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Unread 09/09/2017, 03:08 PM   #1
karimwassef
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Wood base - heavy load 17000 lbs

The water volume is 2000 gallons. There will also be the weight of wood, glass, concrete, sand, and rocks. Plus the occasional 200lb human who might need to walk inside.

It's 12' x 8' peninsula.

The top of the base is also the bottom of the tank and made of a stack of 4 plywood layers 3/4" each = 3" thick plywood. This will be encased in epoxy.

The base is a matrix of 2x4s inside a 3/4" plywood skin. The skin also doubles as backup my on one side and a pressure lip against the glass bottoms.

Looking for feedback
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Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
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Unread 09/09/2017, 03:13 PM   #2
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I have a lot of support to distribute the weight on the concrete slab - otherwise, the slab cost skyrockets


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Unread 09/11/2017, 10:38 AM   #3
karimwassef
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Little help?

I'm sure there's plenty of structural experts out there?


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Unread 09/11/2017, 10:51 AM   #4
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IMO...
Overkill on the front/back ends and under built in the middle..
From what I see the whole center of the tank is only supported by 4 2x's on end..
Looks like it could just fold in half..

But you are on your own here with that "monstrocity"..

I would be using more typical/proven subfloor/joist type framing if I was to do it..

All those horizontal 2xs are just held by screws in sheer too..
I don't like it personally..
Looks more like a "throw a crap ton of 2x's at it and hope I put enough" than a well thought out/Engineered support..

IMO of course..


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Unread 09/11/2017, 12:35 PM   #5
karimwassef
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Your opinion counts, my friend.

It may look over-built in the ends but I was solving for the pressure distribution on the slab below. I'm not concerned with it holding up the tank. I needed to get below 700lb/ft2 (4psi)

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...2644382&page=6

The middle is more open for accessibility. It's too deep to reach into so I have to physically fit under it.

The studs look sparse in the middle but the sides are 3/4" plywood skin. I considered adding plywood in other locations for cross-bracing.


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Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
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Unread 09/11/2017, 12:43 PM   #6
karimwassef
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Looks like it could just fold in half..
The top is 3" of plywood sheets (4 x 3/4") glued and screwed. I think that the water weight in the center will be offset by the water weight on the ends?

But you are on your own here with that "monstrocity"..
Thanks. Don't call my baby a monster... she's just misunderstood.

I would be using more typical/proven subfloor/joist type framing if I was to do it..
So more frequent beams? Use a 2x10 for the joists? Details...

All those horizontal 2xs are just held by screws in sheer too..
for it to shear, the plywood skin would have to rupture in tension. I didn't consider dynamic loading but outside of an earthquake ...?

Looks more like a "throw a crap ton of 2x's at it and hope I put enough" than a well thought out/Engineered support..
Well- I don't usually hear "didn't think enough about it. Not engineered enough" but I'll take it . Like I said, it was about managing psi on the slab.


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Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
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Unread 09/11/2017, 02:12 PM   #7
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Good grief man, have you lost your mind ...... or maybe I'm just jealous

I am not a structural engineer - well, not an engineer of any kind - but I think if it were me I would think about incorporating LVL's in the mix. I built my current stand, and my new build stand, using laminated plywood beams and they've proven to be very effective. Compressive strength of 2x4 is very high, but the lateral strength and shear not so good.


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Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs
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Unread 09/11/2017, 02:23 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ca1ore View Post
Good grief man, have you lost your mind ......
.
You never seen a post from karimwassef before?

Out in left field is their happy place..

Someone has way too much time (and money) on their hands...


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Unread 09/11/2017, 02:41 PM   #9
karimwassef
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Actually neither money nor time - just an over abundance of passion. If I had money and time, would it take me three years to design?

I love plywood- that's why the top and sides are plywood.

Studs are just best under compression or as beams. They're also cheaper when you're buying tons of wood (which this is)

My miniature model is made up of 1/2" plywood sections for the base to replicate the 2x4s. It was the closest scale model structure.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...589632&page=25

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Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
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Unread 09/11/2017, 02:43 PM   #10
karimwassef
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By the way - I need help. If you're interested, I'm open to people coming in to assist build it

*** add legal stuff here that says do this at your own risk... no liability for me... only crazies need come.


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Unread 09/11/2017, 02:45 PM   #11
karimwassef
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You see the concrete false floor? Even with the holes, it'll weigh 500-700lbs...

The glass panel weigh 400lbs each.

I only have 3 people so far (myself included) and one is my 70yo+ dad, God bless him!


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Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
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Unread 09/11/2017, 02:48 PM   #12
karimwassef
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Back to the base... I'm adding more cross-beams and a couple of center plywood sheets.


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Unread 09/11/2017, 10:51 PM   #13
karimwassef
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ok... update

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Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
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Unread 09/11/2017, 10:56 PM   #14
karimwassef
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This will actually make it easier to epoxy the whole thing.

The combination of studs and plywood should minimize shear.

The additional cross-members should minimize sag in the middle section.

Also, the green studs on the concrete will be bolted down into the slab.

More feedback??


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Unread 09/12/2017, 05:21 AM   #15
jubei2006
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I think sheer may still be a problem as all the 2x are oriented in the same direction. You are counting on plywood screwed to 2x alone to keep the stand from folding up on you. If you were to have a wave maker the pressure of water pulsing on the side of the tank may overcome the holding power of screws and glue. I would feel better if part of the 2x were oriented east-west as opposed to all of them being north-south. But this is coming from a professional idiot fwiw


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Unread 09/12/2017, 05:46 AM   #16
psidriven
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Not sure if its just in the illustration, but drilling holes that big in the horizontal beams to run your pipes might weaken them too much. Maybe run the pipes underneath the beams instead of through them.


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Unread 09/12/2017, 07:17 AM   #17
karimwassef
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That's why I'm didn't run those 2x4 beams before. There isn't enough clearance from the top of the "sump lead in" tank to access the valves if I run the pipes lower. I would have to drop the sump another 3".


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Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
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Unread 09/12/2017, 07:24 AM   #18
karimwassef
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jubei2006 View Post
I think sheer may still be a problem as all the 2x are oriented in the same direction. You are counting on plywood screwed to 2x alone to keep the stand from folding up on you. If you were to have a wave maker the pressure of water pulsing on the side of the tank may overcome the holding power of screws and glue. I would feel better if part of the 2x were oriented east-west as opposed to all of them being north-south. But this is coming from a professional idiot fwiw
That's what the plywood skin is for.

I need to access doors to be large enough for me to fit through.

I can look at adding more plywood panels in that direction


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Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
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Unread 09/12/2017, 05:09 PM   #19
karimwassef
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how's this?

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there's plywood around each stud section as before

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Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape

Last edited by karimwassef; 09/12/2017 at 05:15 PM.
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Unread 09/12/2017, 05:42 PM   #20
jubei2006
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I like those footings much better, whether you have potential bowing north to south or east to west, you have substantial cross bracing to prevent that force from poping 2x like tooth picks. Guess now it would be making sure there are no point stresses on the tank bottom. Think i remember you saying the bottom was epoxied plywood? If done right that should help distribute the weight evenly, then major force to negate would be compressive downward force. Think there are formulas on line to see how much compressive force that tank would place and how much compression the 2x would handle


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Unread 09/12/2017, 06:51 PM   #21
karimwassef
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The largest open span is ~ 2' x 3'


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Unread 09/12/2017, 07:09 PM   #22
karimwassef
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also, 3" of plywood (4 layers at 3/4") glued together should make a very solid laminated structure. While plywood is not strongest in that direction, being 3" thick makes it about as thick as a stud. With another 3.5" for the 2x4s underneath means that there's 6.5" of wood holding it up.

If you consider that the water is only 27" max, that pressure is lower than most tanks that are sitting on particle board boxes with bigger spans than 24" x 36"...


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Unread 09/12/2017, 07:22 PM   #23
karimwassef
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this is the limitation on studs...

 photo 1_zps0us3tqdw.jpg

I only have about 4.5" of clearance from the sump-run to the stud above... It was 8" before I added those 2x4s.


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Unread 09/12/2017, 08:49 PM   #24
karimwassef
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I moved the plumbing wherever I could.. in the case of two of the returns, I ran them into the settling filter and out the sump-run...

The result is that none of the beams are compromised...

Wherever I could, I added more beams and studs without blocking access

I added a maneuverable dummy (not me ) to see if I could fit.

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Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
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Unread 09/12/2017, 09:01 PM   #25
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That strikes me as super crazy overbuilt, but I'm just a hack and it's better over than under.

If I lived near you, I'd be there in a heartbeat. I love being involved in other people's crazy ideas. Nearly as much fun as my own crazy ideas, but with less personal risk!


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