Yet another bristleworm or fireworm ID

[Muller]

I have had this guy in my tank for a while and have watched him grow to about 3.5 -4 inches and can easily stretch out to about 6+. Now from what I have read is that bristleworms are scavengers and will only eat a dying/dead fish and fireworms will prey on living fish. Today I saw him munching on a sharknose goby that I had just got. Is this a fireworm and took down the goby? Or was the goby on his way out?

Bristle or Fire???

[Calappidae]

I confuse the two all the time so I'm not going to ID..

But one thing I do know is reguardless if it's a fire or bristle they are both the same in terms of aggressiviness (he didn't hurt the goby)

Only difference is one's spines are venomous.

[billsreef]

Most likely a harmless bristle worm. Definatley not a fireworm (which is a type of bristleworm), as fireworms are heavy bodied with much more pronounced bristles.

BTW, neither are venomous. It's one of those old wives tales

[Betta132]

Actually, both have venomous spines. I'm not saying they'll kill you, but they do possess a toxin found in spines- by definition, that's venom. You don't wanna touch bristleworms or fireworms... Hurts like the dickens. Fireworms do tend to have stronger toxin, I believe.

[billsreef]

Nope, no toxin. A professor of mine (years ago) that specialized in marine critter toxins/venom looked for those reported fireworm toxins...didn't find any That fireworm venom is something that often gets repeated, even in what one would think are good sources, but it just isn't there.

[Betta132]

Really?
Because I've met people who were stung and had the wound swell up and act like some sort of toxin was present. Infection, maybe?

[billsreef]

Between the spine themselves and the seawater, simple inflammation, infection and allergic reaction are all possible

[Calappidae]

I'm just curious, is there any sources or documents online of the research?

IIRC there is no difference between fireworm and bristle except that a couple known species of the fireworms are declared venomous.

Hermodice carunculata has been known to release spines on contact and cause a strong burning irritation varying among individuals depending on sensitivity. This irritation has been described similar to an adverage bee sting.

[billsreef]

Originally Posted by Calappidae

I'm just curious, is there any sources or documents online of the research?

There are a lot of sources claiming Hermodice has venomous spines. However, when you look at those sources, none actually specify any particular toxin or cite papers that do. That's the reason my old professor wanted to look at them to find a toxin, if one existed. What he found was a total lack of any toxins. Not much of a paper to get from that, so as far as I know he never wrote and published a paper on that subject, preferring to spend the time on marine critters that he did find toxins in. While I was never a chemist, I did spend time collecting cowfish, firesponges (no toxin there either), and fireworms for him back in my student days

Hermodice carunculata has been known to release spines on contact and cause a strong burning irritation varying among individuals depending on sensitivity. This irritation has been described similar to an adverage bee sting.

IMO, the "sting" from Hermodice is on par with getting a finger full of fine fiberglass while submerged in seawater. Also right up there with getting bunch of firesponge spicules in your fingers. I've experienced all of those for myself

[Betta132]

Theory; could the swelling be due to spines breaking up? Swelling/inflammation occurs when the body expands the blood vessels in order to get more white blood cells to the area. It usually indicates an infection or foreign matter. Maybe the spines are shattering and that's what causes the trouble? Well, that plus saltwater/germs/etc.

[Switters]

Does anyone know of any critters or fish that will eat bristleworms? I have quite a few in my tank and would like to know if there is something that would enjoy munching on them.

[billsreef]

Arrow Crabs, Coral Banded Shrimp, and handful of wrasses will eat the smaller ones.

[Betta132]

Originally Posted by Switters

Does anyone know of any critters or fish that will eat bristleworms? I have quite a few in my tank and would like to know if there is something that would enjoy munching on them.

They aren't usually harmful, though. They scavenge and can clean things out for you. In fact, they're basically poky earthworms. If you have too many, you can try cutting back on feeding a bit.