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Old 09/12/2017, 09:06 PM   #26
karimwassef
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Thanks. I did it to spread the weight to avoid making the slab impossibly expensive.


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Old 09/12/2017, 09:09 PM   #27
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you should visit my main thread... love getting more crazies' ideas together

here's the slab thread http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...2644382&page=6

and the main one http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...589632&page=25


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Old 09/13/2017, 05:56 PM   #28
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In the words of undercover brother"SOLID". That stand will be as strong as a brick poo house. I would suspect it will outlast the tank, maybe the house itself which in my mind is a good thing if we're looking at supporting 8 tons of water.


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Old 09/13/2017, 09:12 PM   #29
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Just curious, why not use steel imbeded in the foundation? Wood just seems a little hackey at this scale, and it's a lot of work for no gain (or cost benefit) vs steel.


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Old 09/13/2017, 10:58 PM   #30
karimwassef
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cost. I can't afford a custom steel frame at this scale.
competency. I don't know how to DIY a steel frame.

I considered concrete block, but they add weight to the structure and I needed to reduce the pressure on the slab.

wood I can afford, is lightweight and I can DIY.


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Old 09/14/2017, 06:56 AM   #31
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I added a walk through video of the build on my main thread

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...589632&page=25

If you're structural-design and DIY biases, please take a look at how the support comes together.


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Old 09/15/2017, 01:36 PM   #32
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Why not pour a concrete form and apply plywood on the outside for the looks? You can still run the pipe in the concrete and might be less of a head ache in the end. IMO


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Old 09/15/2017, 03:04 PM   #33
karimwassef
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It would be too heavy. My first solution was concrete block with rebar tied to the slab and filled with concrete... cheap and relatively easy.

Unfortunately, the cost of the slab exploded to $20k to support the weight of the tank, concrete, etc...

I also got the finger waving of experts who advised me that I'm going to kill myself using concrete... that the slab will crack and I'm going to fail miserably (and die)...

So- in the interest of controlling weight, and cost, and sanity, and life ... I went with what I know.


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Old 09/17/2017, 07:26 PM   #34
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How about the precast concrete double T-sections that they use for parking lot floors and such?

Like these http://www.oldcastleprecastspokane.c...s/DSC_0001.JPG

I have no clue what these cost, but they are almost certainly strong enough and might be workable for your application...


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Old 09/17/2017, 07:40 PM   #35
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That's commercial construction

That's a whole other cost level


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Old 09/18/2017, 10:21 AM   #36
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I'm a structural engineer. I don't think you need 3 layers of plywood at bottom, but if you have it cheap, I suppose why not? How high is the water? I wouldn't span the plywood more than 2 feet without a 2x4 support joist, and I wouldn't span the 2x4 support joists more than 4-5 feet without a load bearing wall/post at each end. This will result in a super overbuild stand, but it would be my preference to limit deflection of the plywood bottom.

I'm curious, you have what is effectively a solid 2x4 wood bottom at one end where the spans are shorter, and at the other end, you have no joists? I really recommend adding at least 2x4 at 16" on center at the other end, especially since it has the longest span. Having a super strong base on one side of the tank and very light framing on the other side makes no sense, what works on one side should work everywhere, and I would note that I do not trust it to work. I would also recommend having the center load bearing support at the other end as well...if that's not possible due to sump or other issue, provide a network of 4x beams (deeper than 3.5" section).

The user that mentioned the pipe penetrations through the 2x4 members is absolutely correct. The amount of load those members can support will be tremendously reduced. shear capacity of those members at the penetration will be reduced by what looks like 80% or so, bending capacity, most like 50%.

For a tank this size, I would personally use 2x6 (or possible 2x4 @ 12" on center, with more support lines), and drop the plumbing below the framing, with absolutely no penetrations through the joists. Can you not add a support line on either side of the central plumbing line? The way it's currently framed you have a central double 2x4 spanning from center support out front, to the single 2x4 in the rear that is penetrated. You really need to add more support in this area somewhere.

Another note, your support lines are 2x4 and they will be clad with plywood? You should construct your supports similar to a typical wall, they will be much stronger that way and you'll use less wood. The way you have your 2x4 oriented makes them weak. The plywood should be attached to the small dimension of the 2x4, not the large dimension. As shown, the support walls can buckle out of plane much more easily. (Note, I've just seen some renderings further down the first page that appear to correct this issue)

Sorry if I've been blunt or offensive, just want you to be safe! I'm sure some of the above was not clear, let me know if you need more clarification. Good luck!


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Old 09/18/2017, 10:33 AM   #37
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AWESOME! Thanks. Actually, I think I've corrected a lot of what you said -

 photo 2_zps5xvggruu.jpg

 photo 1_zpsgj8cl8nx.jpg

 photo 1_zps0us3tqdw.jpg

 photo 3_zpstmdzqqvu.jpg

 photo 4_zpsi3mozpyp.jpg

I also have a link of a walk through video for the whole build that I'll link




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Last edited by karimwassef; 09/18/2017 at 10:42 AM.
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Old 09/18/2017, 10:43 AM   #38
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The cavity has to be large enough for me to enter and work as well as support the sump and plumbing.

I've put 2x4s on 12" wherever I could


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Old 09/18/2017, 10:44 AM   #39
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The largest plywood window span is where the plumbing connects at 2'7" x 3'


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Last edited by karimwassef; 09/18/2017 at 11:18 AM.
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Old 09/18/2017, 11:05 AM   #40
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I'll take some pictures with dimensions to help.

The plywood isn't cheap, but with a 12'x8' tank, I can get a single sheet to cover the span.

So I use 3 full sheets and overlay glue to create a solid sheet. I had a thought to pre-stress the sheets by slightly bowing them upwards as I glue them but I decided to avoid that complexity and risk.

So 3 sheets then an overlapping 3 sheets cut to cover the seams, then 3 sheets over that covering those seams, then 3 sheets over those cover those seams. So 12 sheets in total at 3" thick with all seams double covered. That's $480 in plywood for the base!

Not cheap, but I think it should hold a lot of weight, especially with 2x4s under it again.


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Old 09/18/2017, 11:17 AM   #41
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 photo 0_zpswbbeklmg.jpg


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Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
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Old 09/18/2017, 11:23 AM   #42
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the side doors are big at 4' 10" but it's a cramped area that I need to crawl into. The whole structure sits "underground" since the surrounding floor is actually raised up (clearer to see in the video).

I've also created access "tunnels" through the long end, but there's a lot of plumbing. I'm not a little guy, so I'm sensitive to creating enough maneuvering room to turn a wrench!

A couple of those fittings are large. The overflow is 4" diameter and the emergency drain is 3". The other pipes are 2". Those all take substantial effort, in my experience, to work with. So - need some elbow room


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