Sand Bed Vacuum Test - Phosphate Liberation? - Page 5

Nano sapiens · 02/04/2015, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by islandman41

It works and so far all my fish and corals are doing great. I will probably slap the next person that I hear telling someone to never clean their sand bed. Wish I could get all my money back that I've spent on GFO and then paid for the hours spent reading trying to find a cure. $$$ Siphon your sand people, it make a big diferance.

Keeping a clean sandbed is one of the most often overlooked and often under appreciated processes for long-term success, IMO.

In my naturally filtered tank, I can control the nitrate and phosphate levels simply by increasing or decreasing the frequency of water changes/vacuuming to remove detritus (all other parameters staying constant).

BOMPH · 02/11/2015, 09:56 PM

Have to agree with vacuuming the substrate. No NO3 or PO4 to worry about, but lots of Cyano on sand bed, would clean it off, and within the hour I'd see it spotting back up. Last 2 weekends I siphoned the sand, and it's gone. Some nice black water came out in some areas, and I didn't lose too much sand.

Reefin' Dude · 02/18/2015, 03:51 PM

removing the waste organic material removes the chance for inorganic N and P to be produced.

whether or not this is a good thing all depends on the must have organisms in the system. some require amounts of available inorganic N and P, while others fine it toxic. the reverse is also true.

the amount of siphoning of detritus should match the desired levels of the environment wishing to be emulated.

G~

brad65ford · 08/31/2015, 06:46 PM

Bring up a bump to a good thread with some questions on my current system, hopefully you guys can help or give suggestions.

My 40g Fusion has 3-4" sand bed (black Hawaiian sand) its been running for 6-8 months and I haven't touched the sand (no vacuuming). I've watched the n03 increase from 30 to 50 ppm in the last two month regardless how many water changes and crappy Ghost skimmer (doesn't do squat) I've done. So thinking the only solution would be carbon dosing and we are 3 weeks in on Vodka dosing which we are up to 1ml a day now but haven't seen any decrease in no3 yet. Read this thread yesterday and it just makes so much sense it would be silly not to start this practice if it helps. End up starting yesterday doing a 30% water change but with vacuuming out the sand bed best i could with out getting any blast of nasty water in the rest of the water column. I'm assuming its to early to measure but the no3 was the same today 50ppm :-( Hopefully it comes down. Also i'm thinking this siphoning practices would be ideal for shallower sand beds then what i have mine seems to be a mix between normal and deep which would be hurting me. Any thoughts are more then welcome guys. Oh and whats amazing is though the corals aren't growing like weeds they sure aren't dieing except for trumpets which i've always had a hard time with.

brad65ford · 08/31/2015, 06:53 PM

Bring up a bump to a good thread with some questions on my current system, hopefully you guys can help or give suggestions.

My 40g Fusion has 3-4" sand bed (black Hawaiian sand) its been running for 6-8 months and I haven't touched the sand (no vacuuming). I've watched the n03 increase from 30 to 50 ppm in the last two month regardless how many water changes and crappy Ghost skimmer (doesn't do squat still don't understand how i'm not pulling skimmate with this high of n03) I've done. So thinking the only solution would be carbon dosing and we are 3 weeks in on Vodka dosing which we are up to 1ml a day now but haven't seen any decrease in no3 yet. Read this thread yesterday and it just makes so much sense it would be silly not to start this practice if it helps. End up starting yesterday doing a 30% water change but with vacuuming out the sand bed best i could with out getting any blast of nasty water in the rest of the water column. I'm assuming its to early to measure but the no3 was the same today 50ppm :-( Hopefully it comes down. Also i'm thinking this siphoning practices would be ideal for shallower sand beds then what i have mine seems to be a mix between normal and deep which would be hurting me. Any thoughts are more then welcome guys. Oh and whats amazing is though the corals aren't growing like weeds they sure aren't dieing except for trumpets which i've always had a hard time with.

Nano sapiens · 08/31/2015, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brad65ford

Also i'm thinking this siphoning practices would be ideal for shallower sand beds then what i have mine seems to be a mix between normal and deep which would be hurting me.

1/2 - 3/4" sand bed is all that's needed for nitrifying and denitrifying bacteria to flourish. Nitrifying and denitrifying bacteria actually exist in close proximity to each other (termed 'coupled') in the aerobic substrate layers with the denitrifying bacteria taking up residence in the sand grain's lower oxygen micro-pore environments. If you need more detailed info, take a look at 'The Reef Aquarium, Vol 3, pgs. 260-261' (Delbeek/Sprung)

Problems with denitification occur when advective flow into a substrate is impeded such as when heavy detrital deposits occur. The bacteria rely on flow to bring nutrients, especially carbon. With a decent amount of substrate that is regularly cleaned, as well as sufficient carbon and flow, nitrate should not rise to high levels even in a well stocked and fed reef tank.

Nitrate reduction from chronic high levels can take time, but just keep at it. Don't forget that most of the detritus will collect under the live rock due to advective processes, so it's a good practice to occasionally remove a base rock and vacuum under it (not always possible, I know).

Hope that helps...

brad65ford · 09/01/2015, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nano sapiens

1/2 - 3/4" sand bed is all that's needed for nitrifying and denitrifying bacteria to flourish. Nitrifying and denitrifying bacteria actually exist in close proximity to each other (termed 'coupled') in the aerobic substrate layers with the denitrifying bacteria taking up residence in the sand grain's lower oxygen micro-pore environments. If you need more detailed info, take a look at 'The Reef Aquarium, Vol 3, pgs. 260-261' (Delbeek/Sprung)

Problems with denitification occur when advective flow into a substrate is impeded such as when heavy detrital deposits occur. The bacteria rely on flow to bring nutrients, especially carbon. With a decent amount of substrate that is regularly cleaned, as well as sufficient carbon and flow, nitrate should not rise to high levels even in a well stocked and fed reef tank.

Nitrate reduction from chronic high levels can take time, but just keep at it. Don't forget that most of the detritus will collect under the live rock due to advective processes, so it's a good practice to occasionally remove a base rock and vacuum under it (not always possible, I know).

Hope that helps...

Thank you for the advice, sounds good on the depth of the sand just not sure how i'm going to get there from 3-4" yet. Woke up this morning to a very very cloudy tank, so far the corals look ok no dead fish either. Not sure the tank liked me doing the siphoning, hopefully its just a simple bacteria bloom, I'm wondering if i should run some carbon for a few days to help?

Nano sapiens · 09/01/2015, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brad65ford

Thank you for the advice, sounds good on the depth of the sand just not sure how i'm going to get there from 3-4" yet. Woke up this morning to a very very cloudy tank, so far the corals look ok no dead fish either. Not sure the tank liked me doing the siphoning, hopefully its just a simple bacteria bloom, I'm wondering if i should run some carbon for a few days to help?

Most of the bacterial action happens in the first 1/2-3/4", but that doesn't mean you can't have a thicker sand bed. For a shallow bed, 1 to 1-1/2" is what I've used with no issues long term.

If vacuuming a substrate for the first time (or if the substrate hasn't been vaccumed for a good, long while) it's adviseable to vacuum only small sections at a time (usually done with a water change), not the whole thing all at once.

brad65ford · 09/01/2015, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nano sapiens

Most of the bacterial action happens in the first 1/2-3/4", but that doesn't mean you can't have a thicker sand bed. For a shallow bed, 1 to 1-1/2" is what I've used with no issues long term.

If vacuuming a substrate for the first time (or if the substrate hasn't been vaccumed for a good, long while) it's adviseable to vacuum only small sections at a time (usually done with a water change), not the whole thing all at once.

I'm on it Nano sapiens, today I removed another corner of the tanks sand. I can't believe how much I put in I believe it was 3 20+ lb bags in a 40g Fusion, at this rate another few more 4g water changes with the 1" dai hose should get me down to 1 1/2" all around. Slow process, hopefully it doesn't crash the system/shock the corals to bad. Tank is sure cloud and I know there isn't any good way around it.

What type of sand do you guys recommend for idea siphoning?

Newstead · 09/04/2015, 04:23 PM

Only had nano reefs for 3 1/2 years, so still a newbie, but I have seen the difference it makes to vacuum a sandbed. Our first salt tank was a Biocube 14 and I never vacuumed the sand, thinking that was correct (we had freshwater tanks for over 20 years). I battled algae for 3 years. When it sprang a leak in March we replaced it with a 29 and I began vacuuming the sand after month 3. The difference in nuisance algae has been amazing and so far, my corals are doing much better. The clown pair started spawning after the move - whether due to better conditions, the larger area or who knows what?

brad65ford · 09/04/2015, 05:03 PM

there needs to be more people that discuss this since the practice of keeping the sand bed (regardless how deep) is said to be left alone and when p04 or n03 is high start carbon dosing, bio-pellets, macro algae, ATS etc etc... If is all it takes to keep nutrients in check it should be discussed more since there are many more people that don't do it then do.

Nano sapiens · 09/05/2015, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brad65ford

there needs to be more people that discuss this since the practice of keeping the sand bed (regardless how deep) is said to be left alone and when p04 or n03 is high start carbon dosing, bio-pellets, macro algae, ATS etc etc... If is all it takes to keep nutrients in check it should be discussed more since there are many more people that don't do it then do.

1. Part of the awareness problem goes back to the height of the DSB era when touching the sand bed was taboo. Unfortunately, this same 'no touch' philosophy was too often carried over to shallow sandbed reef aquaria.

2. Some reefers do not want to perform regular maintenance and would rather throw in a bottle/bag of something or other to fix the issue, at least temporarily.

Due to 1 & 2, a large industry has developed promoting and selling products to counteract the overabundance of nitrate and phosphate that many reefers have erroneously come to believe are inevitable and simply a part of the hobby. While these products can have their uses in certain situations, for the average reef tank regular and proper maintenance is really all that is needed.

CStrickland · 09/06/2015, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brad65ford

What type of sand do you guys recommend for idea siphoning?

I use Carib sea special reef flake aragonite. It's like normal sand, you can see bits of gravel and shell if you get close up, but from a normal distance it just looks sandy. I've got some natural sand from my fav beach too, it's really fine and I lose a 1/2 cup or so each week. That's ok tho, gives me an excuse to go get some more

Once you get regular with vac'ing it's not bad to suck a bit of sand out each time and add a pound or two every couple months. It keeps your phos sink steady to always have fresh binding sites.

You can put a filter sock where the water enters your sump to help with the cloudiness, if you don't want to bother ordering one special for this there was a TOTM a while back where the guy was in Japan and resorted to using actual socks (presumably clean) so I guess any fabric will do in a pinch

I sewed mine out of felt.

As far as people talking about vacuuming, there's also a difference which forum you are on. RC seems more into gfo and worms, trt is more about vacuuming, my local club is pretty old-school dsb/plenum. It's nice to visit diff places and learn other ways, there's not one "right way" to run a tank. For me vacuuming makes a lot of sense and it's working great so far, but for others it's easier to run reactors and stuff. I'm cheap and I get a lot of gratification out of putting a little elbow grease in, so it suits my personality to dive into the science and stir up the sand. For others it's funner to set it and forget it. Few of us will keep our tanks for more than a few years, so the far away specter of old tank syndrome is not much of a deterrent, it's just how you feel like managing nutrients today.
My 2 cents

ReefChasing · 11/11/2015, 08:53 AM

I've had a deep sand bed for years. My tank was looking great for about 2 years. Crystal clear water, coralline and corals growing like crazy. Despite having a lot of flow on the sand bed and tons of life in it my tank crashed with a algae bloom around the 2 year mark and I lost all fish. The tank was left alone with only corals for about a year and a half before moving. The tank has been restocked with fish but it looks like old tank syndrome and coralline algae is unable to grow. I've been using a dual BRS reactor with a cup and a half of GFO and Carbon replaced every 2 weeks for about a month and a half. This past weekend I threw in the towel and started vacuuming the sand bed. My days of leaving the bed alone are over. I'll keep everyone posted on my progress as I continue to vacuum.

Green Chromis · 11/15/2015, 09:43 AM

Hi all. I use to siphon my 3 to 4 inch sand bed during every water change, now I stir up a portion of the sand bed using a turkey baster and a power head, filtering the water thru 2, 200 micron felt socks before it returns to the display tank. You would not believe the amount of gunk that these socks accumulate while doing this. When I siphoned the sand, the waste water would go directly into a floor drain, and I would lose all the life that I siphoned from the sand, while using a turkey baster and power head to disturb the sand and releasing all the crud accumulated in it most of the life remains in the tank, and what does get out is collected in the first sock, and I can return them to the system. My question is do the worms and other life get replenished fast enough if I just vacuum the sand bed and let it go into the floor drain, and does it really matter if I lose the life in the sand bed that happens when vacuuming?

ReefChasing · 11/17/2015, 09:55 AM

I've done three separate 16 gallon water changes on my 130 gallon in the last week and I can still see tons of worms and life in the sand. I was always so worried about vacuuming out life from the bed but now I'll happily exchange fresh crystal clear salt water for crap water and a few lost worms. I don't think you'll have any problems losing too much life from the sand bed by vacuuming. The micron sock sounds like a good idea but I'm not sure if any bad stuff could make it through the sock and return to the tank.

SS_Sean · 02/01/2016, 04:42 AM

I've had my display up and running for two years now. I've been struggling with my SPSs and have detectable phosphates. I've also been struggling with cyano outbreaks, and at this point I have cyano in certain spots all the time. I've tried treating with chemiclean, and moving my lights upwards. I've also started carefully feeding the fish with the powerhead off to ensure the fish are consuming the vast majority of the food introduced.
I've never disturbed my sand bed in the tank. When new it was about 4" deep. It's now down to around 3.5". I'm going to go ahead and start vacuuming. I'll do as others mentioned, and just do 10% at a time, unit the whole thing is done over a period of months, and that way the buildup of detritus wont effect the critters. I'll report back on the results.

salty joe · 02/01/2016, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS_Sean

I'll report back on the results.

Sounds good.

Boom · 02/03/2016, 02:08 PM

Love to see old threads revived! I have never had more than 2 inch sand beds in my tanks. I must say, though, I had a short period where my aragonite sand became aprostate and nitrate magnet. I tried all the "tricks" mentioned above to control nutes but was losing the battle to rebalance my system.
Finally I vacuumed ALL the sand in less than an hour with ZERO water changed. The end of the hose went into a home made filtersock, in my sump and kept the return pump on. I wish I had taken before and after pics just 24 hours later! Yes folks, coralline started showing growth again that fast! Phosphates went from 4 to .25, nitrates from 20 to undetectable after 48 hours. Because of the old adage "nothing good happens fast in a reef tank" I chose this method to avoid changing vast amounts of water and a big swing in my other tank parameters.
The next week, I removed most of the "clean" aragonite sand and replaced it with well washed pool silica sand and increased the flow. Now I have sand drifts around the rocks and bare bottom everywhere else.
I also use the turkey baster to "fluff" around and under rocks. Since implementation about 6 months ago, I've actually vacuumed my little sand drifts twice

Boom · 02/03/2016, 03:19 PM

Well, I can't seem to edit my last post... I meant "phosphate" where it says "aprostate" lol

Reefaholic1978 · 02/07/2016, 08:38 PM

Vacuum my whole 2 year sandbed twice on Thursday because no matter how much gfo I used my phosphate would not fall below 0.08 ppm and tested today and it fell down to 0.04 and have noticed growth on a stunded pink millepora. I also did the filter sock at the end of the hose so I went at it (worried) but 3 days later I have no regrets and have seen improvements on my sps. I will vacuum the bed with every water change from now on.

CStrickland · 02/08/2016, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boom

Well, I can't seem to edit my last post... I meant "phosphate" where it says "aprostate" lol

I read the autocorrect fail as "apostate" and had a chuckle over the converts to vac'ing in this thread

UTCReefer · 02/12/2016, 04:34 PM

My sandbed was about 5 years old. My sps stopped growing and so did the corraline. I also had uncontrollable phosphates, and a massive hair algae bloom. No matter how often i changed my GFO it would creep back up. I ended up siphoning out my entire sand bed. A few months later now and my phosphates are around .04-.06 and the Hair algae is all but gone from a few spots. What nice about having no sand is that i can use a powerhead to blow my rocks off once a week and then siphon out all the crud that collects at the bottom of my tank. Its amazing how much detritus comes out every week. I miss the sand but my tank is much more manageable with out it.

Osteoclast · 02/13/2016, 05:37 AM

I have a 1-2 inch sand bed. I try to siphon it with each 2 week water change. I think it helps me overall in reducing nutrients. It is part of my routine and sometimes is not discussed well. Prior to the water change I take time to clean the glass. I also skim, run carbon, a little GFO, dose vinegar, and use a UV. I adopted it after seeing successful tanks using the method up and running for years. Certainly others have excellent tanks without resorting to the siphon but I do mind it and it only takes a few minutes extra time to do. I am always amazed by how dark the collected water is.

SS_Sean · 02/16/2016, 01:13 PM

Okay... did part of the sand, as previously posted, and then hit the rest of the sand the next week. I've seen no ill effects from this. I had to dose lanth to get my phosphates down, and will check again on Wed. I'm going to incorporate this into my maintenance/upkeep routine. I also did a lights-out treatment for cyano, and seem to have that under control. Frankly, the tank has never looked better, and my params are all within spec. Thanks for the suggestion, guys!

02/11/2015, 09:56 PM	#102
BOMPH Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Ithaca, NY Posts: 134	Have to agree with vacuuming the substrate. No NO3 or PO4 to worry about, but lots of Cyano on sand bed, would clean it off, and within the hour I'd see it spotting back up. Last 2 weekends I siphoned the sand, and it's gone. Some nice black water came out in some areas, and I didn't lose too much sand. __________________ My Wallet Lies At The Bottom Of My Reef Current Tank Info: 125G Reef Ready w 30 Gallon DIY Sump, Reef Octopus NWB 150, Tunze Osmollator 3155 ATO, Eheim 1262 Return Pump, ATI Sunpower 8x80w, 2 x MP40. Neptune Apex. SPS and LPS

02/18/2015, 03:51 PM	#103
Reefin' Dude Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Durham, NC Posts: 739	removing the waste organic material removes the chance for inorganic N and P to be produced. whether or not this is a good thing all depends on the must have organisms in the system. some require amounts of available inorganic N and P, while others fine it toxic. the reverse is also true. the amount of siphoning of detritus should match the desired levels of the environment wishing to be emulated. G~ __________________ Friends don't let friends use refugiums. Current Tank Info: Not dead yet.

08/31/2015, 06:46 PM	#104
brad65ford Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: SWFL Posts: 1,219	Bring up a bump to a good thread with some questions on my current system, hopefully you guys can help or give suggestions. My 40g Fusion has 3-4" sand bed (black Hawaiian sand) its been running for 6-8 months and I haven't touched the sand (no vacuuming). I've watched the n03 increase from 30 to 50 ppm in the last two month regardless how many water changes and crappy Ghost skimmer (doesn't do squat) I've done. So thinking the only solution would be carbon dosing and we are 3 weeks in on Vodka dosing which we are up to 1ml a day now but haven't seen any decrease in no3 yet. Read this thread yesterday and it just makes so much sense it would be silly not to start this practice if it helps. End up starting yesterday doing a 30% water change but with vacuuming out the sand bed best i could with out getting any blast of nasty water in the rest of the water column. I'm assuming its to early to measure but the no3 was the same today 50ppm :-( Hopefully it comes down. Also i'm thinking this siphoning practices would be ideal for shallower sand beds then what i have mine seems to be a mix between normal and deep which would be hurting me. Any thoughts are more then welcome guys. Oh and whats amazing is though the corals aren't growing like weeds they sure aren't dieing except for trumpets which i've always had a hard time with. __________________ 525xl BB

08/31/2015, 06:53 PM	#105
brad65ford Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: SWFL Posts: 1,219	Bring up a bump to a good thread with some questions on my current system, hopefully you guys can help or give suggestions. My 40g Fusion has 3-4" sand bed (black Hawaiian sand) its been running for 6-8 months and I haven't touched the sand (no vacuuming). I've watched the n03 increase from 30 to 50 ppm in the last two month regardless how many water changes and crappy Ghost skimmer (doesn't do squat still don't understand how i'm not pulling skimmate with this high of n03) I've done. So thinking the only solution would be carbon dosing and we are 3 weeks in on Vodka dosing which we are up to 1ml a day now but haven't seen any decrease in no3 yet. Read this thread yesterday and it just makes so much sense it would be silly not to start this practice if it helps. End up starting yesterday doing a 30% water change but with vacuuming out the sand bed best i could with out getting any blast of nasty water in the rest of the water column. I'm assuming its to early to measure but the no3 was the same today 50ppm :-( Hopefully it comes down. Also i'm thinking this siphoning practices would be ideal for shallower sand beds then what i have mine seems to be a mix between normal and deep which would be hurting me. Any thoughts are more then welcome guys. Oh and whats amazing is though the corals aren't growing like weeds they sure aren't dieing except for trumpets which i've always had a hard time with. __________________ 525xl BB

09/04/2015, 05:03 PM	#111
brad65ford Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: SWFL Posts: 1,219	there needs to be more people that discuss this since the practice of keeping the sand bed (regardless how deep) is said to be left alone and when p04 or n03 is high start carbon dosing, bio-pellets, macro algae, ATS etc etc... If is all it takes to keep nutrients in check it should be discussed more since there are many more people that don't do it then do. __________________ 525xl BB

09/04/2015, 04:23 PM	#110
Newstead Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 80	Only had nano reefs for 3 1/2 years, so still a newbie, but I have seen the difference it makes to vacuum a sandbed. Our first salt tank was a Biocube 14 and I never vacuumed the sand, thinking that was correct (we had freshwater tanks for over 20 years). I battled algae for 3 years. When it sprang a leak in March we replaced it with a 29 and I began vacuuming the sand after month 3. The difference in nuisance algae has been amazing and so far, my corals are doing much better. The clown pair started spawning after the move - whether due to better conditions, the larger area or who knows what?

11/11/2015, 08:53 AM	#114
ReefChasing Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Metro Detroit, MI Posts: 42	I've had a deep sand bed for years. My tank was looking great for about 2 years. Crystal clear water, coralline and corals growing like crazy. Despite having a lot of flow on the sand bed and tons of life in it my tank crashed with a algae bloom around the 2 year mark and I lost all fish. The tank was left alone with only corals for about a year and a half before moving. The tank has been restocked with fish but it looks like old tank syndrome and coralline algae is unable to grow. I've been using a dual BRS reactor with a cup and a half of GFO and Carbon replaced every 2 weeks for about a month and a half. This past weekend I threw in the towel and started vacuuming the sand bed. My days of leaving the bed alone are over. I'll keep everyone posted on my progress as I continue to vacuum.

11/15/2015, 09:43 AM	#115
Green Chromis Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: miami,florida Posts: 640	Hi all. I use to siphon my 3 to 4 inch sand bed during every water change, now I stir up a portion of the sand bed using a turkey baster and a power head, filtering the water thru 2, 200 micron felt socks before it returns to the display tank. You would not believe the amount of gunk that these socks accumulate while doing this. When I siphoned the sand, the waste water would go directly into a floor drain, and I would lose all the life that I siphoned from the sand, while using a turkey baster and power head to disturb the sand and releasing all the crud accumulated in it most of the life remains in the tank, and what does get out is collected in the first sock, and I can return them to the system. My question is do the worms and other life get replenished fast enough if I just vacuum the sand bed and let it go into the floor drain, and does it really matter if I lose the life in the sand bed that happens when vacuuming? __________________ Natural Reefer Current Tank Info: 600 gallon Carribean Reef System, ETSS Protein Skimmer, 1.5HP Tradewinds Chiller, Reef Breeders Photon V2+ LED Lighting For The Refugium, Mitra LX7206 LED Lights For Display Tank

11/17/2015, 09:55 AM	#116
ReefChasing Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Metro Detroit, MI Posts: 42	I've done three separate 16 gallon water changes on my 130 gallon in the last week and I can still see tons of worms and life in the sand. I was always so worried about vacuuming out life from the bed but now I'll happily exchange fresh crystal clear salt water for crap water and a few lost worms. I don't think you'll have any problems losing too much life from the sand bed by vacuuming. The micron sock sounds like a good idea but I'm not sure if any bad stuff could make it through the sock and return to the tank.

02/01/2016, 04:42 AM	#117
SS_Sean Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: OR Posts: 669	I've had my display up and running for two years now. I've been struggling with my SPSs and have detectable phosphates. I've also been struggling with cyano outbreaks, and at this point I have cyano in certain spots all the time. I've tried treating with chemiclean, and moving my lights upwards. I've also started carefully feeding the fish with the powerhead off to ensure the fish are consuming the vast majority of the food introduced. I've never disturbed my sand bed in the tank. When new it was about 4" deep. It's now down to around 3.5". I'm going to go ahead and start vacuuming. I'll do as others mentioned, and just do 10% at a time, unit the whole thing is done over a period of months, and that way the buildup of detritus wont effect the critters. I'll report back on the results. __________________ 170g DT + 300g sump/fuge + 60g algae tank = 530g system.

02/03/2016, 02:08 PM	#119
Boom Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 187	Love to see old threads revived! I have never had more than 2 inch sand beds in my tanks. I must say, though, I had a short period where my aragonite sand became aprostate and nitrate magnet. I tried all the "tricks" mentioned above to control nutes but was losing the battle to rebalance my system. Finally I vacuumed ALL the sand in less than an hour with ZERO water changed. The end of the hose went into a home made filtersock, in my sump and kept the return pump on. I wish I had taken before and after pics just 24 hours later! Yes folks, coralline started showing growth again that fast! Phosphates went from 4 to .25, nitrates from 20 to undetectable after 48 hours. Because of the old adage "nothing good happens fast in a reef tank" I chose this method to avoid changing vast amounts of water and a big swing in my other tank parameters. The next week, I removed most of the "clean" aragonite sand and replaced it with well washed pool silica sand and increased the flow. Now I have sand drifts around the rocks and bare bottom everywhere else. I also use the turkey baster to "fluff" around and under rocks. Since implementation about 6 months ago, I've actually vacuumed my little sand drifts twice __________________ Pareto's Law apprentice

02/03/2016, 03:19 PM	#120
Boom Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 187	Well, I can't seem to edit my last post... I meant "phosphate" where it says "aprostate" lol __________________ Pareto's Law apprentice

02/07/2016, 08:38 PM	#121
Reefaholic1978 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 67	Vacuum my whole 2 year sandbed twice on Thursday because no matter how much gfo I used my phosphate would not fall below 0.08 ppm and tested today and it fell down to 0.04 and have noticed growth on a stunded pink millepora. I also did the filter sock at the end of the hose so I went at it (worried) but 3 days later I have no regrets and have seen improvements on my sps. I will vacuum the bed with every water change from now on.

02/12/2016, 04:34 PM	#123
UTCReefer Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: San Diego Posts: 652	My sandbed was about 5 years old. My sps stopped growing and so did the corraline. I also had uncontrollable phosphates, and a massive hair algae bloom. No matter how often i changed my GFO it would creep back up. I ended up siphoning out my entire sand bed. A few months later now and my phosphates are around .04-.06 and the Hair algae is all but gone from a few spots. What nice about having no sand is that i can use a powerhead to blow my rocks off once a week and then siphon out all the crud that collects at the bottom of my tank. Its amazing how much detritus comes out every week. I miss the sand but my tank is much more manageable with out it.

02/13/2016, 05:37 AM	#124
Osteoclast Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Franklin, TN Posts: 245	I have a 1-2 inch sand bed. I try to siphon it with each 2 week water change. I think it helps me overall in reducing nutrients. It is part of my routine and sometimes is not discussed well. Prior to the water change I take time to clean the glass. I also skim, run carbon, a little GFO, dose vinegar, and use a UV. I adopted it after seeing successful tanks using the method up and running for years. Certainly others have excellent tanks without resorting to the siphon but I do mind it and it only takes a few minutes extra time to do. I am always amazed by how dark the collected water is. __________________ 525/48" tall. Library Reef. Current Tank Info: 525 Mixed Reef SPS dominate

02/16/2016, 01:13 PM	#125
SS_Sean Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: OR Posts: 669	Okay... did part of the sand, as previously posted, and then hit the rest of the sand the next week. I've seen no ill effects from this. I had to dose lanth to get my phosphates down, and will check again on Wed. I'm going to incorporate this into my maintenance/upkeep routine. I also did a lights-out treatment for cyano, and seem to have that under control. Frankly, the tank has never looked better, and my params are all within spec. Thanks for the suggestion, guys! __________________ 170g DT + 300g sump/fuge + 60g algae tank = 530g system.