Do I want to go aggressive?

BFro · 04/06/2011, 10:01 AM

A little background first: I've recently gotten back into the aquarium hobby after a decent absence. I'm currently running a 55gallon housing a decent amount of cichlids and one gar. When I got the tank a while back i wanted to jump back in head first and make it saltwater. But after talking with some fish friends and the lady, I was talked into going freshwater. I did at least go witht the cichlids to get something halfway cool in there. Well, now that my lady is seeing how awesome the fish are (and many trips to the LFS to hype them), I've been greenlit on getting a salt tank going. Now to my questions:

My stand at home will accomedate up to a 75gallon tank, but I'm not opposed to going with something bigger and just building a new stand. However, due to the restrictions at the house, I don't know if I can go much larger than a 125gallon. The fish the is peaking my interest the most is the Volitan Lionfish. I've wanted one of those ever since I was little. Now, some people say that these fish keep just fine with triggers, other say the opposite. Now, are there certain triggers that would be okay to house next to a lion, like say a Humu Humu? My lady really wants a puffer, so how do those fair with lions and/or triggers? Or what about a shark? Are there any kinds of dwarf sharks?

As far a filtration goes, I was looking for some weigh-ins on the canister vs sump choice. Obviously the sump is ideal, but also much more expensive. I would rather sink the money into a bigger tank or nice fish. BUT, if the sump is going to be a much better option, or someone knows some thrifty ways to go about building one or something, I'm all ears. And it would be nice to house the heater, skimmer, and everything else down in the sump. But this is mostly a cost debate here.

OR, maybe we'll just forget the aggressives and do a nice salty community tank. I don't know. The aquarium market is sooo much different than it was 10yrs ago. And there's so many different kinds of fish that weren't around before. So I guess this post is pretty open to opinions and options. I'd like to get a tank based on the type/variety of fish I want, not so much settle on fish because I got a tank that doesn't fit.

Thanks in advance. Hope for some good responses. This seems like a pretty knowledgable forum.

rubensito · 04/06/2011, 10:21 AM

shark is not going to work in a tank that size longterm, but I would probably not add triggers with lions if it were my tank, due to the destruction their mouths will have on the delicate finnage of the lions

namxas · 04/06/2011, 10:58 AM

WELCOME!

I can answer most of your questions regarding lionfish and their setup.

A 55 gal is a bit tight for either of the large-bodied lions you typically find in the hobby. However, you could keep a medium-bodied Pterois species or multple Dendrochirus (dwarf) sp. with no issues.

If you're thinking of "upsizing", and want to keep a volitans, I recommend getting at a 4' 100 gal (they also make 120's and i THINK 150's in 48" lengths). What this will do for you is provide plenty of front-to-back room for aquascaping and turnaround space (a full-grown volitans wil max out at 12"-15" or so).

I strongly recommend a sump, and they're easily made with an aquarium (a 30L would be a great "base" for it) and a couple of pieces of 1/4" acrylic for the baffles. I really hate anything but fish, decor, and water in my setups, so I run sumps whenever I can.

I'd rule out any non-planktonic-feeding triggers. Even then, you'd need to get a larger tank, altho if you "upsize", you could keep a bluejaw with no issues. Check out the sticky thread in this forum about triggers and lions. Puffers aren't really good tankmates for lions either for the same reasons. If you keep dwarf lions, you could try a Canthagaster sp. puffer (toby) if you have a "Plan B", but that's a crap shoot.

As for other tankmates, try to avoid "fast-movers"/"pacers", as these types of fish tend to make lions more reclusive. IME, if they have enuff room and the proper tankmates, most lionfish (esp. the volitans) will spend more time out an about than perching.

HTH

BFro · 04/06/2011, 01:55 PM

Thanks for the couple quick replies. I know how threads get buried in these forums. Now,on the topic of tankmates for a lion, how much other more peaceful species work? Like say, butterflies or tangs? I really like, and really want a lion, but if its going to make the tank super limited as far as variety, maybe I should go non-aggressive altogether...

The tank will be 75+ gallons.

Maybe someone should just PM me so I can get some specific info here.

Playerdrm · 04/06/2011, 04:07 PM

Well since you said you could go 125g and are wanting tangs I would definately shoot for that for the extra length. Also a 180 is still only 6 ft but will give you extra width at 72x24x24 vs the 72x18x22 of a 125g

namxas · 04/06/2011, 04:35 PM

Lions are super peaceful fish, and are actually more often the victims of bullying than bullies themselves.

Large angels, puffers, and non-planktonic-feeding triggers don't make good tankmates for lions. Ornamental shrimp and non-hermit crabs will eventually become food. Other than that, as long as the tankmate in question can't be swallowed, you're pretty much good to go. In fact some of the smaller lions (such as the fuzzy and the barberi) actually have fairly small mouths.

One final caveat IMHO are fast movers in a smaller setup. While these fish generally have no issues with lions, if the tank is so small that they constantly pace back and forth, the lion will often tend to "perch" more just to be out of the way of the "commotion", and is probably why many folks think they're boring.

I believe we're currently keeping 7 different lionfish species (I always lose count of our fish) ranging from dwarf, medium, large and even a temperate species, the bluefin/blackfoot (Parapterois heterura).

One of my fave tanks is a std 60 gal "small scorp" setup that houses:

fuzzy dwarf lion (male)
D. barberi lion (female)
Red-fin waspfish (male)
cockatoo waspfish
cheekspot scorpionfish
reef scorpionfish
M-F-F trio of blotched anthias

The system is sump-based with a large skimmer. Decor is lots of LR and live macroalgae and about 1.5" of #3 aragonite sand.

04/06/2011, 10:01 AM	#1
BFro Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 8	Do I want to go aggressive? A little background first: I've recently gotten back into the aquarium hobby after a decent absence. I'm currently running a 55gallon housing a decent amount of cichlids and one gar. When I got the tank a while back i wanted to jump back in head first and make it saltwater. But after talking with some fish friends and the lady, I was talked into going freshwater. I did at least go witht the cichlids to get something halfway cool in there. Well, now that my lady is seeing how awesome the fish are (and many trips to the LFS to hype them), I've been greenlit on getting a salt tank going. Now to my questions: My stand at home will accomedate up to a 75gallon tank, but I'm not opposed to going with something bigger and just building a new stand. However, due to the restrictions at the house, I don't know if I can go much larger than a 125gallon. The fish the is peaking my interest the most is the Volitan Lionfish. I've wanted one of those ever since I was little. Now, some people say that these fish keep just fine with triggers, other say the opposite. Now, are there certain triggers that would be okay to house next to a lion, like say a Humu Humu? My lady really wants a puffer, so how do those fair with lions and/or triggers? Or what about a shark? Are there any kinds of dwarf sharks? As far a filtration goes, I was looking for some weigh-ins on the canister vs sump choice. Obviously the sump is ideal, but also much more expensive. I would rather sink the money into a bigger tank or nice fish. BUT, if the sump is going to be a much better option, or someone knows some thrifty ways to go about building one or something, I'm all ears. And it would be nice to house the heater, skimmer, and everything else down in the sump. But this is mostly a cost debate here. OR, maybe we'll just forget the aggressives and do a nice salty community tank. I don't know. The aquarium market is sooo much different than it was 10yrs ago. And there's so many different kinds of fish that weren't around before. So I guess this post is pretty open to opinions and options. I'd like to get a tank based on the type/variety of fish I want, not so much settle on fish because I got a tank that doesn't fit. Thanks in advance. Hope for some good responses. This seems like a pretty knowledgable forum.

04/06/2011, 04:07 PM	#5
Playerdrm Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Wichita, KS Posts: 135	Well since you said you could go 125g and are wanting tangs I would definately shoot for that for the extra length. Also a 180 is still only 6 ft but will give you extra width at 72x24x24 vs the 72x18x22 of a 125g __________________ Reef Tanks: 29g, 55g, 58g FOWLR Tanks: 240g, 125g (In Progress)

04/06/2011, 04:35 PM	#6
namxas Things With Stings R Us! Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Carson, CA Posts: 5,087	Lions are super peaceful fish, and are actually more often the victims of bullying than bullies themselves. Large angels, puffers, and non-planktonic-feeding triggers don't make good tankmates for lions. Ornamental shrimp and non-hermit crabs will eventually become food. Other than that, as long as the tankmate in question can't be swallowed, you're pretty much good to go. In fact some of the smaller lions (such as the fuzzy and the barberi) actually have fairly small mouths. One final caveat IMHO are fast movers in a smaller setup. While these fish generally have no issues with lions, if the tank is so small that they constantly pace back and forth, the lion will often tend to "perch" more just to be out of the way of the "commotion", and is probably why many folks think they're boring. I believe we're currently keeping 7 different lionfish species (I always lose count of our fish) ranging from dwarf, medium, large and even a temperate species, the bluefin/blackfoot (Parapterois heterura). One of my fave tanks is a std 60 gal "small scorp" setup that houses: fuzzy dwarf lion (male) D. barberi lion (female) Red-fin waspfish (male) cockatoo waspfish cheekspot scorpionfish reef scorpionfish M-F-F trio of blotched anthias The system is sump-based with a large skimmer. Decor is lots of LR and live macroalgae and about 1.5" of #3 aragonite sand. __________________ Greg Current Tank Info: too many to describe, but i think the count is up to "lucky 13"!

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04/06/2011, 10:21 AM	#2
rubensito Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 219	shark is not going to work in a tank that size longterm, but I would probably not add triggers with lions if it were my tank, due to the destruction their mouths will have on the delicate finnage of the lions

04/06/2011, 10:58 AM	#3
namxas Things With Stings R Us! Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Carson, CA Posts: 5,087	WELCOME! I can answer most of your questions regarding lionfish and their setup. A 55 gal is a bit tight for either of the large-bodied lions you typically find in the hobby. However, you could keep a medium-bodied Pterois species or multple Dendrochirus (dwarf) sp. with no issues. If you're thinking of "upsizing", and want to keep a volitans, I recommend getting at a 4' 100 gal (they also make 120's and i THINK 150's in 48" lengths). What this will do for you is provide plenty of front-to-back room for aquascaping and turnaround space (a full-grown volitans wil max out at 12"-15" or so). I strongly recommend a sump, and they're easily made with an aquarium (a 30L would be a great "base" for it) and a couple of pieces of 1/4" acrylic for the baffles. I really hate anything but fish, decor, and water in my setups, so I run sumps whenever I can. I'd rule out any non-planktonic-feeding triggers. Even then, you'd need to get a larger tank, altho if you "upsize", you could keep a bluejaw with no issues. Check out the sticky thread in this forum about triggers and lions. Puffers aren't really good tankmates for lions either for the same reasons. If you keep dwarf lions, you could try a Canthagaster sp. puffer (toby) if you have a "Plan B", but that's a crap shoot. As for other tankmates, try to avoid "fast-movers"/"pacers", as these types of fish tend to make lions more reclusive. IME, if they have enuff room and the proper tankmates, most lionfish (esp. the volitans) will spend more time out an about than perching. HTH __________________ Greg Current Tank Info: too many to describe, but i think the count is up to "lucky 13"!

04/06/2011, 01:55 PM	#4
BFro Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 8	Thanks for the couple quick replies. I know how threads get buried in these forums. Now,on the topic of tankmates for a lion, how much other more peaceful species work? Like say, butterflies or tangs? I really like, and really want a lion, but if its going to make the tank super limited as far as variety, maybe I should go non-aggressive altogether... The tank will be 75+ gallons. Maybe someone should just PM me so I can get some specific info here.