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Unread 09/25/2014, 08:54 PM   #201
Michael Hoaster
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Yep, that's tightly bunched chaeto. It's going in the refugium, so I haven't unbunched it yet.

I've mounted the metal halide over the left end of the tank, at about a 30 degree angle, towards the right. You can see in the full tank shot above, the beams angling out. I'm trying to decide if I even need another light over the fake root. I love the idea of 'only' one 400 watt light. Having the right end of the tank dimmer would certainly open up space for non-photosynthetic friends. All the red macros like medium to dim lighting, so it may just work. I'll know a lot more once the tank fills. And decloudifies…

Wow, I just have to say, after months of planning, I am ecstatic with how this thing is looking so far! Mixing what I've learned with fresh water planted tanks and reef keeping is making for a very rewarding hobby.


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Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Unread 09/26/2014, 09:28 AM   #202
Michael Hoaster
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Who says you can't buy time! 30 gallons. This should get to within 1 day to full.




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Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Unread 09/26/2014, 10:44 AM   #203
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You know. Unlike a normal reef tank, you want some nutrients in your water to feed the algae, right?

Is RODI all that necessary? Just asking.


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Unread 09/26/2014, 11:39 AM   #204
Michael Hoaster
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Now you tell me! That's a very good point, Karim.

But, from what I've read, seagrasses like nutrient-poor water too, like corals. They need less nutrients than microalgae, so they can outcompete them. So, I'm trying to keep the the initial filling as nutrient poor as is practical. I'm going to try to fertilize them via the sand bed, with pills of glutamic acid, pushed down deep. GA is a preferred form of ammonia for them.

Once all the seagrasses get established and growing well, then I'll have more leeway with water purity. They'll be able to process nutrients very efficiently. Right now, I'm chasing the holy grail of new-tank scenarios-a microalgae-free first month.

I'm using a technique/strategy from fresh water planted tanks, also. That is to plant heavily when first setting up a tank, so the plants are already there sucking up nutrients before micro algae can at them.


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
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Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Unread 09/26/2014, 01:17 PM   #205
JLynn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster View Post
Now you tell me! That's a very good point, Karim.

But, from what I've read, seagrasses like nutrient-poor water too, like corals. They need less nutrients than microalgae, so they can outcompete them.
That is one reason why it is important to have clean, fresh, saltwater, but there are a few more, too. For one thing, the dirtier the water in the tank gets (nutrient-wise), the poorer the light transmission. Also, the dirtier the water gets (plankton-wise), the less light reaches the bottom of the tank. Those sound like the exact same thing, but while the principle is similar, they aren't. The first one is similar to the effect of smog and the particles in the atmosphere; they absorb and reflect and scatter light from the sun so that we receive less of it. The second one is like how in the rainforest, the canopy formed by the tallest trees blocks out the vast majority of the sunlight, so that the shorter trees struggle to survive.

Furthermore, nutrient-rich water encourages the growth of epiphytes on seagrass blades, which blocks light from reaching their leaves. Lastly, seagrasses do get nutrients from the water, but from what I understand, it is something of a last resort for them to depend on that; the vast majority of their nutrients are taken in through the roots, and they have a limited capacity to take in nutrients from the water column.



Last edited by JLynn; 09/26/2014 at 01:23 PM.
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Unread 09/26/2014, 02:01 PM   #206
Michael Hoaster
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It's kind of a tricky balancing act, in this very early phase of the tank's life. I don't want to encourage microalgae, but I do want to encourage the grasses and macros. Plus, conditions are very unstable, with new bacteria getting established, the nitrogen cycle, plant uptake and die off, etc.

I have not pushed my 'plant tabs' into the bed yet. I'm not sure they'd do much good at this point, when none of the grasses have any roots more than an inch deep. I'll give them a little more time before I do. I will do it soon, I imagine. Even pushing them 5-6 inches deep, I'd expect some ammonia to get to them eventually. But right now I want them to have to work a bit to get strong and established, in nutrient poor conditions.

I did seed the tank with a little ammonia, to start the cycle, and vinegar, as a carbon source. Just a little 'kick-start', since I'm not adding fish for a while.


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
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Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Unread 09/26/2014, 08:41 PM   #207
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Oops, let me clarify; I haven't put any plant tabs in the tank. From my post above, it sounds like I could have put them in there, but not pushed into the substrate.

When I do put them in, it'll be straight into the depths of the DSB, so I don't let it into the water column.


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Unread 09/26/2014, 09:11 PM   #208
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Interesting. I was looking at culturing my phytoplankton and the recommendation was to use tap water as a starter to establish a nutrient base. But in my phyto acrylic cylinder, the lights are in a semicircle around the tank so the light penetrates directly to the planktonic plants and the air bubbles create a circulation flow so they all get to cycle to the light surface regularly. The nutrients also need to be immediately available in the water column.

I also have a macro scrubber that is literally at the water surface with a surge of new water flushing through it as it basks directly under the lights.

But with rooted plants, the access to light and nutrients is different. So the delivery of each takes a different form with different variables.


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Unread 09/26/2014, 10:12 PM   #209
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Well, finally…

Tank's (filled) up and running! Got the Tunze Turbelle powerhead within the fake mangrove root running. The wall hasn't floated away, and the fake root hasn't fallen apart. When I turned on the pump, I lost half my plantings from yesterday. But I got everyone replanted and they look so alive in the (mild) current.


This pic illustrates the single point light source thing I got going. I doesn't do it justice of course, but you can see how the light tapers off to the right.


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Unread 09/26/2014, 10:15 PM   #210
Michael Hoaster
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Finally one you can see the seagrass!




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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Unread 09/26/2014, 10:18 PM   #211
Michael Hoaster
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A little closer. It's funny, right now my seagrasses are dwarfed by everything else, but soon the tide will turn, hopefully.



I'm so happy with how the DSB planter turned out! I was able to conserve space and get a cool hardscape that looks pretty natural.


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018

Last edited by Michael Hoaster; 09/26/2014 at 10:48 PM.
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Unread 09/26/2014, 10:43 PM   #212
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Filled at last! JOY! Just a few more notes…

I've only turned on the powerhead. The main pump, a Reeflow Dart Gold is not online yet, as it would be too much current, right now, in this early stage of planting.

I tucked some of the Caulerpa 'Peltata' in the gaps in the fake wall. I hope to get the wall colonized with all sorts of life. That will be so cool!

One thing that jumps out at me, is that this tank 'feels like' a natural place. No visible pumps, etc! I'm lovin' it!


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018

Last edited by Michael Hoaster; 09/26/2014 at 11:35 PM.
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Unread 09/26/2014, 11:10 PM   #213
Michael Hoaster
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Karim, it is interesting, the various elements we are concerned with. You cultivating phytoplankton, me trying to grow seagrass, and keep microalgae at bay.

Sounds like you have a spanking macro scrubber! Is it in a display, or a refugium?


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Unread 09/26/2014, 11:43 PM   #214
karimwassef
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Refugium. It's the rainforest canopy to my modular tiered DSB. I experiment...

Pods like it, so do my glass shrimp. But snail and crabs keep finding their way there even with a plastic screen.

I'll take a picture


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Unread 09/26/2014, 11:50 PM   #215
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This is night mode so it's about 3" deeper than usual. During the day, my surge pulls all the water from the sump and the Chaeto is near exposed.

 photo A4D67D43-B2B5-4264-B26E-82CAD9727847_zps2okax2le.jpg

 photo B9D7954D-2EF0-4D26-87C0-704A893E214A_zpsbscsb3pk.jpg

 photo 571EF0EB-D913-497E-8762-A3B6D912AEFB_zpsnd4ab0p1.jpg


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Unread 09/27/2014, 12:11 AM   #216
Michael Hoaster
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Nice! Funny how beautiful refugiums can be…

I plan to put chaeto and ulva in my refugium. I was going to put it on top of my display tank, but it blocks some of the light, so I'm still playing around with it. I hope to get a sustainable population of pods going and feeding the tank.


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Unread 09/27/2014, 12:44 AM   #217
karimwassef
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It is fast growing. I put it in 10 days ago:
 photo 81EE9164-248C-454B-BBCD-97954044135D_zpsfisrpetk.jpg


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Unread 09/27/2014, 12:45 AM   #218
karimwassef
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It's growing that fast with only a $20 30W LED fixture DIY. I'm adding an 80W CFL to boost it even more.


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Unread 09/27/2014, 12:47 AM   #219
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It's unfortunately competing with 1200W of halides and 400W LED in the DT growing my hair algae jungles.

 photo 6B45E405-2D99-4567-BA54-0EB3459E2FBB_zpstqn9z1bq.jpg


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Unread 09/27/2014, 12:50 AM   #220
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I have the back of the tank in my garage and I live on a lake in TX. Every day when I open the garage door, my halides and blue LEDs beckon every insect in. The swarm dies and the mosquito netting only keeps the big ones out. The rest are "nutrient"... I have a 12 foot skimmer that generates a quart of thick gunk a week and a GFO.. And still my filamentous jungle grows.. LOL


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Unread 09/27/2014, 08:13 AM   #221
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Everything looks fantastic! I see what you did with the lighting, too, and it is a great effect. I love seeing tanks with single source lighting. Personally, I think it makes the whole aquascape look much more dynamic, even if it isn't normally faithful to real life. Of course, in your case the lighting is pretty realistic.

I agree that the hardscape looks pretty natural. Good job on that! It was definitely worth all the hard work. Are you planning on getting any encrusting macro algae to put on the live rock?

Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
I have the back of the tank in my garage and I live on a lake in TX. Every day when I open the garage door, my halides and blue LEDs beckon every insect in. The swarm dies and the mosquito netting only keeps the big ones out. The rest are "nutrient"... I have a 12 foot skimmer that generates a quart of thick gunk a week and a GFO.. And still my filamentous jungle grows.. LOL
Lol, I totally know what you mean. Bugs are a nightmare in Texas. I am surprised that they notice the lights during the daytime, though. What lake do you live on?


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Unread 09/27/2014, 11:05 AM   #222
karimwassef
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My refugium pic was deleted by accident. Here it is again

 photo A4D67D43-B2B5-4264-B26E-82CAD9727847_zpsgjpwq0w7.jpg

I'm on Lake Ray Hubbard in Dallas.

I agree on the natural look and lighting. I can't wait for more pics


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Unread 09/27/2014, 09:32 PM   #223
Michael Hoaster
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Thanks, JLynn. I've got some of the caulerpa peltata around the planter. I'll probably get a little caribbean live rock for additional hardscape and biodiversity.

I've been moving the red macros around, trying to make everyone happy. Have I mentioned they're stunning? All the plants are moving in the currents and it looks so right!

Tomorrow I'll bring the canister filter with CO2 injection online. There's still so much to do! So much fun, now that the tank's up!


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Unread 09/27/2014, 09:40 PM   #224
Michael Hoaster
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Karim, your refugium looks to have a large capacity. Great pics too! Have you tried any hair algae grazers, like tangs or urchins in your DT?


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Unread 09/27/2014, 10:32 PM   #225
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I have a sailfin tang and two stripe rabbit.
I also had a lawnmower blenny until Friday
The difficulty is the scale of the problem. It's a 380gallon DT with a total 660g.

The blenny and tang ate until their bellies were swollen. The blenny had an obstruction and died.

I have 100 hermits, 100 snails, 10 massive turbos, 9 emerald crabs and a 10" arrow crab. I had a sea hare and lettuce nudi but I'm not sure where they got to.

To put it in perspective, the snail shells have algae 2x as big as they are.

This is kin to having an outside tank with all the natural dirt that can fall in. My 12' skimmer generates 2 quarts of gunk a week and still it grows.

I did a 100gallon water change today and manually weeded for hours. Let's see.


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