valentini puffer white spots

[Uncle99]

Originally Posted by Tyler438

What if the clowns have not shown any signs of ich? I haven't seen any spots on them, should I still be treating or keep them in QT and wait for them to show signs?

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While they may be fine, we just don't know for sure, Ick could be in the mouth or gills and not show on the skin surface. If you leave them in the Ick cycle will continue to revolve and your DT would never clear until those fish either died or were pulled, then...the 72 days starts all over again.

Clowns are quite hardy, and respond well to cupramine.
Treat all fish until you see no spots, go another 7-14 days, and ensure they are eating well...then remove the copper....they will be in Qt for 72 as well as the fish usually get better in the 14-30 days range with Copper.

[Uncle99]

Sorry, may have read your post incorrectly, wasn't sure where you would put the clowns if your treating with copper in the QT.

If you have another QT available to "watch" but not treat your clowns, it's your choice whether to treat or not until they show signs.

I assume once one fish has Ick, the others may as well but some strong fish can remain imune to the parasite....

[Tyler438]

Originally Posted by Bill_Moorman

I would pull them out of the main tank for the fallow period.

While in QT, if you see a spot, start treatment that day. If you don’t see spots, let them chill in their nice hotel room away from home!


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Thanks, I have moved them to a 10gal QT tanks with a heater at 78F, HOB biowheel filter which is rated for a 60gal tank so it should be moving water pretty well, and 2 small pieces of live rock. I'll keep an eye on them and go from there. I also got them some marine flake food with garlic, which they seem to be enjoying.

[Uncle99]

It will be helpful to the members if you can share your success with us.
Keep us posted, we wish you luck and hope all,your fish are better soon

[Tyler438]

So far so good, almost 2 weeks in QT tank and clowns are doing great. No signs of ich. Any issues with not having a light on the QT tank with 2 small pieces of live rock and the 2 clowns?

[tjm9331]

Glad to hear they are doing well, are you treating them prophylactically with anything?

Having no light is perfectly fine on a QT.

[Tyler438]

Originally Posted by tjm9331

Glad to hear they are doing well, are you treating them prophylactically with anything?

Having no light is perfectly fine on a QT.

No, I have not started copper treatment. I bought some and I'm prepared to do so if they start showing signs of ich. I should be in the clear after 4 weeks if they don't show any symptoms correct? Obviously, I'll leave them in QT for the required 72 days needed for the DT.

[Bill_Moorman]

Originally Posted by Tyler438

Thanks, I have moved them to a 10gal QT tanks with a heater at 78F, HOB biowheel filter which is rated for a 60gal tank so it should be moving water pretty well, and 2 small pieces of live rock. I'll keep an eye on them and go from there. I also got them some marine flake food with garlic, which they seem to be enjoying.

Right on! Glad to hear they are doing okay. The water movement isn’t vital for just the fish, but you want to make sure you have surface agitation to help with O2 exchange. I’ve read a TON about crypto (the true name of marine ich) and from what I have learned garlic won’t prevent the parasites from attaching, rather, it entices the fish to eat. You want to feed them well to keep their immune system strong.

I thought I had a crypto outbreak because my clown had a white spot on her tail, but that was about a week ago (you can check my post history). I started soaking their breakfast (I rotate between flake, pellet, and frozen Mysis) in selcon and made sure they ate a ton (but not over feeding to cause a nitrate rise) and they are happy and fat haha.

I’d keep them in the QT for at least 30 days just to make sure they don’t become infected. If they do, check out the stickies about treating crypto and you’ll be in good shape.

Keep us updated!


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[Rover88]

Originally Posted by Tyler438

No, I have not started copper treatment. I bought some and I'm prepared to do so if they start showing signs of ich. I should be in the clear after 4 weeks if they don't show any symptoms correct? Obviously, I'll leave them in QT for the required 72 days needed for the DT.

No, you will not be clear if they don't start showing signs.

Ich does not always show. This is for a few reasons, but the most common being its in the gills where you can't see it. I know that my clown fish never showed signs of ich even after three other fish were lost and every other fish was showing signs, they seemed fine. But they got treated too.

You should treat them in copper for the minimum 2 week period, and preferably 4 week period. This isn't prophylactic treatment, you aren't guessing that they might be sick. If they were in a tank with another fish that had ich, it is safe to assume they have ich. Do you really want to risk another 72 day fallow period by leaving the clowns with a chance of having ich, adding a new fish not as 'strong' as they are, and watching that fish succumb to the ich the clowns can handle?


To answer your questions:
They do not need a light. Many people say its better to keep it dim as its less stressful.
The small pieces of live rock are fine, just don't move them back to the main display. While cupramine is supposedly very good at staying in solution and not tainting the rock with copper, you'll want to make those rocks your 'quarantine rocks'.

[Tyler438]

Originally Posted by Rover88

No, you will not be clear if they don't start showing signs.

Ich does not always show. This is for a few reasons, but the most common being its in the gills where you can't see it. I know that my clown fish never showed signs of ich even after three other fish were lost and every other fish was showing signs, they seemed fine. But they got treated too.

You should treat them in copper for the minimum 2 week period, and preferably 4 week period. This isn't prophylactic treatment, you aren't guessing that they might be sick. If they were in a tank with another fish that had ich, it is safe to assume they have ich. Do you really want to risk another 72 day fallow period by leaving the clowns with a chance of having ich, adding a new fish not as 'strong' as they are, and watching that fish succumb to the ich the clowns can handle?


To answer your questions:
They do not need a light. Many people say its better to keep it dim as its less stressful.
The small pieces of live rock are fine, just don't move them back to the main display. While cupramine is supposedly very good at staying in solution and not tainting the rock with copper, you'll want to make those rocks your 'quarantine rocks'.

Yea that was my plan is to keep the rock in QT tank. OK, I'll start treating the clowns with Copper this weekend. Do I need to take out the carbon from the filters?

[Rover88]

Originally Posted by Tyler438

Yea that was my plan is to keep the rock in QT tank. OK, I'll start treating the clowns with Copper this weekend. Do I need to take out the carbon from the filters?

Yup.

Just follow the instructions on the bottle. Although I've been told to go 'slower' then their instructions. (If they say add 40 drops on day 1, add instead 20 drops then add 20 more the next day kind of thing). This helps build it up slower and gives the fish a more gradual time to adjust.

That being said, clownfish are hardy to copper. Mine barely reacted all to the copper in the tank, while some of the other fish got rather lethargic for a few days.

[shaginwagon13]

Originally Posted by CSmooth2009

Get a cleaner shrimp it’ll handle that ich real quick. It’s a scarlet skunk cleaner shrimp. It’ll probably save ur fish life


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That doesn't solve anything lol

I had Ich and used hypo in my main system when i first added fish to my system about a year ago. I was lucky and didn't have any inverts at the time so this was a viable option for me. I honestly have never had a puffer and not sure exactly what they can tolerate so that would be something you need to look into but hypo worked amazingly for me, and very honestly wasn't as difficult to do as people made it out.

[Tyler438]

Originally Posted by shaginwagon13

That doesn't solve anything lol

I had Ich and used hypo in my main system when i first added fish to my system about a year ago. I was lucky and didn't have any inverts at the time so this was a viable option for me. I honestly have never had a puffer and not sure exactly what they can tolerate so that would be something you need to look into but hypo worked amazingly for me, and very honestly wasn't as difficult to do as people made it out.

Well, I lost the puffer, the coral beauty, and my blenny. The only thing left is my 2 clowns that are in QT. DT has 2 anemones, lots of turbo snails, 3 hermits, and a cleaner shrimp.

[Bill_Moorman]

Sorry to hear that. People who aren’t into reefing don’t understand how attached we are to our fish. “It’s just a fish dude, but another...”

Best of luck with the treatment of the others!


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[shaginwagon13]

Originally Posted by Tyler438

Well, I lost the puffer, the coral beauty, and my blenny. The only thing left is my 2 clowns that are in QT. DT has 2 anemones, lots of turbo snails, 3 hermits, and a cleaner shrimp.

Sorry to hear that.

Keep the clownfish in QT and treat with either hypo, copper or TTM for 90 days.

Your display tank is fallow of fish and if left like this for 90 days, the Ich will die as there are no hosts.

You can increase the temperature slightly in the display tank to 83 degrees. Slightly warmer water speeds up the life cycles of Ich. Colder waters around 78-77 degrees lengthens their life cycle which means there is more risk after 90 days that all the Ich will not yet be dead.

[Tyler438]

Originally Posted by shaginwagon13

Sorry to hear that.

Keep the clownfish in QT and treat with either hypo, copper or TTM for 90 days.

Your display tank is fallow of fish and if left like this for 90 days, the Ich will die as there are no hosts.

You can increase the temperature slightly in the display tank to 83 degrees. Slightly warmer water speeds up the life cycles of Ich. Colder waters around 78-77 degrees lengthen their life cycle which means there is more risk after 90 days that all the Ich will not yet be dead.

DIsplay tank is holding at 80F, I started the copper treatment yesterday at 6 pm, Did a partial water change and tested the water before treatment. pH 8.3, Ammonia 0, nitrites 0, Nitrates 0. Feed them before the treatment and again around 10 pm when I checked on them before bed. As of this morning, they still look happy. Gave them some food and they ate just fine. I will give them a few misys shrimp tonight for dinner. One thing I noticed and I may just be crazy but their eyes look dilated, is this common?

[shaginwagon13]

Originally Posted by Tyler438

DIsplay tank is holding at 80F, I started the copper treatment yesterday at 6 pm, Did a partial water change and tested the water before treatment. pH 8.3, Ammonia 0, nitrites 0, Nitrates 0. Feed them before the treatment and again around 10 pm when I checked on them before bed. As of this morning, they still look happy. Gave them some food and they ate just fine. I will give them a few misys shrimp tonight for dinner. One thing I noticed and I may just be crazy but their eyes look dilated, is this common?

I’ve honestly never used cooper treatment so I’m not entirely sure in regards to their eyes.

Did you add copper to your main display tank?

[Tyler438]

Originally Posted by shaginwagon13

I’ve honestly never used cooper treatment so I’m not entirely sure in regards to their eyes.

Did you add copper to your main display tank?

No copper in display tank, just doing the 72 day fallow period. Treating clowns with copper in the qt tank.

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[Uncle99]

Eyes can look "glassy" may look swollen or somewhat closed, yup, normal, as the fish heals, this will go right back to normal.

While you have lost some fish, I (and likely the clowns) commend you for your efforts.

if they eat well, this is second most important to copper. High protein meaty foods like your doing is perfect.

Nice work.

[Tyler438]

Originally Posted by Uncle99

Eyes can look "glassy" may look swollen or somewhat closed, yup, normal, as the fish heals, this will go right back to normal.

While you have lost some fish, I (and likely the clowns) commend you for your efforts.

if they eat well, this is second most important to copper. High protein meaty foods like your doing is perfect.

Nice work.

Did the 2nd dose Saturday, so far everything looks good. They are eating well and don't seem to be missing a beat. Copper treatment will be done on the 14th and they should be good to go. August 28th they should be good to go back in the tank at 72 days, or should I wait the 90 days as some have suggested?

[Bill_Moorman]

The new timeframe is 76 days.


https://www.*********.com/threads/ic...gement.188775/

Edit: Had to change to the web url.

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[Uncle99]

The fallow time has to do with the percentage success rate to rid the DT of Ick.
So, in 60 days, the suggestion is that the success is about 85-90%.
In 72-78 days the success rate jumps to 99% success.
Anywhere in this period, in my opinion, and mostly all hobbists agree is the "safe period". Is 90 better? Is 100 better?. Where will this end? One thing for sure, the longer the better....but how much better....studies show not much.

You may want to (or maybe you already have) search this site and see what the majority says....I trust you will find 72-78 is the time most suggest.

If the fish is strong at 72-78.....back he/they go....

Keep up the good work, your on your way home....

And keep in mind....strong, well fed fish, high protein varied diets, living in a minimal stress environment is the best defense against Ick.

It attacks the weak.

[Tyler438]

Originally Posted by Uncle99

The fallow time has to do with the percentage success rate to rid the DT of Ick.
So, in 60 days, the suggestion is that the success is about 85-90%.
In 72-78 days the success rate jumps to 99% success.
Anywhere in this period, in my opinion, and mostly all hobbists agree is the "safe period". Is 90 better? Is 100 better?. Where will this end? One thing for sure, the longer the better....but how much better....studies show not much.

You may want to (or maybe you already have) search this site and see what the majority says....I trust you will find 72-78 is the time most suggest.

If the fish is strong at 72-78.....back he/they go....

Keep up the good work, your on your way home....

And keep in mind....strong, well-fed fish, high protein varied diets, living in a minimal stress environment is the best defense against Ick.

It attacks the weak.

Ok thanks, I'll go with 90 days to be safe. The fish seem healthy and happy. They never once showed signs of ich. I finish the treatment and the 90-day fallow time before they go back in. Good news is my DT is getting cleaned up by the snails and shrimp without a load on it. May need to drop in a silverside or something to keep the CUC happy.