Ich in 2019

[ClownReef®]

Hello all,

I wanted to open up the conversation if why there haven't been more studies on ich since the '90s? I truly believe is the #1 cause for death in fish. Why isn't there a vaccine or a cure that doesn't involve the tedious work and incredibly frustrating process of TTM and dosing and measuring copper?

Yes, QT everything, but a lot of people don't have the room to keep a constant QT tank set up. I know I don't. I have QTd before and then ich pops out of nowhere.

Would RC crowd fund biologist and scientists to come up with a solution for these times? I know id pitch in. Most help comes from the "In my experience", "fallow for 8 weeks", "no 9 weeks", "No, 12 weeks", etc peeps.. The world of ich solutions is full of BS.

A protozoa is basically an animal, a living thing, a parasite and it can be killed..

Id love to hear your feedback.

[ClownReef®]

These are a list of medications that kill protozoans:

Daraprim (pyrimethamine)
Diloxanide
Fasigyn (tinidazole)
Flagyl tablets (metronidazole)
Mepacrine
Metronidazole tablets and suspension
Norzol suspension (metronidazole)
Pentacarinat injection
Pentostam (sodium stibogluconate)
Wellvone (atovaquone)

Is it crazy to think there could be a pellet or a frozen food that the fish could eat to treat ich?

[ClownReef®]

This article is 10 years old..

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...1202122052.htm

[wrott]

http://www.drgsmarineaquaculture.com

[ClownReef®]

“Cured!”

Whats the science behind it?

[wrott]

You asked,"Is it crazy to think there could be a pellet or a frozen food that the fish could eat to treat ich?"
Look at Dr Gs medicated food. Premium Aquatics sells it.

[ClownReef®]

Originally Posted by wrott

You asked,"Is it crazy to think there could be a pellet or a frozen food that the fish could eat to treat ich?"
Look at Dr Gs medicated food. Premium Aquatics sells it.

Looks like dosing is a guess

[HumbleFish]

Since most fish can handle Ich via their natural immune system, the more dangerous parasites are Velvet, Brook & Uronema IMO & E.

And there are more recent studies on these if you search Google Scholar. For example, here's one from 2007 where they used Hydrogen Peroxide to treat Velvet: https://www.researchgate.net/publica...tylus_sexfilis

If you're wanting more recent info about Ich, check out this: https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...44848617315892

[ClownReef®]

Thanks Humble! We can land a Rover on Mars but we can’t make the battle towards those parasites easier..

[HumbleFish]

Originally Posted by ClownReef®

Thanks Humble! We can land a Rover on Mars but we can’t make the battle towards those parasites easier..

I'm still experimenting, but I'm hoping this might be a game changer: https://humble.fish/hydrogen-peroxide/

A 30 min, 75 ppm bath has already been proven to remove Velvet trophonts right on the fish. I am currently experimenting with a 30 min, 150 ppm bath to see how effective that is against Velvet, Brook, Uronema and worms.

[Uncle99]

Healthy well fed fish living in a stable reef system with low stress defeats ick!

No drugs required!

[ali1]

Originally Posted by uncle99

healthy well fed fish living in a stable reef system with low stress defeats ick!

No drugs required!

bs

[ali1]

Originally Posted by ClownReef®

Hello all,

I wanted to open up the conversation if why there haven't been more studies on ich since the '90s? I truly believe is the #1 cause for death in fish. Why isn't there a vaccine or a cure that doesn't involve the tedious work and incredibly frustrating process of TTM and dosing and measuring copper?

Yes, QT everything, but a lot of people don't have the room to keep a constant QT tank set up. I know I don't. I have QTd before and then ich pops out of nowhere.

Would RC crowd fund biologist and scientists to come up with a solution for these times? I know id pitch in. Most help comes from the "In my experience", "fallow for 8 weeks", "no 9 weeks", "No, 12 weeks", etc peeps.. The world of ich solutions is full of BS.

A protozoa is basically an animal, a living thing, a parasite and it can be killed..

Id love to hear your feedback.

I agree. I been checking forums regularly for vaccine/cure over 15years. Not much progress.

[Uncle99]

Originally Posted by ali1

bs

That’s both rude and bad advice.
The approach is quite basic.

Probably why you “are totally frustrated with this disease”

Feeding a variety of foods including clam meat and ensuring minimal stress environment , goes along way in ensuring this parasites does not take hold.

Same reasons people build their immunity, guarantee, nope, necessary, well that depends on what success you want.

[Reef noob_]

Agreed. I've "beaten" ich many times by providing proper nutrition and water quality with almost zero losses. I wouldn't really be interested in an ich "cure".

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[ali1]

Originally Posted by Uncle99

That’s both rude and bad advice.
The approach is quite basic.

Probably why you “are totally frustrated with this disease”

Feeding a variety of foods including clam meat and ensuring minimal stress environment , goes along way in ensuring this parasites does not take hold.

Same reasons people build their immunity, guarantee, nope, necessary, well that depends on what success you want.

That wasn't advice. Simply calling BS on your advice. Your input is just general husbandry for overall tank specimens.

Im not ' totally frustrated with this disease '. If you read the signature again, it's a quote from another RC member.

three proven methods are copper, hypo, and TTM. TTM being the least stressful.

[hkgar]

Originally Posted by ClownReef®

Thanks Humble! We can land a Rover on Mars but we can’t make the battle towards those parasites easier..

Just like we can't cure the common cold. Everything that mother nature has created has a strong desire to do what it takes to survive so we are always battling the common cold, flu and...Ick. And with the right conditions the common cold and the flu kill us poor humans who can't battle it effectively.

He, it may be trite but.. Only the strong survive.

[2000se]

H202 eh.. seems this stuff has uses every where!

This is great research humble!

[HumbleFish]

I'll just say not all fish are equal when managing Ich. It's more difficult to do with an Achilles or other Acanthurus Tang.

[bnumair]

pure chloroquine phosphate is a pretty guaranteed cure for ich.
I have never had a fish carry ich after treatment atleast since i have been practicing CP for last 5 yrs or so.

[nereefpat]

There are proven ways to kill marine ich....hypo, copper, chloroquine, TTM.
The problem is that the cures can't be administered in a reef tank.

Seems like I read something about "vaccine" (ich isn't a virus, so this isn't the right wording) for ich. One problem is that the cost of a vaccine wouldn't make sense economically, since the cost of a fish is relatively low.

[ClownReef®]

Originally Posted by nereefpat

There are proven ways to kill marine ich....hypo, copper, chloroquine, TTM.
The problem is that the cures can't be administered in a reef tank.

Seems like I read something about "vaccine" (ich isn't a virus, so this isn't the right wording) for ich. One problem is that the cost of a vaccine wouldn't make sense economically, since the cost of a fish is relatively low.

I disagree. Imagine the hundreds of thousands of dollars on dead fish that could be saved.

The discrepancies about how long to leave a tank fallow, the levels of copper, how many hours in between TTM are too many. UV works, but it doesn't, but then it does.. Its just too much.

This is a parasite. A living thing that can be killed with proper levels of medication. A pellet with meds should do the trick.

[HumbleFish]

Originally Posted by ClownReef®

This is a parasite. A living thing that can be killed with proper levels of medication. A pellet with meds should do the trick.

It can be killed by chemicals/osmotic shock which is not safe to administer in the presence of corals/inverts. That's the whole problem.

Feeding the fish medicine has never been proven effective because it is an external parasite which lives most of it's life cycle off fish. So, if the tank is infected the fish will just continue to get reinfected. When you dose copper or use hypo in a QT it provides no direct benefit to the fish... you are treating the tank, not the fish. The presence of copper/hypo simply prevents the fish from being reinfected after the first wave of parasites have dropped off.

[nereefpat]

Originally Posted by ClownReef®

I disagree. Imagine the hundreds of thousands of dollars on dead fish that could be saved.

You would have to "vaccinate" every fish. How much would a "vaccine" cost? How much does a yellow tang cost?

[ThRoewer]

Originally Posted by Uncle99

Healthy well fed fish living in a stable reef system with low stress defeats ick!

No drugs required!

Precisely!
I had tanks in which the fish were all healthy and happy despite the fact that Cryptocaryon was present. The immune system of the fish was well capable of keeping the parasite at bay and without new additions for about a year it actually died out.
Most people who constantly struggle with ick in their display tanks have too many or incompatible fish who stress each other. And stress weakens the immune system which then gives the parasite an opening.
Even if there is an outbreak, Cryptocaryon usually gives you plenty of time to react and cleaning fish of it is pretty easy with TTM, hyposalinity, even copper.
A good quarantine is still needed, not just for ick but more importantly against the truly dangerous parasites that might not give you enough time to react, are far more difficult to treat, or which can't be purged from a system without completely sterilizing it.

As for no research done on Cryptocaryon - I bet there is still plenty going on since it is far more problematic in commercial fish farms where is isn't really possible to keep the fish stress free.

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