Not sure this is a showcase (No Filter No Sump)

lou.micevski · 08/19/2017, 08:18 PM

i thought i will share and post a few pics of my tank that has now been running 8 months i know it is early days but this tank has no sump no skimmer no dosing thus far not sure what will be in the future but with some of your help this is where i'm at
please feel free to comment or make some suggestions as i'm still fairly new to the hobby, May i add that no skimmer and no sump isn't by choice.
Tank Size : 1350 Ltr (350 GL)
3000wx900hx500d
running 2 x fluval X5 cannister filters
2 xf250 gyre pumps standard 300 watt heater
3 x 4ft Chinese LED's 165 watt each

DancingShark · 08/19/2017, 10:19 PM

What do you mean no skimmer or sump isn't by choice?
I am a minimalist when it come to live rock compared to others. But i would add more rocks to that.
What are your live stock like. I see you have corals but can't tell anything else. A dottyback? And a foxface?

lou.micevski · 08/20/2017, 01:55 AM

the fact that the system isn't running with a skimmer or a sump isn't buy choice i have no room for a sump or a skimmer the tank was designed for freshwater sand a poor design on my behalf.
2x tomatoe clowns
2 x fire fish
1 x fairy wrasse

PROlife · 08/20/2017, 02:45 AM

Going to ramble a bit can it be done yes ( regular water changes ) should it be done no. If you don't keep any fish then the need for a skimmer is less important but you do, without a sump you have no way apart from water changes to control your phos and nitrate levels (canister filters become nitrate factories) Those two things as they rise will make the inhabitants very uncomfortable and if they get to high will kill them. So my advice to you if you not planning an upgrade anytime soon is to not add any more fish, maybe even lighten the load, and make sure you keep on top of regular water changes

lou.micevski · 08/20/2017, 02:58 AM

thank you for taking the time to respond. I hear you @PROfile are you saying the five little fish in a 350 Gallon tank are too much ??

rtparty · 08/20/2017, 05:37 AM

High nitrates doesn't kill fish. It's ammonia that kills fish.

You don't need a sump to remove N and P either. The canister filters can and will do this. You just need to maintain them and not get lazy. Clean them often and keep good chemical filtration going. If possible, add a bunch of Seachem Matrix to one of the filters. This will give you a lot more surface area for beneficial bacteria to grow.

on the spot · 08/20/2017, 06:37 AM

It looks like you have a substantial sand bed - and a light fish load. I disagree that you need more of anything at this point.

Bravo on the clowns.

+ on the maintain the canisters though.

For 8 months in your tank looks quite nice. Good work.

lou.micevski · 08/20/2017, 06:51 AM

Thanks guys, yes i was of a similar opinion at this stage i i will keep just maintaining what i have a hopefully the corals can really establish themselves, is it true that the tank can still go through different cycles until it matures and when can you safely say that the tank has properly matured ???

lou.micevski · 08/20/2017, 06:54 AM

here some more pics

PROlife · 08/20/2017, 07:26 AM

rtparty, although less toxic than ammonia/ammonium and nitrite, nitrate as a nitrogen compound also causes stress at all levels making a fishes organs work harder to adjust to its new environment. The increasing stress results in the loss of ability to fight diseases, the ability to heal itself. So we might be talking about it indirectly but ultimately high nitrates will lead to the death of fish.

Lou.micevski, sorry missed the bit about how many gals your tank has so no your stock level should be fine, but just be mindful about adding more as it's them that put the pressure onto the system. I still standby what I said about the canister filters they become nitrate factories there designed for freshwater systems, maybe I should have gone into more detail and added that they will be fine as long as you make sure to clean the at least once a month. So I will go into it a little now, your filters will be catching all the crap in your tank and holding it which is great but what you don't really want is for it to all sit in your canisters slowly breaking down, you will want to remove it as often as you can (one a month) now when I say clean I don't mean rinse everything under a tap as you will kill all the good bacteria, what I would advise is to get a large tub then take water from the main tank (water change) and use that to clean all the pads and bits and bobs from inside the filters before putting it all back together again, hope that makes sense.

The advice I give to fish only systems is to not let their nitrate go above 10pp.

PROlife · 08/20/2017, 07:27 AM

just noticed your pics, bit blue so hard to tell but is the purple slim on the bottom of your tank, if so its cyano bacteria, read up on it if it is and it well help you understand whats going on

on the spot · 08/20/2017, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PROlife

...nitrate as a nitrogen compound also causes stress at all levels making a fishes organs work harder to adjust to its new environment...

ultimately high nitrates will lead to the death of fish.

The advice I give to fish only systems is to not let their nitrate go above 10pp.

Let's pump the brakes here. 10ppm is expensive advice.

The bacterial population in those canisters is insignificant against that sandbed. No need for wanky rinsing rituals. Just use the sink.

With valves and quick connects I'd bet you could get that down to a 10 minute or less rinse. I'd do that more often than monthly.

PROlife · 08/20/2017, 11:33 AM

Must be just me but so many people coming across like complete.....

Anyway, do you not think that by wiping out that insignificant population you might run the risk of starting a cycle off again? maybe it wouldn't but why rock the boat when washing in tank water will save any problems?

lou.micevski · 08/20/2017, 04:49 PM

Hey guys thanks for the input it really interesting to hear the diversity of opinion and i suppose thats the hobby no two setups are the same.
i do a fortnightly 10-15% water change as of 18/08 my test results showed

red sea Algae control and red sea Reef pro)
Amonia:0
Nitrite:0
Nitrate:.50 (Thats POINT 50)
Phos:.08 (point 08)
Alk: 9.7
MAg: 1600
Cal: 430

lou.micevski · 08/20/2017, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PROlife

just noticed your pics, bit blue so hard to tell but is the purple slim on the bottom of your tank, if so its cyano bacteria, read up on it if it is and it well help you understand whats going on

yes i have a little bit of cyano it looks worse in the pics that what it actually is
i assume its because my phosphates were a little higher @ .16 down to .08 now and working on bringing them down even further.

lou.micevski · 08/20/2017, 05:56 PM

Sorry for Pic quality taken using PHONE !

OldReefGuy · 08/23/2017, 03:42 PM

"I still standby what I said about the canister filters they become nitrate factories there designed for freshwater systems, "

Not really true.

Lou. you are ok with this system. Keep an eye on Nitrates, do 10% w/c at least once a month and rinse your filter sponges at least once a month with any water you are tossing out.
You should be OK even at 50ppm, however, the key for you now is your w/c's.

08/20/2017, 05:37 AM	#6
rtparty Raise The Reef! Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Utah Posts: 7,404	High nitrates doesn't kill fish. It's ammonia that kills fish. You don't need a sump to remove N and P either. The canister filters can and will do this. You just need to maintain them and not get lazy. Clean them often and keep good chemical filtration going. If possible, add a bunch of Seachem Matrix to one of the filters. This will give you a lot more surface area for beneficial bacteria to grow. __________________ Ryan Click on my user name and check out my homepage! Current Tank Info: 50g Cadlights/Giesemann Spectra (250w Radium, 2 ATI Blue Plus, 2 ATI Actinic)/2 x Vortech MP10wQD/Skimz SN123/Eheim Compact 3000+

08/20/2017, 04:49 PM	#14
lou.micevski Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 36	Hey guys thanks for the input it really interesting to hear the diversity of opinion and i suppose thats the hobby no two setups are the same. i do a fortnightly 10-15% water change as of 18/08 my test results showedred sea Algae control and red sea Reef pro) Amonia:0 Nitrite:0 Nitrate:.50 (Thats POINT 50) Phos:.08 (point 08) Alk: 9.7 MAg: 1600 Cal: 430

08/19/2017, 10:19 PM	#2
DancingShark Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 126	What do you mean no skimmer or sump isn't by choice? I am a minimalist when it come to live rock compared to others. But i would add more rocks to that. What are your live stock like. I see you have corals but can't tell anything else. A dottyback? And a foxface?

08/20/2017, 01:55 AM	#3
lou.micevski Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 36	the fact that the system isn't running with a skimmer or a sump isn't buy choice i have no room for a sump or a skimmer the tank was designed for freshwater sand a poor design on my behalf. 2x tomatoe clowns 2 x fire fish 1 x fairy wrasse

08/20/2017, 02:45 AM	#4
PROlife Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 19	Going to ramble a bit can it be done yes ( regular water changes ) should it be done no. If you don't keep any fish then the need for a skimmer is less important but you do, without a sump you have no way apart from water changes to control your phos and nitrate levels (canister filters become nitrate factories) Those two things as they rise will make the inhabitants very uncomfortable and if they get to high will kill them. So my advice to you if you not planning an upgrade anytime soon is to not add any more fish, maybe even lighten the load, and make sure you keep on top of regular water changes

08/20/2017, 02:58 AM	#5
lou.micevski Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 36	thank you for taking the time to respond. I hear you @PROfile are you saying the five little fish in a 350 Gallon tank are too much ??

08/20/2017, 06:37 AM	#7
on the spot Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: West Michigan Posts: 1,010	It looks like you have a substantial sand bed - and a light fish load. I disagree that you need more of anything at this point. Bravo on the clowns. + on the maintain the canisters though. For 8 months in your tank looks quite nice. Good work.

08/20/2017, 06:51 AM	#8
lou.micevski Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 36	Thanks guys, yes i was of a similar opinion at this stage i i will keep just maintaining what i have a hopefully the corals can really establish themselves, is it true that the tank can still go through different cycles until it matures and when can you safely say that the tank has properly matured ???

08/20/2017, 07:26 AM	#10
PROlife Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 19	rtparty, although less toxic than ammonia/ammonium and nitrite, nitrate as a nitrogen compound also causes stress at all levels making a fishes organs work harder to adjust to its new environment. The increasing stress results in the loss of ability to fight diseases, the ability to heal itself. So we might be talking about it indirectly but ultimately high nitrates will lead to the death of fish. Lou.micevski, sorry missed the bit about how many gals your tank has so no your stock level should be fine, but just be mindful about adding more as it's them that put the pressure onto the system. I still standby what I said about the canister filters they become nitrate factories there designed for freshwater systems, maybe I should have gone into more detail and added that they will be fine as long as you make sure to clean the at least once a month. So I will go into it a little now, your filters will be catching all the crap in your tank and holding it which is great but what you don't really want is for it to all sit in your canisters slowly breaking down, you will want to remove it as often as you can (one a month) now when I say clean I don't mean rinse everything under a tap as you will kill all the good bacteria, what I would advise is to get a large tub then take water from the main tank (water change) and use that to clean all the pads and bits and bobs from inside the filters before putting it all back together again, hope that makes sense. The advice I give to fish only systems is to not let their nitrate go above 10pp.

08/20/2017, 07:27 AM	#11
PROlife Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 19	just noticed your pics, bit blue so hard to tell but is the purple slim on the bottom of your tank, if so its cyano bacteria, read up on it if it is and it well help you understand whats going on

08/20/2017, 11:33 AM	#13
PROlife Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 19	Must be just me but so many people coming across like complete..... Anyway, do you not think that by wiping out that insignificant population you might run the risk of starting a cycle off again? maybe it wouldn't but why rock the boat when washing in tank water will save any problems?

08/20/2017, 05:56 PM	#16
lou.micevski Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 36	Sorry for Pic quality taken using PHONE !

08/23/2017, 03:42 PM	#17
OldReefGuy Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Granada Hills Posts: 542	"I still standby what I said about the canister filters they become nitrate factories there designed for freshwater systems, " Not really true. Lou. you are ok with this system. Keep an eye on Nitrates, do 10% w/c at least once a month and rinse your filter sponges at least once a month with any water you are tossing out. You should be OK even at 50ppm, however, the key for you now is your w/c's.