Canister filters ill-advised? Please rate my setup!

[LouB]

So I've been constantly wrestling with my setup ever since I bought it and I don't know whether or not to continue to regret, upgrade or let things roll and relax. Would appreciate your advice...

I'm new to the hobby, and I bought a 54g aqueon corner tank and stand for the space in my TV/living room that we were trying to decorate and improve. I don't really have a sufficient space anywhere else in my house for another tank. As part of this setup, I was sold a FLUVAL 306 canister filter - I use chemi pure blue in this as well as the other media. I have 2 powerheads, a 150 watt heater, and I recently added an eshopps psk75 skimmer. I have 30 pounds of live rock and 25 pounds of reef rock sitting on a sand substrate.

I currently have 1 coral beauty, 2 juvenile ocellaris clowns, 1 firefish, 1 orange striped cardinal and 1 diamond goby. I also have various LPS and soft corals.

Now, I can't go into any store other than the one where I originally bought my setup without everyone telling me how bad my setup is and that I need to upgrade to a new system since my current filtration is totally inadequate and will ultimately cause my tank to fail. The tank is for the corner of our tv/living room, and my wife will not allow any set up that exceeds that space under the stand or is too loud. She already bristles at the eshopps which is decently quiet IMO.

Is it true that I am destined for tank failure with my type of setup? Is all lost? Should I continue to listen to these people who tell me my system sucks and is just a nitrate factory? Even if true, are there no workarounds? I've put in close to 3K already and would be ****ed if I was sold the wrong thing but still want to know anyway...your thought are much appreciated! thanks in advance!

[Uncle99]

I have a similar set up on my 70G, you have LR and sand, so I do not see the problem.
However you need to keep it clean. Maybe consider carbon dose which will feed the beneficial bacteria. You don't have to have any fancy equipment to be really successful, just great water, good flow, correct spectrum lighting.

[LouB]

What up Uncle...how long have you had your similar setup running? The lfs person today was telling me I won't be able to get nitrates out of the tank...that they'll end up collecting in the sand and on the rock...

Curious what sort of carbon dosing you do? I was just reading the article about dosing vodka which seems to reduce nitrates and phosphates...ever tried that?

[LouB]

btw, should have added I've got two current orbit IC bars on my tank...I'm very diligent about doing weekly 20% water changes, and this weekend I did at 40%...

[Reefiez]

your filtration is perfectly fine imo

your rocks and substrate provide more than enough surface area for biological filtration, breaking down ammonia and nitrites

your skimmer will do a good job to remove some organics, and is essential if you decide to dose carbon in the future to further reduce nitrates/phosphates

i think a lot of people will advise you to take the canister filter offline, since it is such a good mechanical filter, it traps a lot of crap inside and ends up adding unwanted nutrients back into the tank (unless you maintain is VERY VERY regularly)

[billdogg]

I kept a 60g cube for 22 years. I kept, over the years, everything except SPS corals, and when I finally upgraded to LED, was even able to start my adventure with them. I used a canister filter filled with carbon and coarse crushed coral for chemical and biological filtration, and dual biowheel HOB for mechanical filtration and the rock in the tank as biological filtration. No skimmer. I did add a TLF reactor for GFO about 10 years in. As long as you keep on top of the maintenance for the canister there is no reason whatsoever that it won't do it's job just fine.

Are there "better" ways? Well, there are other ways, certainly, to achieve the same goal. But are they better? Not if your situation dictates the setup you are using.

As for the LFS telling you that nonsense? FIND ANOTHER LFS!!!

hth!

[PitViper]

The people at the LFS are idiots. I’ve had a pretty successful run so far and I’m fairly new to this. Ok well really new. I have perfect water and everything is where it should be. Including nitrates. I love canister filters. Just keep up on the maintenance for your particular canister. And you will be fine. By the way I’m running a fluval 206 on a 10 gallon nano set up. I have one clown 2 porcelain crabs and 3 Turbos. Fast little buggers those are. But anyway. If I had a picture of everything I would put it here for you to see. What you have is fine. Again just keep up on the maintenance.

PITVIPER

[LauraGreenImp]

For many years (4ish) we managed our 150tall with an Eheim canister. Do I like having a sump & skimmer better? Yes. But! Obvs not necessary, as others have already mentioned. We have a ‘tank budget’ - everyone has a different situation. You do you, and... FIND ANOTHER LFS.


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[LouB]

Why do you like sump and slimmer better?

[hersheyb]

Your setup will be fine, just have to keep that canister filter clean. Sump is prefer because there's more room for you to hide your equipment away from the display tank ex. skimmer, heater..

[Sk8r]

The biggest problem with a canister is instability in the water quality and nitrate level. Stony coral is going to want a nitrate level of 5 or lower, and small-polyp stony (sps sticks) is even fussier. The up and down of bacterial levels, feast or famine, in cleaning the filter, is harder on the corals. A sump and skimmer does what a reef needs, which is a stable nitrate level while removing the amino acid waste from the water. Fish do fine with a canister. I'd also ask, since you list lps, whether you are supplementing calcium. Those corals should be dividing and multiplying actively, and will need it.

[LouB]

Sk8r...that's one of the things the lfs says...that it's because I have corals the canister is insufficient...the lfs has also said that nitrates will build up over time and there's no way to remove them from the sand or live rock where they will accumulate. This lead to the comment about being destined for tank failure, either in 2 months or 10 years...When she quoted this range, I just felt like it was all nonsense and it was more about the racket of trying to sell me a new system. In any event, like I said, I started reading about vodka dosing and apparently you can get rid of nitrates and phosphates that might accumulate in any event...

As for your question about calcium..I do not add it but my calcium levels are fine, and the zoanthids I have are multiplying.

[LouB]

by the way, I do weekly water changes, normally of 10% and regularly clean my canister as well...

[Sk8r]

You should be ok --- likely the zoas will win and the stonies will not, but tanks differ even with whatever equipment: zoas like 'rich' water better than stony does and tolerate more nitrate than stony. Be aware that with carbon dosing you're going to have to clean out more often: gets pretty gunky as it multiplies bacteria.

[LouB]

Have you eve done the vodka dosing before?

[billdogg]

As I said in my first post, yes you absolutely can keep a reef tank using a canister as part of your filtration. Remember that it is the live rock (or rock that will soon become live) that provides the lion's share of your biological filtration. Use the canister as a place to put carbon and other media, rather than is a mechanical filter. It worked great that way for me for a very long time.

I went to a local (mostly) online retailer a number of years ago just to look around and get a feel for the place. I started talking with an employee, and as I described my setup, he immediately started telling me the very same things your LFS told you. I let him go on for a good 15 minutes about how I had to tear things down and do it his way or FAIL FAIL FAIL. When he finally stopped to take a breath, I let him know that the system in such dire straits was at least as old as he was and was doing quite nicely, tyvm. I haven't been back. A shame, really. They had a whole bunch of nice clams at very good prices, but I just can't justify spending my $$$ there.

[accel]

I am a newbie here as well with reef keeping but I am not a newbie in the grand scheme of things.

The problem with your LFS is they failed to communicate better and assess your situation better. The advise is ko different when a computer expert explains to an ordinary guy how his computer setup is doomed to fail when it comes to long time performance and malware susceptibility. Not everyone can be an expert in handling computers. Not everyone can buy the latest gizmos and program hardcore. Average people just want enough to go on with their lives. They might be average on one thing but they aren't average on other things. It sucks that LFS treated you like a total noob. Her intentions might be good (the same manner with that computer expert) but at the end of the day how you communicate things can either inspire or despair people.

I can't give you much advise with reef keeping. I am fortunate I have the budget at least. At the end of the day the one who succeeds is the person who never gives up. Remember whatever you do, there's always a person who'd say negative about your action. I had been there a gazillion of times.

[OldReefGuy]

OP...yes. You should be fine. Just keep up with your maintenance on the canister and keep doing 10% wc....

[Sk8r]

Very major point with a canister filter in the under-tank space: get a 5 gallon bucket and set the filter in THAT to operate---some brands can fail and leak, and it will save your floor.

I have run a 30 gal marine-only FOWLR with only a dual Penguin filter, so yes, just don't overfeed and watch cleanliness.

[Guy2112]

I went to a lfs to get some supplies for the tank that was given to me. 36 bow front. Eheim canister and an hob. He told me impossible. This is what you need. He showed me a $3,000.00 set up. I left and went to another store. He helped me and explained what I had to do. I bought everything I needed from him. Live rock, salt, etc.
My tank is growing and doing well. My guess is because I take care of it. Water changes, clean the canister every week. I haven't started with any corals yet, soon. Opinions are like *******s, everyone's got one. I'm actually looking for a bigger tank and I will set it up with a sump. Which I have no idea about. Isn't that one of the best parts about this. Learning something new. Life is good.

[ca1ore]

People at the LFS are just like the people here. Some know what they are talking about other don't: some advance reefkeeping myths, others don't. Just remember they are ultimately trying to sell you somethings so caveat emptor.

Also keep in mind that the only difference between a cannister and a reactor is that the former may have a pump attached. What matters is what you use it for.

[Jesterrace]

Originally Posted by LouB

So I've been constantly wrestling with my setup ever since I bought it and I don't know whether or not to continue to regret, upgrade or let things roll and relax. Would appreciate your advice...

I'm new to the hobby, and I bought a 54g aqueon corner tank and stand for the space in my TV/living room that we were trying to decorate and improve. I don't really have a sufficient space anywhere else in my house for another tank. As part of this setup, I was sold a FLUVAL 306 canister filter - I use chemi pure blue in this as well as the other media. I have 2 powerheads, a 150 watt heater, and I recently added an eshopps psk75 skimmer. I have 30 pounds of live rock and 25 pounds of reef rock sitting on a sand substrate.

I currently have 1 coral beauty, 2 juvenile ocellaris clowns, 1 firefish, 1 orange striped cardinal and 1 diamond goby. I also have various LPS and soft corals.

Now, I can't go into any store other than the one where I originally bought my setup without everyone telling me how bad my setup is and that I need to upgrade to a new system since my current filtration is totally inadequate and will ultimately cause my tank to fail. The tank is for the corner of our tv/living room, and my wife will not allow any set up that exceeds that space under the stand or is too loud. She already bristles at the eshopps which is decently quiet IMO.

Is it true that I am destined for tank failure with my type of setup? Is all lost? Should I continue to listen to these people who tell me my system sucks and is just a nitrate factory? Even if true, are there no workarounds? I've put in close to 3K already and would be ****ed if I was sold the wrong thing but still want to know anyway...your thought are much appreciated! thanks in advance!

While I would never recommend a canister filter to someone with a saltwater tank (for the concerns they mentioned), I would say as long as the tank looks good and your water tests right you should be fine and ignore the naysayers.

[LauraGreenImp]

Originally Posted by LouB

Why do you like sump and slimmer better?

Water is noticeably cleaner, just to the naked eye. Corals doing better.


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[jmc1024]

LouB,
I vodka dose and it works well. I found this from reef keeping helpful. http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php