Fish sick or normal???

Sohal Tang Tim · 11/19/2018, 08:16 AM

Hi THere... I have a powder brown that is acting funny....
last night he was swimming at the far end of the current from the return pipe in circles.... This morning he was in a corner but when lights came on he came out centre tank..ate but not vigourously...had a few flakes of spirulina and a few pellets that he very casually took of the top of the water but...he missed more then he took in...like he was not that hungry.... Now he is swimming in the centre of the tank very slowly, not grazing on the rocks...just swimming near the current of the return as if he is tired...but absolutely no sign of any parasite on him ..looks absolutely perfect other then his behaviour????
The tank is fairly new...there is a slight bit of amonia reading .25 ....All other fish including a yellow tang and clowns and blennies and wrasse are doing 100%...He has only been in the tank for 2 days the powder brown..he had been in copper for 3 weeks I am told by the store...and ate extremely vigourously at the store...sure does not eat that vigourously now...??
Your thoughts please. Thanks, Tim

Louis Z · 11/19/2018, 09:04 AM

Have you ever used a denitrifying bacteria supplement . Turbostart or other brand . Do you have enough surface area for bacteria to colonize ? As in live rock or other substrate like marine pure ? . You don’t say how big the tank is. You can always add Seachem’s Prime to bind the ammonia. It will take up to 10 to 20 ml of prime to 20 gal of water to bind the ammonia . That would have to be done daily with testing until your bacteria colony increases to handle all that bioload. Did you quarantine or treat the other fish before adding to your display tank or did they go thru the same copper treatment at the store too? Was the powder brown behaving that way at the store? Any bullying from the others ?

Sohal Tang Tim · 11/19/2018, 09:16 AM

1. Zero bullying from other fish...
2. tank is 60 gallons
3. 40 lbs of dead rock
4. 1 inch Caribsea Arrive Alive Sand
5. Dr Tim's One and Only put in 5 days ago
6. Stability and Bacter 7 put in 8 days ago
7. Prime added 15 minutes ago but will increase the dosage to max

The fish was in a 20 gallon aquarium at the store..I did not plan on adding a powder brown for at least another month but he was begging me to take him the fish was...and ..so I bit of impluse thought the fish would be better off in my 60...but..the other guy had copper in his tank and I of course dont.

Tim

Sohal Tang Tim · 11/19/2018, 09:20 AM

Louis, the prime says 5 ml per 50 gallon and says may dose up to 5 times that in emergencies... so that would be 25 mls per 50 gallons... May I ask, with due respect,
where you got the number 20 ml per 20 gallon???? Thx, Tim

Sohal Tang Tim · 11/19/2018, 09:35 AM

Here is a video of the powder brown...he is moving quicker now then he was an hour ago...perhaps the PRIME helped? But he is again swimming at the end of the current from the return and is not really grazing the rocks or sand like a tang would...What you think> Should I fish him out??? There are absolutley NO signs on his body of anything.

HumbleFish · 11/19/2018, 10:22 AM

0.25ppm ammonia is 0.25 TOO MUCH. It should be zero at all times.

Dosing Prime will help but it is only a temporary fix. I would add some bacteria in a bottle (e.g. Bio-spira) to bolster your nitrifying bacteria levels.

Louis Z · 11/19/2018, 11:51 PM

I had to do an emergency . Gone for two days and power out on Qt not sure just that plug went out . Went anoxic or maybe a combination in addition to spike in ammonia . Had a fish die and I think that was the beginning of spike . Didn’t have water mixed so I added 4 capfuls to bring 1ppm down to .25 ppm .i mixed some water. But that slow process I saw the fish breathing heavily down to normal breathing in 2 to 3 hours after adding prime . That prime allowed me to find a store far from me open on sunday for mixed water . I then did a 60 % water change . But if I hadn’t done that emergency dose I may have lost all of them . Still waiting to see if they have long term effects of ammonia spike

Louis Z · 11/20/2018, 12:07 AM

As for your fish , Many times breathing hard is a sign of parasites on the gills , anoxia, or ammonia . If you rule one by one out , It’s makes decision easier . In your case I can’t tell if parasites or ammonia. Some fish are more sensitive to ammonia than others. Just because others look fine doesn’t mean they are not affected . To me pygmy angels are very sensitive . I don’t know about all tangs or If powder browns are or are not. could you do a water change to lessen ammonia . I would remove that brown to a HT and start copper again . I hate copper but that eliminates either velvet or ick . As for brook , acriflavine and formaldehyde dip . Reducing ammonia then may help you decide if you will treat the fish or not . If it’s velvet you really have to act fast. If any sign of velvet , I would 5min FW Dip to a HT and then slowly add copper over a couple of days to 1.5 . Then you are back to square one with keeping ammonia in check .

11/19/2018, 08:16 AM	#1
Sohal Tang Tim Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Collingwood , ON, Canada Posts: 928	Fish sick or normal??? Hi THere... I have a powder brown that is acting funny.... last night he was swimming at the far end of the current from the return pipe in circles.... This morning he was in a corner but when lights came on he came out centre tank..ate but not vigourously...had a few flakes of spirulina and a few pellets that he very casually took of the top of the water but...he missed more then he took in...like he was not that hungry.... Now he is swimming in the centre of the tank very slowly, not grazing on the rocks...just swimming near the current of the return as if he is tired...but absolutely no sign of any parasite on him ..looks absolutely perfect other then his behaviour???? The tank is fairly new...there is a slight bit of amonia reading .25 ....All other fish including a yellow tang and clowns and blennies and wrasse are doing 100%...He has only been in the tank for 2 days the powder brown..he had been in copper for 3 weeks I am told by the store...and ate extremely vigourously at the store...sure does not eat that vigourously now...?? Your thoughts please. Thanks, Tim __________________ "My God Reefs are Gorgeous!" Current Tank Info: 160 gallon reef Last edited by Sohal Tang Tim; 11/19/2018 at 09:11 AM.

11/19/2018, 09:16 AM	#3
Sohal Tang Tim Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Collingwood , ON, Canada Posts: 928	Thanks Louis 1. Zero bullying from other fish... 2. tank is 60 gallons 3. 40 lbs of dead rock 4. 1 inch Caribsea Arrive Alive Sand 5. Dr Tim's One and Only put in 5 days ago 6. Stability and Bacter 7 put in 8 days ago 7. Prime added 15 minutes ago but will increase the dosage to max The fish was in a 20 gallon aquarium at the store..I did not plan on adding a powder brown for at least another month but he was begging me to take him the fish was...and ..so I bit of impluse thought the fish would be better off in my 60...but..the other guy had copper in his tank and I of course dont. Tim __________________ "My God Reefs are Gorgeous!" Current Tank Info: 160 gallon reef

11/19/2018, 09:20 AM	#4
Sohal Tang Tim Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Collingwood , ON, Canada Posts: 928	Louis, the prime says 5 ml per 50 gallon and says may dose up to 5 times that in emergencies... so that would be 25 mls per 50 gallons... May I ask, with due respect, where you got the number 20 ml per 20 gallon???? Thx, Tim __________________ "My God Reefs are Gorgeous!" Current Tank Info: 160 gallon reef

11/19/2018, 09:35 AM	#5
Sohal Tang Tim Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Collingwood , ON, Canada Posts: 928	Here is a video of the powder brown...he is moving quicker now then he was an hour ago...perhaps the PRIME helped? But he is again swimming at the end of the current from the return and is not really grazing the rocks or sand like a tang would...What you think> Should I fish him out??? There are absolutley NO signs on his body of anything. __________________ "My God Reefs are Gorgeous!" Current Tank Info: 160 gallon reef

11/19/2018, 11:51 PM	#7
Louis Z Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Montgomery Posts: 1,257	I had to do an emergency . Gone for two days and power out on Qt not sure just that plug went out . Went anoxic or maybe a combination in addition to spike in ammonia . Had a fish die and I think that was the beginning of spike . Didn’t have water mixed so I added 4 capfuls to bring 1ppm down to .25 ppm .i mixed some water. But that slow process I saw the fish breathing heavily down to normal breathing in 2 to 3 hours after adding prime . That prime allowed me to find a store far from me open on sunday for mixed water . I then did a 60 % water change . But if I hadn’t done that emergency dose I may have lost all of them . Still waiting to see if they have long term effects of ammonia spike Last edited by Louis Z; 11/20/2018 at 12:09 AM. Reason: Wrong Number of capfuls

11/19/2018, 09:04 AM	#2
Louis Z Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Montgomery Posts: 1,257	Have you ever used a denitrifying bacteria supplement . Turbostart or other brand . Do you have enough surface area for bacteria to colonize ? As in live rock or other substrate like marine pure ? . You don’t say how big the tank is. You can always add Seachem’s Prime to bind the ammonia. It will take up to 10 to 20 ml of prime to 20 gal of water to bind the ammonia . That would have to be done daily with testing until your bacteria colony increases to handle all that bioload. Did you quarantine or treat the other fish before adding to your display tank or did they go thru the same copper treatment at the store too? Was the powder brown behaving that way at the store? Any bullying from the others ?

11/19/2018, 10:22 AM	#6
HumbleFish Moved On Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 4,757	0.25ppm ammonia is 0.25 TOO MUCH. It should be zero at all times. Dosing Prime will help but it is only a temporary fix. I would add some bacteria in a bottle (e.g. Bio-spira) to bolster your nitrifying bacteria levels.

11/20/2018, 12:07 AM	#8
Louis Z Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Montgomery Posts: 1,257	As for your fish , Many times breathing hard is a sign of parasites on the gills , anoxia, or ammonia . If you rule one by one out , It’s makes decision easier . In your case I can’t tell if parasites or ammonia. Some fish are more sensitive to ammonia than others. Just because others look fine doesn’t mean they are not affected . To me pygmy angels are very sensitive . I don’t know about all tangs or If powder browns are or are not. could you do a water change to lessen ammonia . I would remove that brown to a HT and start copper again . I hate copper but that eliminates either velvet or ick . As for brook , acriflavine and formaldehyde dip . Reducing ammonia then may help you decide if you will treat the fish or not . If it’s velvet you really have to act fast. If any sign of velvet , I would 5min FW Dip to a HT and then slowly add copper over a couple of days to 1.5 . Then you are back to square one with keeping ammonia in check .