of the color. with the AI being half the cost, having wireless access and with them changing how the light is focused, no more hot spots in the middle of the tank, I feel AI comes out on top once again.

Here is a good test, go get a 50/50 mix of ATI Blue Plus and ATI Aquablue bulbs. Put that over the tank and see what happens to colors. Now switch just ONE of the Aquablues for a Purple Plus. See the amazing difference in colors in your tank.

And all of that is with bulbs that have MUCH better spectrum than an AI units. I promise you that in the near future, you will see people ditching the blue:white combo for more warmth and more full spectrum.

It has happened with every lighting technology we have used over our tanks. LEDs aren't going to be any different.

[pmrossetti]

Originally Posted by rtparty

Here is a good test, go get a 50/50 mix of ATI Blue Plus and ATI Aquablue bulbs. Put that over the tank and see what happens to colors. Now switch just ONE of the Aquablues for a Purple Plus. See the amazing difference in colors in your tank.

And all of that is with bulbs that have MUCH better spectrum than an AI units. I promise you that in the near future, you will see people ditching the blue:white combo for more warmth and more full spectrum.

It has happened with every lighting technology we have used over our tanks. LEDs aren't going to be any different.

i'm sure your 100percent correct. i even read that one mfr is working with an led mfr on developing leds specifically for aquariums. neat,huh?

rt, did you see my post on the new Panorama? 240par at 24".

[MedRed]

FYI, buyorpheklights.com is now dark

[pmrossetti]

Originally Posted by MedRed

FYI, buyorpheklights.com is now dark

RC has clout.

[wesleyforbes2]

Following.

[JohnM99]

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmrossetti
yes,i'm not sure about this full spectrum thing yet.doesn't the ocean filter out the reds anyway?

but i love the moon cycles on the AI.

and they come in black now
The deep ocean does, but corals also live in very shallow water such as shown in "How rare is this" thread. Also, we don't look at our corals in the ocean. We try to create lighting that aesthetically appeals to us as well as benefit the corals.

Interesting points - water actually filters our colors faster than most people realize - although some reefs are in less than 10 feet of water (where they face other challenges such as avoiding UV damage) most reefs are deeper.

The filtering of red light is very noticeable at even 10 feet - and most is gone shortly after that - so it is true that the full spectrum lights give "unnatural" lighting spectra - but it is also true that we can benefit from that. Just try taking underwater photos without and with flash. If you go down 40-60 feet and try that, you will get very drab photos without flash, and beautiful colors with flash. So, MedRed's point about the use of a broader spectrum in home aquaria is very valid. This is just one more thing that makes a home aquarium very different from a real life reef, but nonetheless enjoyable.

Here is an interesting discussion of color underwater in case you are interested and haven't had the pleasure of diving.....
http://vasyfille.com/2009/09/28/dive_visiblespectrum/

[steely185]

Seems it got noticed, including this thread

Check reef builders website for the article on captive aquatics

[gcarroll]

Originally Posted by MedRed

FYI, buyorpheklights.com is now dark

And now the damage control and cover-up begins. Mike Maddox also changed his linked-in profile. I'm sure it won't be long until we hear a statement that he is no longer affiliated with the company, which will be easy to do since he was never supposedly affiliated with the company before. Oh the tangled web we weave!

[BonsaiNut]

Originally Posted by reefsafe

If you read his other threads you notice that he only like Orphek LEDS...a little digging revealed that he was a director at Orphek http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=us


and he owns the domain buyoprheklights.com

http://www.whois.net/whois/buyorpheklights.com.com

Reefsafe works for 60 Minutes Good job! The last thing this industry needs is a rotten apple spoiling things for personal gain. I LIKE the fact that new fixtures are coming out, and that each new fixture causes manufacturers to re-assess their prior designs, and to try to improve them. I am glad to hear that Orphek appears to be distancing themselves from this individual. With friends like this, who needs enemies?

[pmrossetti]

i wish we could get back to AI vs Radion.

[pciscott]

I think all the LED companies need to stop advertising par equivalents of a metal halides, as they only measure peak par and if you look at a spread graph they do not come close.

For most here this is a given, but for the new guy this is false advertisement and wrong. Can any of these companies say they put out as much usable light as a 250 halide per fixture?

I was at Macna and while the Radion light was very nicely put together, I did not see it over corals? They had extra modules they could have loaned to a coral vendor as they loan out pumps to many vendors to showcase product. Why would a company not put them over coral so our eyes could see the new spectrum at work?

Sanjay did a very nice talk on LED and while he did emphasize the fact that led lights would grow coral he did question the quality of light and spread compared to a metal halides.

One more note that was in Sanjay's graphs was the Radion put out less peak par and spread than an AI Sol Blue, why is this when it runs more watts and has a much higher price.

For those of you jumping in on the first round of Radion fixtures some pictures of the color with your AI units before you pull them down and the new lights to compare would be a treat. Even better a picture with half on one side AI and the other half Radion would be a FTS I would like to see.

I think the added colors will help with the spectrum the same as a couple T5 tubes would but at a premium for sure.

I also think the answer is in building single point multi color LED chips and think the new Kessel lights need some work, but have the rite idea. They offer multi color chips that include UV.

AI versus Radion, I wish either of them could boast the same amount of light as a 250 halides as their peek output comparison is pretty SHADY!

[ari5736]

From what I understand AI is coming out with warm white pucks, my thinking is that a few of these mixed with the exisiting pucks should really even out the color towards the colors in the upper part of the rainbow. As it stands now, I think their units are too cool without enough spectrum.
As for spread and par, I have mine mounted about 14" awl with all 40 degree optics and I have full coverage and still have to be very careful of not bleaching sps in the bottom of my 24" tall tank. While there is a lot of shadowing, I thought this was just LED lighting in general, and not sure if lowering the unit and changing to some 70 optics would change anything.

[pmrossetti]

Originally Posted by ari5736

From what I understand AI is coming out with warm white pucks, my thinking is that a few of these mixed with the exisiting pucks should really even out the color towards the colors in the upper part of the rainbow. As it stands now, I think their units are too cool without enough spectrum.
As for spread and par, I have mine mounted about 14" awl with all 40 degree optics and I have full coverage and still have to be very careful of not bleaching sps in the bottom of my 24" tall tank. While there is a lot of shadowing, I thought this was just LED lighting in general, and not sure if lowering the unit and changing to some 70 optics would change anything.

full coverage and shadowing? clarify?
tank size? how many AIs?

[Leonard]

Regarding light output, Advanced Aquarist will have empirical data published soon (on multiple popular LED units) that should settle a lot of the debate.

And regarding Orphek/MikeMaddox, there is a lot of misinformation circulating that we hope to clear up shortly.

[alrha]

Originally Posted by pmrossetti

i wish we could get back to AI vs Radion.

+1

Originally Posted by pciscott

Radion put out less peak par and spread than an AI Sol Blue, why is this when it runs more watts and has a much higher price.

Interesting.

[redhanded77]

I have a couple of buddies with the AI SOL BLUE, and their tanks are doing amazing. Their sps have awesome growth and great color. I asked them what they thought about this spectrum race in leds. They didn't seem to concerned with it, and said if anything, they would just a add a t5 bulb or two to cover the rest of the spectrum......rather than ditching their AI's and getting something new.

For me, Im in the market and Im kinda stuck on what to buy. The pricing on the SOL's look very good at the moment, and there are some awesome tanks out there that are running these leds.

[rodstar]

I can't add anything scientific to this debate, but I moved to AI SOL Blues in January.

My stats:
125g tank 72x18x24.
OLD Light: Current Outer Orbit Pro 3 x 250w 14k Phoenix MH 8 x 39w Actinic and Super Actinic UVL bulbs.
NEW Light: 6 AI SOL Blue running about 9 inches off the water at the following percentages: white: 45, blue: 54, Royal Blue 54

My coral never looked better and my growth was amazing.

In April, I tore down the whole set-up and moved everything into a 75g at a friend's house because we were moving. He has since moved that stuff into a 72" 90g frag tank. The corals continue to grow amazingly (fragging has commenced twice) and the colors are the best I have ever seen. He was able to raise the lights higher and is covering the same 72" with just 3 lights.

I went with 6 lights because I knew I was moving and my plan is to have multiple tanks and I bought ahead. Should have waited, but my wife gave permission at that point so I wanted to take advantage of it! Now, when I tell her I am adding more tanks I can say its just the tank (already have the lights!)

The bottom line is that I love my AI SOL Blue lights. I will be purchasing the wireless upgrade probably in the future once the new house is built. I will not be switching to the Radions. Not that they aren't nice. But, I like my AI lights.

[ari5736]

I have 3 SOLs over mounted 14" over a 72" tank, with all 40 degree optics. I don't have any area in the tank that is not lit well, or can't grow (or scorch)sps, except under the areas underneath a rock or coral. This was best/worst exemplified soon after I switched from Metal halides, all of my sps colonies had die back on their undersides, where apparently the metal halides were able to somehow reflect upon the colony to sustain it, the leds cause shadowing. I guess its just the nature of leds.

Originally Posted by pmrossetti

full coverage and shadowing? clarify?
tank size? how many AIs?

[amheck]

I wish someone would come out with a good T5/LED hybrid system. I think we'd have the best of both worlds then

[strittmatter]

Originally Posted by amheck

I wish someone would come out with a good T5/LED hybrid system. I think we'd have the best of both worlds then

Go to reef builder. Coralvue has one.

[CinciReefer]

Originally Posted by mojo~

WEll I can say after seeing the radions at MACNA they are nice fixtures. Kind of cool. But I can also say they had 3 on a 6ft tank just like most would do with AI fixtures. I dont think they really cover much better than a AI fixture from what I saw. Both are really nice units for sure. I can say either way you go you will be happy. I am still feeling that the AI is still the better bang for your buck.

Just my two cents after playing with them both and the new AI fixture as well.

I have a 210 Gallon 6 foot tank and have been researching the AI's for a while now and it seems to me most people would recommend 6 AI sol's for a 6 foot tank including AI themselves. And now that I am researching the Radion's it seems I may be able to just get 3 of them for my tank. The difference in price is considerable even after the AI price drop.

Roughly $700 difference in price plus all the upside of the Radions: Wireless technology is really sweet, who doesn't want less wires? RGB color spectrum sounds good to me, I thought the white and blue only wasn't so great and figured that was just a matter of time till that was improved (glad it was sooner rather than later). Wider light spread is a good thing because it was one of the biggest complaints from AI Sol owners was limited spread/shadowing. And I don't want to hang the lights a foot off the tank to compensate for that lack of spread from the optics.

Until I see or find another fixture that does this better I'm on the Radion bandwagon. I will be buying new lights soon. BTW I did really like the Vertex light systems too and if they weren't so outrageously priced I probably would have already bought one or at least they would have been up there with the SOL's on my list of possibles.

[pmrossetti]

Cinci, how do you plan to hang them? i like them too.

[Bellagio]

Can anybody answer to my questions - I cant find that informations:

This PAR reading was made:
- in the air
- in the water
- what about distance between PAR meter and ligth unit?
I think that is VERY important when you compare this two brands.
Thanks!!

Belagio