SPS and I don't get along

Ironwood · 10/17/2017, 06:27 AM

I have been trying to keep SPS for a couple of years now and for some reason just can't keep it alive. My parameters have been stable for a long time. I'm able to keep softies, clam, Anemone without a problem. My parameters are PH 8.1, Alk 8-9, Cal 400, Mag 1400, Nitrate 0. I use red sea coral pro salt Last Jan I updated my lighting to Radion pro's from reef breeders and still can't keep SPS. I'm starting to wonder if my well water has something in it that is causing the problem. I use an rodi system the results in o tds at the output but still wonder if I'm missing something. My powerheads are two Maxspec 230's flow seems good. My tank size is 150gal with a 40gal sump. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Gweeds · 10/17/2017, 06:32 AM

Could be chemical warfare from the softies potentially... you mention alk of 8-9... how often does that fluctuate? If that's over a month that'd be fine, if it's over 24 hours would be too much of a swing for most SPS to deal with. Also, nitrates are on the low side, if it's truly zero then I would think softies in particular would be struggling... I'm guessing it's either a dodgy test or they're being used as they're produced. You might want to try upping nitrates a little. Also, what's your po4 reading? If this is on the high side, nems and softies will be fine but it can interfere with calcification...

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Ironwood · 10/17/2017, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gweeds

Could be chemical warfare from the softies potentially... you mention alk of 8-9... how often does that fluctuate? If that's over a month that'd be fine, if it's over 24 hours would be too much of a swing for most SPS to deal with. Also, nitrates are on the low side, if it's truly zero then I would think softies in particular would be struggling... I'm guessing it's either a dodgy test or they're being used as they're produced. You might want to try upping nitrates a little. Also, what's your po4 reading? If this is on the high side, nems and softies will be fine but it can interfere with calcification...

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Thanks for the response. My Alk does move a little but it is very slow. I use a redsea test kit for measuring Nitrate and it always seems to come out zero even though I have a lot of fish and feed fairly heavy.
At this time I don't know what my Po4 is. I use to have a hanna checker but it always read zero even though I had algae so I got rid of it. I use to run GFO in a reactor but stopped a couple of months ago thinking that it could be the culprit but that didn't seem to change anything either. That is why I'm starting to think that it is something to do with my well water.

Gweeds · 10/17/2017, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironwood

Thanks for the response. My Alk does move a little but it is very slow. I use a redsea test kit for measuring Nitrate and it always seems to come out zero even though I have a lot of fish and feed fairly heavy.
At this time I don't know what my Po4 is. I use to have a hanna checker but it always read zero even though I had algae so I got rid of it. I use to run GFO in a reactor but stopped a couple of months ago thinking that it could be the culprit but that didn't seem to change anything either. That is why I'm starting to think that it is something to do with my well water.

Zero nitrates and phosphates is a common result in a tank with algae... the nutes are used up by the algae before they can register in the water column. That you're getting zero TDS but don't know the po4 would suggest to me that you check that avenue before blaming the well water...

Do you still have algae or not? What nutrient export are you using?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Ironwood · 10/17/2017, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gweeds

Zero nitrates and phosphates is a common result in a tank with algae... the nutes are used up by the algae before they can register in the water column. That you're getting zero TDS but don't know the po4 would suggest to me that you check that avenue before blaming the well water...

Do you still have algae or not? What nutrient export are you using?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

I do have some algae but it's not bad. I use a Skimmer for export I use to use a reef Octopus but upgraded to a Skimz even though they seem to work the same.

Gweeds · 10/17/2017, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironwood

I do have some algae but it's not bad. I use a Skimmer for export I use to use a reef Octopus but upgraded to a Skimz even though they seem to work the same.

Ok, so I'd check po4 for sure... if that's at zero too, could be the issue.

What's your lighting schedule and intensity?

Also, what SPS have you tried?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Ironwood · 10/17/2017, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gweeds

Ok, so I'd check po4 for sure... if that's at zero too, could be the issue.

What's your lighting schedule and intensity?

Also, what SPS have you tried?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

So SPS likes/needs phosphate? I have tried Montipora, acropora.

Gweeds · 10/17/2017, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironwood

So SPS likes/needs phosphate? I have tried Montipora, acropora.

A thin line... the zoox need some po4 but too much inhibits calcification. Aim for somewhere around 0.010ppm to 0.025ppm.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

murphreef · 10/17/2017, 01:48 PM

How do your SPS end up dying? RTN, STN, bleaching ?? How they die will tell a lot on what might be happening.

I would strongly suggest changing up salt brands. Sometimes certain salts just have something off in them even if you measure everything something might be off. I would suggest trying Tropic Marin Pro and do some large 10-20% water changes a few days apart until you have done approximately 100% in WC.

Everytime I see issues in my tank a decent WC always seems to help.

Gweeds · 10/17/2017, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironwood

So SPS likes/needs phosphate? I have tried Montipora, acropora.

Maybe try birdsnest (seriatopora) once any issues are sorted... pretty hardy as sps go, certainly less finnicky than acros.

Also, flow... what sort of turnover are you achieving?

You'll need good, random flow with around 50x tank volume per hour... don't forget most manufacturers overstate maximum flow rates.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

outssider · 10/17/2017, 03:53 PM

If you have many fish and feed them well, I doubt low nutrients are your problem even if their showing up as .....0....

jda · 10/18/2017, 08:14 PM

If you are driving your N and P toward zero with GFO, Organic Carbon or Lanthanum Chloride, then stop. If they are there naturally, then you are OK - be assured that you have some. If you were/are driving them too low, this is usually a dull-color thing and not death.

Do you tinker with your lights?

If you run your well water through RO/DI and the DI is not exhausted, then you are probably OK. Get a Triton or other ICP test if you want to be sure.

Ironwood · 10/19/2017, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murphreef

How do your SPS end up dying? RTN, STN, bleaching ?? How they die will tell a lot on what might be happening.

I would strongly suggest changing up salt brands. Sometimes certain salts just have something off in them even if you measure everything something might be off. I would suggest trying Tropic Marin Pro and do some large 10-20% water changes a few days apart until you have done approximately 100% in WC.

Everytime I see issues in my tank a decent WC always seems to help.

Thx

Ironwood · 10/19/2017, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outssider

If you have many fish and feed them well, I doubt low nutrients are your problem even if their showing up as .....0....

I have 16 fish and I think that I over feed which it surprises me that my po4 and po3 come out to 0

Ironwood · 10/19/2017, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jda

If you are driving your N and P toward zero with GFO, Organic Carbon or Lanthanum Chloride, then stop. If they are there naturally, then you are OK - be assured that you have some. If you were/are driving them too low, this is usually a dull-color thing and not death.

Do you tinker with your lights?

If you run your well water through RO/DI and the DI is not exhausted, then you are probably OK. Get a Triton or other ICP test if you want to be sure.

I use to run Gfo but stopped bout 8 weeks ago. I make sure my DI is not exhausted when I make water. I am thinking of getting a test done at triton and considering going down the triton path. Thanks

awais98 · 10/23/2017, 06:45 AM

How does your sps die? It may help point us in the right direction

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

awais98 · 10/23/2017, 06:47 AM

How old is you tank?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ironwood · 10/23/2017, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awais98

How does your sps die? It may help point us in the right direction

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Usually my sps dies from bleaching and then algae seems to take over. For example my last red montipora started get lighter in color so I thought is
T was too much light so I lowered it in the tank. It never seemed to get any better and eventually jus t had algae all over it.

Ironwood · 10/23/2017, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awais98

How old is you tank?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have have a reef tank for three years although last December I upgraded to a 150 from a 72 but used the same rock and sump.

awais98 · 10/23/2017, 08:46 PM

What substrate are you using?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

awais98 · 10/23/2017, 08:47 PM

Again what is your phos?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ssteve · 10/23/2017, 09:41 PM

Get a Hanna alk checked and check twice a day. Make sure your alk is rock solid and you should be fine. Almost all issues with keeping sps revolve around alk swings. I expect to keep my alk stable to the tenth and if I get more than two to three tenths swing in 24hrs then I know something is off. Much more than that and things will start to suffer, once you start seeing a full point swing you'll start to lose stuff.

Ironwood · 10/25/2017, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awais98

What substrate are you using?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Caribbean ocean direct

Ironwood · 10/25/2017, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awais98

Again what is your phos?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’m not sure. I got rid of my Hanna checker because it always read 0

Ironwood · 10/25/2017, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ssteve

Get a Hanna alk checked and check twice a day. Make sure your alk is rock solid and you should be fine. Almost all issues with keeping sps revolve around alk swings. I expect to keep my alk stable to the tenth and if I get more than two to three tenths swing in 24hrs then I know something is off. Much more than that and things will start to suffer, once you start seeing a full point swing you'll start to lose stuff.

Thanks

10/17/2017, 06:27 AM	#1
Ironwood Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 84	SPS and I don't get along I have been trying to keep SPS for a couple of years now and for some reason just can't keep it alive. My parameters have been stable for a long time. I'm able to keep softies, clam, Anemone without a problem. My parameters are PH 8.1, Alk 8-9, Cal 400, Mag 1400, Nitrate 0. I use red sea coral pro salt Last Jan I updated my lighting to Radion pro's from reef breeders and still can't keep SPS. I'm starting to wonder if my well water has something in it that is causing the problem. I use an rodi system the results in o tds at the output but still wonder if I'm missing something. My powerheads are two Maxspec 230's flow seems good. My tank size is 150gal with a 40gal sump. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

10/17/2017, 01:48 PM	#9
murphreef Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: simi valley Posts: 3,208	How do your SPS end up dying? RTN, STN, bleaching ?? How they die will tell a lot on what might be happening. I would strongly suggest changing up salt brands. Sometimes certain salts just have something off in them even if you measure everything something might be off. I would suggest trying Tropic Marin Pro and do some large 10-20% water changes a few days apart until you have done approximately 100% in WC. Everytime I see issues in my tank a decent WC always seems to help. __________________ Justin Current Tank Info: 25G cube (finally back in the hobby in a small way)

10/23/2017, 06:45 AM	#16
awais98 SPS Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 897	How does your sps die? It may help point us in the right direction Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ Awais Current Tank Info: 240DT SPS DOMINANT

10/23/2017, 06:47 AM	#17
awais98 SPS Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 897	How old is you tank? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ Awais Current Tank Info: 240DT SPS DOMINANT

10/23/2017, 08:46 PM	#20
awais98 SPS Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 897	What substrate are you using? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ Awais Current Tank Info: 240DT SPS DOMINANT

10/17/2017, 06:32 AM	#2
Gweeds Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 178	Could be chemical warfare from the softies potentially... you mention alk of 8-9... how often does that fluctuate? If that's over a month that'd be fine, if it's over 24 hours would be too much of a swing for most SPS to deal with. Also, nitrates are on the low side, if it's truly zero then I would think softies in particular would be struggling... I'm guessing it's either a dodgy test or they're being used as they're produced. You might want to try upping nitrates a little. Also, what's your po4 reading? If this is on the high side, nems and softies will be fine but it can interfere with calcification... Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

10/17/2017, 03:53 PM	#11
outssider Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Reseda, Ca. Posts: 1,717	If you have many fish and feed them well, I doubt low nutrients are your problem even if their showing up as .....0....

10/18/2017, 08:14 PM	#12
jda Dogmatic Dinosaur Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 6,256	If you are driving your N and P toward zero with GFO, Organic Carbon or Lanthanum Chloride, then stop. If they are there naturally, then you are OK - be assured that you have some. If you were/are driving them too low, this is usually a dull-color thing and not death. Do you tinker with your lights? If you run your well water through RO/DI and the DI is not exhausted, then you are probably OK. Get a Triton or other ICP test if you want to be sure.

10/23/2017, 08:47 PM	#21
awais98 SPS Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 897	Again what is your phos? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ Awais Current Tank Info: 240DT SPS DOMINANT

10/23/2017, 09:41 PM	#22
Ssteve Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 2,087	Get a Hanna alk checked and check twice a day. Make sure your alk is rock solid and you should be fine. Almost all issues with keeping sps revolve around alk swings. I expect to keep my alk stable to the tenth and if I get more than two to three tenths swing in 24hrs then I know something is off. Much more than that and things will start to suffer, once you start seeing a full point swing you'll start to lose stuff.