I'm watching my largest and oldest acro colony RTN.... Suggestions?

deputydog95 · 10/26/2019, 04:27 PM

This is sad... I've had this colony for years and it's been thriving. So much so it expanded out and had been growing up the back wall of my tank and down the rock in front of it. Sure sign that it was happy at one point....

About 2 weeks ago, I noticed some bare spots on the base. Tissue below it was good and the tissue above it was good too. Figured it might be shading and didn't give it much thought.

It's getting way more aggressive now with the top going RTN in one part.

No explanation for this... I did see some white dots on the middle base where the color left the tissue and and they've expanded to other bare spots now. I've tried picking at them and they don't come off.

It's been forever since I've added anything new to the tank as I'm out of room.

Alk 9
Ca 440
Mg 1320
Temp 79
pH 7.9 to 8.2
Salinity 1.026
P04 .08
NO3 .75

Sorry for the crappy cell phone pics... There's some phyto in the water too which makes it hard to get clear pics with all the floating particulate.

Thoughts?

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deputydog95 · 10/26/2019, 04:28 PM

Slightly better pic....

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deputydog95 · 10/26/2019, 04:29 PM

Recent trident test.

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swk · 10/26/2019, 04:30 PM

I’d always have random problems with long established pieces when mp40’s would start rusting. It was like clockwork for me. Maybe check out your equipment for signs of corrosion.

Sam2832 · 10/26/2019, 05:53 PM

Had the same thing happen last year to long established colonies.
Your parameters seem ok, you should try to get a frag of it just in case.
The one i lost to rtn

The remaining frag

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A Aaron · 10/26/2019, 06:10 PM

As someone said I did have something similar happen and found a frag rack rusty magnet. I thought it could be that since it’s only happened to one colony but it could be the most sensitive. May a icp test would be worth it? Better to spend the money and test Incase it gets worse.

Pife · 10/26/2019, 07:28 PM

Do you know what aefw eggs look like? I'd guess a pest or it may need more flow.

macdaddynick1 · 10/27/2019, 11:17 AM

Some things to check, exhausted DI resin, Flow, Low Potassium, Acropora Eating flatworm, really effective refugium that’s pulling the elements and nutrients out of the water. The colony it might not be getting enough light and your nutrients are too low for the colony to support the shaded parts. Not sure if those things are the answer in your case but one of those might guide you in the right direction.

ycnibrc · 10/27/2019, 05:43 PM

Dip the colony and see if aefw are there. Big colony die with good quality water only either stress cause by pest or lack of flow. Frag s few frag dip in lugos solution and see if u can keep it and re grow it again.

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A Aaron · 11/03/2019, 10:40 PM

Is it getting worse still

C.Eymann · 11/06/2019, 03:20 PM

I'd be trying to throw a little more flow at it and liue others mentioned be on the lookout for AEFW, both bitemarks and eggs. Camera macro lens can really help with this
Also how rapidly has this been receeding?

deputydog95 · 11/07/2019, 09:09 AM

Hi folks. Thanks for all the great replies. Just to update the thread...

It's been going on for about a month and tj colony is about smoked at this point.

Tons of flow with two Apex wav's, a gyre, and a healthy return pump.

Par for the colony is around 400. It's right at the top and is under 3 kessil 360 and 4 T5's.

I tried adding flatwork exit last weekend. Nothing happened with the first dose, added an extra dose and still nothing. So I'm guessing flat worms we're not the issue.

I've since lowered the alk, or tried to lower the alk to around 8 to take some stress off. Unfortunately the tank is barely pulling any alk or calcium while the colony is dying off. I have a ton of SPS and a large clam, so I'm guessing the die off is irritating everything.....

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deputydog95 · 11/07/2019, 09:11 AM

I did inspect the magnets, and didn't see any signs of compromise.

The most recent ICP test didn't show anything way out of line either.

RODI resins are fresh, as I just changed them all in the past month. TDS after the RO is 5 and 0 after the DI resin.

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deputydog95 · 11/07/2019, 09:24 AM

Here's a pic from a few minutes ago. Essentially the only parts left are the front and back where it's encrusted down the rock and up the bottom of the tank. Sad, this was a really cool piece and it was quite large.

I guess it needs to come out, but I have no idea how.

Any suggestions? It's pretty well welded itself to the rock and there are other corals that have encrusted on the same rock.

Or should I just start putting frags on top of it?

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outssider · 11/07/2019, 06:26 PM

If it dies, you're going to have a huge algae mess. hermit crabs/snails are going to have a tough time getting between the branches. I have a friend that says he has used a long chisel and hammer (with coral still in the tank) that scares the hell out of me !....can you pull the whole rock out ? …..I have had rocks welded together with coral binding them

deputydog95 · 11/07/2019, 07:36 PM

It's already happening... The crabs and tangs are attacking it, but with so much light, so high in the tank, it's rapidly getting covered in algae.

Unfortunately there are a bunch of other corals on the same rock and it's all encrusted together.

I guess I could try taking my coral snips and breaking it apart. Will probably make a massive mess.

The die off is really ****ing the rest of the tank, big time. I turned my ca and alk dosing off today and the readings barely went down (using a Trident).... I was dosing 90ml a day of alk just to keep up prior to this getting all weird.

Running the skimmer a little wetter and doing a water change in the morning.

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outssider · 11/08/2019, 06:27 PM

that rock is on the top of your tank. Can you pull the whole rock out ?

I would pull the whole rock, put it on the work table in my garage and start whacking it with a hammer and large screwdriver or chisel.... take care not to disturb the other corals on the rock.....(you will damage the other corals somewhat, try to have someone hold the rock while you whack on it)

macdaddynick1 · 11/10/2019, 06:43 PM

How old are your t5s?

deputydog95 · 11/10/2019, 07:12 PM

About 6 weeks. Reasonably new.

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steallife904 · 11/15/2019, 12:51 PM

had a colony the size of a soccer ball one time for no reason do the same and die. Nothing else in the tank affected, just the large one. Never found out why, my only guess was not enough light reaching the bottom and once it started it was to stressed to recover???????

ineedhungry · 11/23/2019, 08:08 PM

Did you by chance and any new acro’s to your tank?

I had an issue once where I forgot to dip and acro and it came in with the acro eating worms. Started doing the same thing to my oldest acros. I ended up putting pipe fish in the tank and they ate the worms. Coral bounced back after that.

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five.five-six · 11/24/2019, 08:01 AM

Sorry to hear, very frustrating

xgd · 11/25/2019, 04:55 PM

i feel it , sucks ..... i would do few water changes . try to frag and save .

Bpb · 11/26/2019, 03:46 PM

Yeah. It happens. Can’t always pinpoint why either. Sometimes a colony just gets so big that it doesn’t get enough flow deep in the colony which will begin to stress it and once that sets in, normal bacterial infection can just consume the entire colony quickly. I recently lost two colonies roughly 18-20” across each at the widest point. Both started necrosing from the middle of the main trunk. And both stopped once there was about 1” left on a few branches. I usually just do a couple big water changes and run some poly filter for a week and stuff bounces back. It’s hard to keep huge colonies like that happy. Even with a ton of flow they tend to develop dead spots deep in the middle or base. No guarantee it was a pest or a errant parameter. Sometimes it’s just life in captivity. Even when you see videos detailing Sanjays’s tank or Paletta’s huge tanks, you’ll see the occasional RTN’d colony tucked among the bunch that doesn’t get mentioned in the video.

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Softhammer · 12/22/2019, 06:59 PM

I have the exact same thing going on too. A chunk of green stag that I have had for over a decade has gone that way. I fragged 3 bits for survival and sure as hell it had red bugs. Doing an interceptor treatment tonight.

10/26/2019, 04:27 PM	#1
deputydog95 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Sarasota, FL Posts: 966	I'm watching my largest and oldest acro colony RTN.... Suggestions? This is sad... I've had this colony for years and it's been thriving. So much so it expanded out and had been growing up the back wall of my tank and down the rock in front of it. Sure sign that it was happy at one point.... About 2 weeks ago, I noticed some bare spots on the base. Tissue below it was good and the tissue above it was good too. Figured it might be shading and didn't give it much thought. It's getting way more aggressive now with the top going RTN in one part. No explanation for this... I did see some white dots on the middle base where the color left the tissue and and they've expanded to other bare spots now. I've tried picking at them and they don't come off. It's been forever since I've added anything new to the tank as I'm out of room. Alk 9 Ca 440 Mg 1320 Temp 79 pH 7.9 to 8.2 Salinity 1.026 P04 .08 NO3 .75 Sorry for the crappy cell phone pics... There's some phyto in the water too which makes it hard to get clear pics with all the floating particulate. Thoughts? Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk __________________ Red Sea Reefer 500 Peninsula, Apex Controller, Apex Wav (2), Apex DOS, Kessil 360WE (3), T5's (4), Kessil H160 Fuge light, RO Regal 150SSS Skimmer, RO DC Return Pump, Red Sea A&B

10/26/2019, 04:28 PM	#2
deputydog95 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Sarasota, FL Posts: 966	Slightly better pic.... Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk __________________ Red Sea Reefer 500 Peninsula, Apex Controller, Apex Wav (2), Apex DOS, Kessil 360WE (3), T5's (4), Kessil H160 Fuge light, RO Regal 150SSS Skimmer, RO DC Return Pump, Red Sea A&B

10/26/2019, 04:29 PM	#3
deputydog95 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Sarasota, FL Posts: 966	Recent trident test. Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk __________________ Red Sea Reefer 500 Peninsula, Apex Controller, Apex Wav (2), Apex DOS, Kessil 360WE (3), T5's (4), Kessil H160 Fuge light, RO Regal 150SSS Skimmer, RO DC Return Pump, Red Sea A&B

10/26/2019, 04:30 PM	#4
swk Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Wine Country CA Posts: 2,593	I’d always have random problems with long established pieces when mp40’s would start rusting. It was like clockwork for me. Maybe check out your equipment for signs of corrosion. __________________ Member of Wine Country Reefers Current Tank Info: 75 gal SPS dominant reef. Geo calcium reactor with masterflex pump, Deltec 1455 skimmer, 2 mp40QD, mp10wes, lit by a 6x54 dimable ATI sunpower and controlled by Reef Angel

10/26/2019, 07:28 PM	#7
Pife Registered Member Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 7,408	Do you know what aefw eggs look like? I'd guess a pest or it may need more flow. __________________ Brandon I'm not saying let's get rid of all the stupid people.* I'm just saying let's remove all the warning labels and let the problem work itself out. Current Tank Info: 150g DT plumbed to an 80g frag tank and 220g sump in the basement. ~6-MP40s ~ 12 ATI powered t5s ~ Reefbrites and Radions supplementing ~ Custom GEO Skimmer ~ GEO CA Reactor 6x24~ Iwaki 70 Return ~

10/26/2019, 05:53 PM	#5
Sam2832 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Montréal Posts: 79	Had the same thing happen last year to long established colonies. Your parameters seem ok, you should try to get a frag of it just in case. The one i lost to rtn The remaining frag Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

10/26/2019, 06:10 PM	#6
A Aaron Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2019 Posts: 37	As someone said I did have something similar happen and found a frag rack rusty magnet. I thought it could be that since it’s only happened to one colony but it could be the most sensitive. May a icp test would be worth it? Better to spend the money and test Incase it gets worse.

10/27/2019, 11:17 AM	#8
macdaddynick1 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 537	Some things to check, exhausted DI resin, Flow, Low Potassium, Acropora Eating flatworm, really effective refugium that’s pulling the elements and nutrients out of the water. The colony it might not be getting enough light and your nutrients are too low for the colony to support the shaded parts. Not sure if those things are the answer in your case but one of those might guide you in the right direction.

10/27/2019, 05:43 PM	#9
ycnibrc STAG HORN DOMINATE REEF Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Irvine, California Posts: 3,348	Dip the colony and see if aefw are there. Big colony die with good quality water only either stress cause by pest or lack of flow. Frag s few frag dip in lugos solution and see if u can keep it and re grow it again. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ SDR STAGHORN DOMINATE REEF Feature Reef of November 2019 GHL TOTM FEB 2020 ABC corals Current Tank Info: 360g Peninsula sps

11/03/2019, 10:40 PM	#10
A Aaron Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2019 Posts: 37	Is it getting worse still

11/06/2019, 03:20 PM	#11
C.Eymann Cnidaria lover Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Winterpark FL Posts: 1,483	I'd be trying to throw a little more flow at it and liue others mentioned be on the lookout for AEFW, both bitemarks and eggs. Camera macro lens can really help with this Also how rapidly has this been receeding? __________________ "I glue animals to rocks" Current Tank Info: 80gal build in the works

11/07/2019, 09:09 AM	#12
deputydog95 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Sarasota, FL Posts: 966	Hi folks. Thanks for all the great replies. Just to update the thread... It's been going on for about a month and tj colony is about smoked at this point. Tons of flow with two Apex wav's, a gyre, and a healthy return pump. Par for the colony is around 400. It's right at the top and is under 3 kessil 360 and 4 T5's. I tried adding flatwork exit last weekend. Nothing happened with the first dose, added an extra dose and still nothing. So I'm guessing flat worms we're not the issue. I've since lowered the alk, or tried to lower the alk to around 8 to take some stress off. Unfortunately the tank is barely pulling any alk or calcium while the colony is dying off. I have a ton of SPS and a large clam, so I'm guessing the die off is irritating everything..... Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk __________________ Red Sea Reefer 500 Peninsula, Apex Controller, Apex Wav (2), Apex DOS, Kessil 360WE (3), T5's (4), Kessil H160 Fuge light, RO Regal 150SSS Skimmer, RO DC Return Pump, Red Sea A&B

11/07/2019, 09:11 AM	#13
deputydog95 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Sarasota, FL Posts: 966	I did inspect the magnets, and didn't see any signs of compromise. The most recent ICP test didn't show anything way out of line either. RODI resins are fresh, as I just changed them all in the past month. TDS after the RO is 5 and 0 after the DI resin. Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk __________________ Red Sea Reefer 500 Peninsula, Apex Controller, Apex Wav (2), Apex DOS, Kessil 360WE (3), T5's (4), Kessil H160 Fuge light, RO Regal 150SSS Skimmer, RO DC Return Pump, Red Sea A&B

11/07/2019, 09:24 AM	#14
deputydog95 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Sarasota, FL Posts: 966	Here's a pic from a few minutes ago. Essentially the only parts left are the front and back where it's encrusted down the rock and up the bottom of the tank. Sad, this was a really cool piece and it was quite large. I guess it needs to come out, but I have no idea how. Any suggestions? It's pretty well welded itself to the rock and there are other corals that have encrusted on the same rock. Or should I just start putting frags on top of it? Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk __________________ Red Sea Reefer 500 Peninsula, Apex Controller, Apex Wav (2), Apex DOS, Kessil 360WE (3), T5's (4), Kessil H160 Fuge light, RO Regal 150SSS Skimmer, RO DC Return Pump, Red Sea A&B

11/07/2019, 06:26 PM	#15
outssider Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Reseda, Ca. Posts: 1,717	If it dies, you're going to have a huge algae mess. hermit crabs/snails are going to have a tough time getting between the branches. I have a friend that says he has used a long chisel and hammer (with coral still in the tank) that scares the hell out of me !....can you pull the whole rock out ? …..I have had rocks welded together with coral binding them __________________ Please don't feed the bears because the bears will become dependent on free handouts and forget how to take care of themselves …... Current Tank Info: 75 Gal. Mixed reef mostly sps

11/07/2019, 07:36 PM	#16
deputydog95 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Sarasota, FL Posts: 966	It's already happening... The crabs and tangs are attacking it, but with so much light, so high in the tank, it's rapidly getting covered in algae. Unfortunately there are a bunch of other corals on the same rock and it's all encrusted together. I guess I could try taking my coral snips and breaking it apart. Will probably make a massive mess. The die off is really ****ing the rest of the tank, big time. I turned my ca and alk dosing off today and the readings barely went down (using a Trident).... I was dosing 90ml a day of alk just to keep up prior to this getting all weird. Running the skimmer a little wetter and doing a water change in the morning. Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk __________________ Red Sea Reefer 500 Peninsula, Apex Controller, Apex Wav (2), Apex DOS, Kessil 360WE (3), T5's (4), Kessil H160 Fuge light, RO Regal 150SSS Skimmer, RO DC Return Pump, Red Sea A&B

11/08/2019, 06:27 PM	#17
outssider Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Reseda, Ca. Posts: 1,717	that rock is on the top of your tank. Can you pull the whole rock out ? I would pull the whole rock, put it on the work table in my garage and start whacking it with a hammer and large screwdriver or chisel.... take care not to disturb the other corals on the rock.....(you will damage the other corals somewhat, try to have someone hold the rock while you whack on it) __________________ Please don't feed the bears because the bears will become dependent on free handouts and forget how to take care of themselves …... Current Tank Info: 75 Gal. Mixed reef mostly sps

11/10/2019, 06:43 PM	#18
macdaddynick1 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 537	How old are your t5s?

11/10/2019, 07:12 PM	#19
deputydog95 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Sarasota, FL Posts: 966	About 6 weeks. Reasonably new. Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk __________________ Red Sea Reefer 500 Peninsula, Apex Controller, Apex Wav (2), Apex DOS, Kessil 360WE (3), T5's (4), Kessil H160 Fuge light, RO Regal 150SSS Skimmer, RO DC Return Pump, Red Sea A&B

11/15/2019, 12:51 PM	#20
steallife904 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 944	had a colony the size of a soccer ball one time for no reason do the same and die. Nothing else in the tank affected, just the large one. Never found out why, my only guess was not enough light reaching the bottom and once it started it was to stressed to recover???????

11/23/2019, 08:08 PM	#21
ineedhungry Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 12	Did you by chance and any new acro’s to your tank? I had an issue once where I forgot to dip and acro and it came in with the acro eating worms. Started doing the same thing to my oldest acros. I ended up putting pipe fish in the tank and they ate the worms. Coral bounced back after that. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

11/24/2019, 08:01 AM	#22
five.five-six Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Corona Posts: 7,827 Blog Entries: 6	Sorry to hear, very frustrating __________________ Originally posted by yellowslayer13: "I hate that hole" Current Tank Info: SCMAS Member 225 peninsula euroreef RS180 Apex 400W X 3 20k radiums / Spectra mixed SPS

11/25/2019, 04:55 PM	#23
xgd Registered Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 35	i feel it , sucks ..... i would do few water changes . try to frag and save .

11/26/2019, 03:46 PM	#24
Bpb Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 3,148	Yeah. It happens. Can’t always pinpoint why either. Sometimes a colony just gets so big that it doesn’t get enough flow deep in the colony which will begin to stress it and once that sets in, normal bacterial infection can just consume the entire colony quickly. I recently lost two colonies roughly 18-20” across each at the widest point. Both started necrosing from the middle of the main trunk. And both stopped once there was about 1” left on a few branches. I usually just do a couple big water changes and run some poly filter for a week and stuff bounces back. It’s hard to keep huge colonies like that happy. Even with a ton of flow they tend to develop dead spots deep in the middle or base. No guarantee it was a pest or a errant parameter. Sometimes it’s just life in captivity. Even when you see videos detailing Sanjays’s tank or Paletta’s huge tanks, you’ll see the occasional RTN’d colony tucked among the bunch that doesn’t get mentioned in the video. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

12/22/2019, 06:59 PM	#25
Softhammer Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Tampa Posts: 235	I have the exact same thing going on too. A chunk of green stag that I have had for over a decade has gone that way. I fragged 3 bits for survival and sure as hell it had red bugs. Doing an interceptor treatment tonight. __________________ You spent how much on what?