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Old 06/15/2017, 08:30 PM   #1
ReefKeeper64
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Ozone generator advice needed

I'm looking to invest in an ozone generator and a rector with a means to pull out all excess ozone from and air and water via carbon. Any advice on equipment and process appreciated.


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Old 06/15/2017, 09:44 PM   #2
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I'm looking to invest in an ozone generator and a rector with a means to pull out all excess ozone from and air and water via carbon. Any advice on equipment and process appreciated.
I would suggest an Ozotech Generator. Avast makes some nice ozone reactors. I would suggest a second reactor filled with lignite carbon to remove excess ozone. I'd also suggest an air dryer ahead of the ozone generator to remove humidity from the air going through the generator. They have bead based dryers but those require the beads be regenerated fairly frequently. An electronic dryer is more expensive but maintenance free. You will also want a controller with an ORP probe.


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Old 06/15/2017, 10:22 PM   #3
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Hey Slief, thanks for your help with this. I like your suggestions, especially the point about the bead based dryers. Do you run one in your system nowadays?


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Old 06/15/2017, 10:57 PM   #4
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It looks like Avast discontinued their ozone reactor in 2016. Any other recommendations for a good reactor and maybe even a good dryer?

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2583775


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Old 06/16/2017, 07:52 AM   #5
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Did know Avast discontinued their reactor. That is what I used here. I had a bead dryer from a red sea ozone generator that I used but I had to recharge the beads regularly. I have since stopped running ozone and would only use it if I felt I needed to. My ORP hovers around 400 without ozone but my UV sterilzer raises my ORP by nearly 100 points.

I think BRS has some bead dryers that are based on their reactors. You may want to contact them. As for an ozone reactor, check out the Reef Octopus/Coralvue one.


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Old 06/16/2017, 11:28 AM   #6
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Geo's Reef makes a nice ozone reactor.


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Old 06/16/2017, 12:36 PM   #7
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Geo's Reef makes a nice ozone reactor.
LOL.. Now that you mention it, I'm not even sure why I said Avast. I have a Geo ozone reactor along with my Geo Calcium reactor. I guess I wasn't thinking last night when I posted that.


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Old 06/16/2017, 12:49 PM   #8
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;-) I have the Avast Mutiny III model with post carbon reactor! Saved a few bucks, but Geo's is very nice.


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Old 06/16/2017, 03:50 PM   #9
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Does anyone know anything about the Ultrazone bulb style ozone and UV sterilizers? Marinedepot, premiumAquatics, and aquacave all sell these. The pro version looks tight because the UV sterilizer can stay on even when the ORP senses a need to turn off the ozone generator.

The ultralifedirect link has the most detailed info about their ozone generator and UV sterilizer PRO version.

https://ultralifedirect.com/product/...terilizer-pro/

https://premiumaquatics.com/products...generator.html

http://www.aquacave.com/aquarium-ozo...enerators.html

https://www.marinedepot.com/uv_ultra...ni_360-ap.html



On paper this bulb based ozone generator would seem to a superior solution to corona based ozone generators but they aren't all that popular and I don't understand why. I can't honestly say that corona based ozone generators are all that popular either to be honest. Perhaps people just don't understand them? Or is there something else that I'm missing?

Dryer - doesn't need one.

Reactor - doesn't need one.

Carbon - doesn't need any.

Price - less than an ozotech generator, a dryer, and a reactor at $339 for the PRO model.

Again, on paper the bulb style ozone generator seems like a better fit for aquarium use. What am I missing here?




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Old 06/16/2017, 03:53 PM   #10
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Did know Avast discontinued their reactor. That is what I used here. I had a bead dryer from a red sea ozone generator that I used but I had to recharge the beads regularly. I have since stopped running ozone and would only use it if I felt I needed to. My ORP hovers around 400 without ozone but my UV sterilzer raises my ORP by nearly 100 points.

I think BRS has some bead dryers that are based on their reactors. You may want to contact them. As for an ozone reactor, check out the Reef Octopus/Coralvue one.
Hey Slief, That's interesting that your UV raises your ORP. I wasn't aware of that benefit. So in a sense, UV sterilization is doing some of the same work that an ozone generator does I guess. Thanks!


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Old 06/16/2017, 03:58 PM   #11
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Geo's Reef makes a nice ozone reactor.
Thanks FirstContact. The Geo reactor looks tight. The total cost for this $400 geo reactor, a $200 ozotech generator, and a $400 dryer gives me a bit of sticker shock though. You too?


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Old 06/16/2017, 04:01 PM   #12
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One comment that I have read a few times in forums is that the ozone that discharges into the water breaks down to harmless levels almost instantly. Its the ozone that is released into the air that needs to run through a carbon filter. Would anyone be able to confirm this?

Not all that sure how much of an issue getting every last bit of this ozone is really. When I look online, I see many companies selling in home ozone generators that are spraying ozone into the home intentionally in order to reduce or eliminate cigarette smoke and other odors.


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Old 06/16/2017, 05:19 PM   #13
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Thanks FirstContact. The Geo reactor looks tight. The total cost for this $400 geo reactor, a $200 ozotech generator, and a $400 dryer gives me a bit of sticker shock though. You too?
Yeah, I had to spread my purchases out, but I went with the BRS silica air dryer. Swap one cartridge out every week.

As far as effluent goes, ozone does break down pretty quick, but the carbon is also there for nasty byproducts that the ozone process creates. You have to have carbon for both water and air effluent. If you use the Geo reactor, the water and air both pass through the reactor.

Ozone isn't cheap to set up, but I only change 3 cups of carbon in the reactor once every 3-4 months. Also, my water is always crystal clear.

You also need an air pump and there aren't too many viable choices on the market. The air pumps tend to break down fast. Not sure how a vacuum air pump set up works with the electronic air dryers.

The good thing though is once you own the equipment it runs great, does it's job, and doesn't cost anything really to run.


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Current Tank Info: 120g Reef 100g Rubbermaid Sump, 20g Refugium; previous tank: 46g Drilled; Self Plumbed, Birds Nest, Anchor, Xenia, Zoas, Yuma Yuma Ricordea, Chalice, Mushrooms, Brain, Acan, Anenome Plate; Clams, Other Inverts, Fish, Live Rock

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Old 06/16/2017, 05:38 PM   #14
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Hey Slief, That's interesting that your UV raises your ORP. I wasn't aware of that benefit. So in a sense, UV sterilization is doing some of the same work that an ozone generator does I guess. Thanks!
UV oxidizes organic compounds and by reducing organic compounds water quality is improved. It also removes water born algae and bacteria. Ozone is an oxidizer too with the difference being that ozone uses a gas in direct contact with the water to oxidize organics and sterilize the water where as a UV Sterilzer uses the light spectrum to oxidize organics and sterilize the water. They have very similar results. That said, a crappy, improperly size and improperly setup UV is a waste of money. If you are going to go that route, you get a quality one and set it up right.

When my UV bulbs died on my 114 watt AquaUV, my ORP tanked. I normally change my bulbs every year but this time I had gone about 1.5 years. When my ORP tanked, I started investigating and realized my bulbs had died. I got a pair of new bulbs and my ORP skyrocketed over the course of 10 days. I feed my tank very heavily and have around 70 fish in the system. There are a lot of organics going into my tank which can have a big impact on water quality so for me, ORP has a surprisingly big impact on my tanks water quality over and above it's clarity.

This is part of my ORP graph immediately after replacing my bulbs in April. The ORP went from 275 up to 400 over the course of 10 days. This shows a weeks of graphs. I am a firm believer in the benefits of UV having a properly setup quality UV unit and this is just one of the reasons.



This is a screen shot of my ORP today. No ozone. Just my UV sterilzer. This ORP probe is about 4 onths old and is consistent with the ORP probe on my Profilux as well. I have both an Apex and a Profilux for monitoring and control. I have confidence in the accuracy of my ORP.



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Old 06/16/2017, 06:03 PM   #15
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Yeah, I had to spread my purchases out, but I went with the BRS silica air dryer. Swap one cartridge out every week.

As far as effluent goes, ozone does break down pretty quick, but the carbon is also there for nasty byproducts that the ozone process creates. You have to have carbon for both water and air effluent. If you use the Geo reactor, the water and air both pass through the reactor.

Ozone isn't cheap to set up, but I only change 3 cups of carbon in the reactor once every 3-4 months. Also, my water is always crystal clear.

You also need an air pump and there aren't too many viable choices on the market. The air pumps tend to break down fast. Not sure how a vacuum air pump set up works with the electronic air dryers.

The good thing though is once you own the equipment it runs great, does it's job, and doesn't cost anything really to run.
This is really good info to know so thanks for the details.


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Old 06/16/2017, 06:07 PM   #16
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Thanks slief for all the screen shots. I can see that your UV sterilizer is definitely having a positive and predictable impact on ORP. I will have to make sure I include one in my build.


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Old 07/17/2017, 02:27 PM   #17
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Does anyone know anything about the Ultrazone bulb style ozone and UV sterilizers? Marinedepot, premiumAquatics, and aquacave all sell these. The pro version looks tight because the UV sterilizer can stay on even when the ORP senses a need to turn off the ozone generator.

The ultralifedirect link has the most detailed info about their ozone generator and UV sterilizer PRO version.

https://ultralifedirect.com/product/...terilizer-pro/

https://premiumaquatics.com/products...generator.html



http://www.aquacave.com/aquarium-ozo...enerators.html

https://www.marinedepot.com/uv_ultra...ni_360-ap.html

On paper this bulb based ozone generator would seem to a superior solution to corona based ozone generators but they aren't all that popular and I don't understand why. I can't honestly say that corona based ozone generators are all that popular either to be honest. Perhaps people just don't understand them? Or is there something else that I'm missing?

Dryer - doesn't need one.

Reactor - doesn't need one.

Carbon - doesn't need any.

Price - less than an ozotech generator, a dryer, and a reactor at $339 for the PRO model.

Again, on paper the bulb style ozone generator seems like a better fit for aquarium use. What am I missing here?

No one has responded to this line of inquiry. I have the same questions.

Reefkeeper64 -- did you get one of the PRO models? Seems to me like a great deal on combo UV/Ozone.


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Old 07/17/2017, 05:35 PM   #18
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I'm planning to order the pro by Thursday. I called a reseller today and asked them to email a copy of the manual so that I can read up more about it. I also want to make sure that the pro has 2 plugs. It should. One for the ozone generator and another for the UV sterilizer. They will both be running on a ghl P4 controller with an orp probe. If orp goes above 350, the ozone will cut off but UV will continue. The powerbar socket for the ozone will also be programmed to run for a max number of hours a day anyway as a safety precaution. Air will be exhausted outside so no exhausted carbon worries there. Water will get a regular change out of carbon. I price point is solid at $299 from some shops and I like the way these do not require a dryer by design.

I know these are old school but my main reason for getting both ozone and UV is because so many pros (in my book anyway) use one or both of them. glennf, O2manyfish, Paul B, Slief, Reefkeeper2, David Saxby, to name just a few. They all have fewer disease issues. If a fish makes it into one of their tanks with a case of ich, it is controllable and doesn't wipe out or decimate the entire tank and its inhabitants. The have clearer water, and a bunch of other anecdotal reasons why they stay with one or both. I will humor myself with this information and consider this old school approach a cheap form of fish insurance.



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Old 07/17/2017, 06:46 PM   #19
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In my opinion, you would be better off with a high quality UV sterilzer and a seperate ozone reactor of you insist on ozone. In my experience, ozone does absolutely nothing for disease control and UV will not prevent nor control ich. I speak from first hand experience as I had an ich outbreak back in 2010 that decimated my fish population despite having a high quality UV that was properly setup. A UV can help reduce the ich in the free floating stage but there will always be a majority of the parasite that winds up in the substrate or attaches to a host long before it makes it way into the UV. Plus, if you are intending on using UV for parasite control, running it off the return pump via a manifold is a waste since much of the water will go through the return loop. Then there is contact time. If you run all the return water through the UV, that flow rate is a concern. That said, running it from a closed loop where the water is taken directly from the display and returned to the display (not via the sump) is the best way to setup a UV for that purpose. That or running it between two systems to prevent parasites from passing from system to system.

I've said it before and I will say it again. UV and Ozone do very similar things. Get a good UV and see what it does for your system. Then and only then, consider ozone if you really feel you need it. This to me isn't a great UV sterilzer. To me it's more of a gimmick. If it was so great, you can bet a lot of people would be using it.

I've been using UV and ozone for about 20 years experience with both UV and have found that ozone is rarely needed in our hobby and if you have a quality UV that is properly setup in terms of flow, the results can be on par with ozone.

If you want a UV and ozone combination, then get one from AquaUV as they have much better UV sterilzers and bulbs.
http://www.aquaultraviolet.com/produ...lizers/ozoneuv
Bare in mind that contact time is everything for ozone and UV but both have different flow requirements. You are talking about pushing 600-1000 gph through the UV and that kind of flow rate for ozone is a waste of time and not going to be effective in our systems. It's your money but I think you are wasting it should you go this route.


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Old 07/17/2017, 08:01 PM   #20
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This is good intel Slief, thanks. I wasn't aware that aquaultraviolet made these combo units. I trust your experience and will ditch the ultralife brand. I couldn't reach them directly and couldn't find any real documentation on them anyways. From what I am reading, aqua ultraviolet offers several combo units in various sizes. That's a plus.

Their 57 watt combo is rated for 355 gallons Saltwater. My setup is 160 gallons total water volume with the Refugium. That should be beefy enough I would think. Do you agree?

http://www.aquaultraviolet.com/produ...ozoneuv/57watt
And
http://www.aquauvstore.com/Ozone-Com...es-sc-206.html

I was thinking that I would tap off the main pump and route about 100gph (or some other low amount) and just return the treated water back to the sump. I make better use of the main pump, avoid needing another pump too. I may get a couple of valves to control the flow exactly the way I want it.



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Old 07/17/2017, 08:16 PM   #21
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This is good intel Slief, thanks. I wasn't aware that aquaultraviolet made these combo units. I trust your experience and will ditch the ultralife brand. I couldn't reach them directly and couldn't find any real documentation on them anyways. From what I am reading, aqua ultraviolet offers several combo units in various sizes. That's a plus.

Their 57 watt combo is rated for 355 gallons Saltwater. My setup is 160 gallons total water volume with the Refugium. That should be beefy enough I would think. Do you agree?

http://www.aquaultraviolet.com/produ...ozoneuv/57watt
And
http://www.aquauvstore.com/Ozone-Com...es-sc-206.html

I was thinking that I would tap off the main pump and route about 100gph (or some other low amount) and just return the treated water back to the sump. I make better use of the main pump, avoid needing another pump too. I may get a couple of valves to control the flow exactly the way I want it.

I think the 25 or the 40w at most would be plenty but the 57 is shorter which is nice. That said, as I said above, the flow requirements for UV in our systems vs maximizing the effects of ozone are completely different. I am not a fan of o3/UV combo units. As I said above, I think you would be better served keeping them separate if you really feel you need to run ozone. I also think ozone is a waste of time at this stage. UV will do almost EVERYTHING ozone will do for your system with much less complexity and much more upside.


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Old 07/17/2017, 08:29 PM   #22
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To your point, I don't think that I can turn off the ozone without also turning off the UV. That would kind of defeat the plan. Maybe I need to think more about an ozotech and keep them separate.


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Old 07/18/2017, 07:48 AM   #23
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Thx for the great discussion. Slief's notion that a lot more people would be using this tech if it worked as advertised is on point. Maybe there needs to be a test! �� I suppose it would entail running straight UV vs. UV/Ozone combo unit on very similar systems for a significant period of time. Even then it would be difficult to tell which unit works better without dosing some nasty stuff. Undersranding the physics of how UV and Ozone work may have to suffice. What are the flow requirements for each? I thought Ozone reacted so quickly that flow was inconsequential.


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Old 07/18/2017, 02:53 PM   #24
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I called aquaUV and spoke with their tech support. A few things I learned include:

Their UV/Ozone combo units do not require a dryer. They put out rated amounts of ozone with or without a dryer.

They produce ozone all the time when the UV sterilizer is on. If you wish to not use the ozone, it is recommended that you cap off the ozone inlet and outlet. No harm is done by doing so.

To control the amount of ozone entering an ozone reactor using a controller, you open or close the ozone tubing channel with an electric open/close actuator valve.

Still considering an ozotech but wanted to get those questions answered.


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Old 07/21/2017, 08:19 AM   #25
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I ordered the Ozotech Poseidon 200 this morning. The ozotech makes more sense in many ways. Slief, thanks for your suggestion to look into this option more closely.

1-very clear water,
2-fewer pathogens,
3-reduced skimmate odor,
4-improved oxygenation
5-Ammonia reduction

Safety:
- I'm routing all of air discharge outside the house using simple 1/2" silicone hose and 1/2" pvc pipe. Both materials are ozone safe. Simple silicone hose is rated very safe for ozone, which surprised me.
- Water discharge will run through carbon which will be changed out on a schedule.


http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...44860911000318
Abstract
The high levels of water-reuse in intensive recirculating aquaculture systems (RAS) require an effective water treatment in order to maintain good water quality. In order to reveal the potential and limitations of ozonation for water quality improvement in marine RAS, we tested ozone's ability to remove nitrite, ammonia, yellow substances and total bacterial biomass in seawater, considering aspects such as efficiency, pH-dependency as well as the formation of toxic ozone-produced oxidants (OPO). Our results demonstrate that ozone can be efficiently utilized to simultaneously remove nitrite and yellow substances from process water in RAS without risking the formation of toxic OPO concentrations. Contemporaneously, an effective reduction of bacterial biomass was achieved by ozonation in combination with foam fractionation. In contrast, ammonia is not oxidized by ozone so long as nitrite and yellow substances are present in the water, as the dominant reaction of the ozone-based ammonia-oxidation in seawater requires the previous formation of OPO as intermediates. The oxidation of ammonia in seawater by ozone is basically a bromide-catalyzed reaction with nitrogen gas as end product, enabling an almost complete removal of ammonia-nitrogen from the aquaculture system. Results further show that pH has no effect on the ozone-based ammonia oxidation in seawater. Unlike in freshwater, an effective removal of ammonia even at pH-values as low as 6.5 has been shown to be feasible in seawater. However, as the predominant reaction pathway involves an initial accumulation of OPO to toxic amounts, we consider the ozone-based removal of ammonia in marine RAS as risky for animal health and economically unviable.

Highlights

► The suitability of ozone for water quality improvement was evaluated by investigating the ozone-based removal of nitrite, ammonia, yellow substances and total bacterial biomass. ► Ozone can be efficiently utilized to simultaneously remove nitrite and yellow substances without risking the formation of toxic oxidant concentrations. ► An effective reduction of bacterial biomass was achieved by short-term ozonation in combination with foam fractionation. ► Ammonia oxidation in seawater by ozonation is independent from pH. ► Nitrogen gas is the primary end product during the ozone-based ammonia removal in seawater. ► Ammonia oxidation by ozonation in seawater presupposes an initial accumulation of ozone-produced oxidants to highly toxic amounts, restricting a safe application in aquaculture.



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