Dip to kill Xenia and softies only?

[dendrite]

I put kalkwasser in a 30 cc syringe with 20 gauge needle and injected the trunks of the Xenia. Worked pretty well, but like anything else you need to revisit in about a month. And repeat until no regrowth

[karimwassef]

I have 24 sqft of area to treat. I can do manual removal for several hours but the point of this thread is to not do that.

Dipping, spraying, etc...

[outssider]

don't you like the idea of injecting each one individually ???... boy are you lazy.....

[karimwassef]

Yes. I enjoy some elements of this hobby.

Mind numbing painstaking manual labor for hours is not one of them.

Yes. I am lazy:
Human innovation is about using intelligence to serve our laziness.
Nature is about economy- how to get the most benefit with the least effort.

All philosophies converge - I am at peace with my desires.

[Ihuntbugs]

Spray the damn things! LOL


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[zoafarm]

The fast is yes. You can easily kill all softies without harming other corals.

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[karimwassef]

Originally Posted by zoafarm

The fast is yes. You can easily kill all softies without harming other corals.

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and the "how" ?

[zoafarm]

You can use Fenbendazole (Fish Bendazole). I used it to remove blue clove polyps from my 150 gallon. It was super effective at killing blue clove, xenia, GSP, and waving hand. It did kill 2 out of 5 turbo snails; however, my SPS, LPS, Zoas, and fish all came through. The biggest issue is controlling the nutrient levels with the die off.

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[karimwassef]

Do you recommend dipping or adding it directly to the tank?

[2una]

Originally Posted by zoafarm

You can use Fenbendazole (Fish Bendazole). I used it to remove blue clove polyps from my 150 gallon. It was super effective at killing blue clove, xenia, GSP, and waving hand. It did kill 2 out of 5 turbo snails; however, my SPS, LPS, Zoas, and fish all came through. The biggest issue is controlling the nutrient levels with the die off.

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Originally Posted by karimwassef

Do you recommend dipping or adding it directly to the tank?

bump...also keen to read what you did

[zoafarm]

The following is a detailed timeline of how I eradicated Blue Clove Polyps from my tank...6 months later I still do not have ANY Blue Cloves in my tank. Although I know this will kill Waving Hand, I have HIGH confidence that it would kill other softies.




Eradicating Blue Clove Polyps with Fenbendazole

After trying to control these little buggers, they finally won the battle and started spreading throughout my new display tank. Although blue clove polyps are very pretty in my opinion, they started growing over my Fruitloop zoas and interfering with the encrusting of my SPS. This was the final straw. I decided it was time to take drastic action.

After researching a bit, I found that years ago Fluke Tabs were the way to eradicate blue clove. The problem is those fluke tabs are not sold anymore. After a lot more reading, I came across threads where people had used the Fenbendazole in dewormer (Safeguard) to kill hydroids in tanks used to breed seahorses. Later individuals experimented with it in reef environments with mixed results. But what these experiments did note was effectiveness at killing many soft corals; to include, blue clove, star polyps, xenia, waving hand, and blue sympodium. On the bright side, it didn't effect zoas/palys, SPS, LPS, Clams, shrimp, or anemones. However, certain snails were at significant risk (Turbo snails).

After reading more, I was concerned about putting dog dewormer in my tank primarily because it was only 22% Fendendazole. This meant that 78% was OTHER stuff -- this really was the deal killer. Then I found "Fish Bendazole" -- 99% Fendendazole. I decided to place order.

My order came in 2 days later. I was still nervous about putting it in my tank so it sat on my counter for almost a month. Finally, I decided to go ahead and give it a try.

From what I could find, 1 250mg packet of fish bendazole will treat 250 gallons. My volume is approximately 140 gallons.

My mixture:

800ml of RO water
250mg of fish bendazole (1 packet)
I shook the hell out of it and let it stand for a couple hours. Then I shook the hell out of it again. The mixture was very cloudy and does not dissolve very well. After the final shake, I let it sit for about 30 minutes. After it settled a bit (still cloudy), I used a turkey baster to dose 400ml directly onto the largest blue clove populations -- note: I did not pull the liquid from the bottom of the jar: I didn't want to get anything that settled out. This was a one time dose.

Carbon and Phosban reactor was taking offline. I continued to run the skimmer, but put the air intake under water.

Observations:

25 Feb 17 - Dosed tank at 5:00pm

Tank has a cloudy appearance
Blue clove were irritated for a moment, but opened right back up
Everything else in the tank looks completely normal (I'm expecting Turbo Snails to die in the process)


26 Feb 17 - 11:00am

Tank has cleared up to normal conditions
Blue cloves are obviously ****ed off - polyps are smaller but open.
Everything else is showing no changes -- clam is open, shrimp out and about, fish normal, all other coral look like ever other day.


26 Feb 17 - 5:00pm

Blue cloves are really shrunk up -- really unhappy
Everything else is still good -- even the Turbo Snails are out and about (no effects)


27 Feb 17 - 6:00pm

Blue cloves are all closed up -- some seem to be turning a white color
Everything else still good


28 Feb 17 - 6:00pm

Blue cloves are still closed up -- some appear to be melting
Zoas/Palys that were crowded by blue cloves have opened up and look much better
Everything else looks great -- even Turbos


1 Mar 17 - 6:00pm

Blue cloves are a bunch of blue dots on the rock - clearly in bad shape.
Everything else remains fine.
I will continue to monitor; however, I'm extremely happy with the results. My guess is another week and they will be complete gone. Once I'm happy that every blue clove is gone, I will resume skimming and carbon/phosban reactor.


2 Mar 17 - 5:00pm

Still a lot of little blue dots on the rock, but a lot have just melted away. However, today I noticed a few zoas closed up (most of them are open as normal). This could be any number of reasons, but I decided to bring the skimmer online. I did leave the carbon/phosban offline.

As a note of interest, the skimmer is very active.


5 Mar 17 - 5:30pm

Nearly all the blue clove is gone. I have turned all the reactors / skimmer back on.

6 Mar 17 - 7:00pm

So, I'm a week into this treatment. Nearly all the blue clove are GONE...I still have a few light blue dot on a couple rocks, but none of them are open. I would call the treatment very effective. On the March 2nd I did notice a few zoas closed up, but nothing serious. So, I restarted the skimmer and reactors (but no water change). Although I did not have big concerns about the treatment and I didn't do any water tests, I was thinking I might be having a slight increase in ammonia due to the die off. Hence the reason I turned everything back on, I also added a poly pad and reduced my nitrate dosing to 30 ml.

Today, all my zoas are open and very happy (even look larger and brighter). All my other corals look normal (just like before the treatment or better). I do have 2 Turbo snails that look stunned, but the other turbos are moving about just like normal...Nerite snails are fine too. Today, I decided to go ahead and do a 20%+ water change...only because the blue clove are nearly all gone.


13 Mar 17 - 6:00pm

Three weeks in...All blue clove polyps are completely gone. I believe I had a slight cycle...my clam closed up, one SPS suffered some STN, Candy canes LPS don't look good, and I have some green algae. I stopped nitrate dosing for algae. Yesterday my clam opened back up...so I think I'm in the clear.

On the bright side...ALL blue cloves are gone. It also kills Waving Hand as well...I had some in the sump...GONE.

As a note, I think I would have had some issues if I would have had much more die off. If you have a lot of blue clove, I would have Water Changes ready to go.


Hope this helps someone. Super inexpensive and effective.

As a side note for new reefers, more is not better...slow and steady. Overdosing this product will likely have negative side effects. My guess would be snails and shrimp. Also note --- many softies may be effected by this treatment and the effects may be long-term (5 to 6 months...maybe longer). If you plan to have the corals I mentioned at the beginning of this post, DO NOT use this treatment.

Happy Reefing!

[zoafarm]

All of this was in tank prior to dosing.

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[2una]

Originally Posted by zoafarm

All of this was in tank prior to dosing.

Thanks for coming back - i did find your blog researching.
By any chance did you happen to have a goniopora/flowerpot in when you dosed at all? My suspicions are it should get removed but curious in case you did have one in.
Many thanks for posting your findings, going to try some Panacur 5%
liquid & see - also trying to get rid of problem xenia that are past kalking

[zoafarm]

No I did not, but I would not run the risk.

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[Zacktosterone]

pull the rock out and use a blow torch

[orcafood]

I second dartier's suggestion to drop the nutrients. In the past when I have started to aggressively remove nutrients with carbon dosing, xenia, gsp and chaeto were always the first to go. Not sure if it was low nitrate or phosphate that did it though.

Fenbendazole seems like just what you want though haha

[karimwassef]

Yup! got the fenbendazole to experiment.

If I drop feeding, my sps growth slows

No measurable N or P in the tank. Just food.

[orcafood]

Even though you can't test such low levels you must have nitrate and phosphate. If you drop them even lower with carbon dosing many of the softies, especially the fast growing like gsp and xenia with melt away. I used to use xenia to gauge my carbon dosing, trying to just barely keep it alive. No need to stop feeding I think.

[karimwassef]

No carbon dosing for me. Too unnatural imo. Also requires skimming which I won't do.

That's why I said "no measurable" N and P. There's always some but if it's below the kits, it doesn't matter. I like it just there- not measurable and constantly converted into my algal biomass as nature intended it.

[karimwassef]

By the way, I did go for the ULNS and went deep into undetectable ranges so all algae died.

Unfortunately, that environment is perfect for bacteria and dinos and the tank turned into a septic tank of death...

Never again. I like nature in balance and I relish my algae... they're the most important organisms in my coral tank.

[orcafood]

good luck with the fenbendazole!

[karimwassef]

Thanks! I've had the packets for a couple of weeks but I keep stalling.
I love all my slugs and snail and worms... like a farmer loves earthworms.
I'm big on natural solutions so this makes me very uncomfortable.

[2una]

Originally Posted by karimwassef

Thanks! I've had the packets for a couple of weeks but I keep stalling.
I love all my slugs and snail and worms... like a farmer loves earthworms.
I'm big on natural solutions so this makes me very uncomfortable.

I also have it sitting here now & chickened out using it.
Gone back at them with kalk paste,muriatic acid they also aren't keen on but i think it needs to be injected....i tried a spray over & they sulked for a day but bounced back.
kalk sends alk & ph thru the roof,muriatic drops it...there's maybe a mix of the 2 that might lower the swing being so hectic.

Also tried the overloaded reactor with aluminium based phos remover & that did nothing.

Going see how this goes & if i can't win then filefish might be on the cards

[karimwassef]

My filefish didn't eat Xenia.

[2una]

Originally Posted by karimwassef

My filefish didn't eat Xenia.

I lost it yesterday.... i kalked the hell out of them 2 weeks ago & get home from working away to find them all sprouting back up where they were again.
I dosed 2ml of liquid Panacur 5% & 24 hrs in they look to be becoming toast.(160-170G tank)
Snails were still feeding last night,clove polyps a little annoyed but not dieing....seems a lower dose is ok for just the xenia.
Will see how things look tomorrow as to whether i need to put more in but at present i don't think i'll need to.
This is what i could find here & what i used - http://www.msd-animal-health.co.za/p...t_details.aspx