Cone skimmers ... an upgrade?

[thcmusic]

Would a move from an AquaC Ev180 (with Mag 7) to the newer SWC 160 Cone be a step up, down or sideways?

I have a 120 gallon FOWLR (maybe reef in future) with 30 gallon sump. I estimate ultimately a medium to heavily bio-load. The EV180 seems very turbulent and does not look like it is giving me as fine of bubbles as the newer cones would produce.

Also, am I to understand that an SWC 180 Cone is not desireable because of the pump utilized?

... or other (economical) suggestions of same price range (i.e. can't afford over $400) would be appreciated.

Thank you, Todd

[BlueStag]

Both the SWC 160 and 180 Cone would be a good upgrade and both would fit your system. The SWC 160 is a better value per dollar invested. The SWC 180 is a great skimmer, just costs a bit more. There is lots of great reading on the SWC 160 cone if you google it.

[thcmusic]

So the SWC 160 does not sound too small for my system?

[scubasteve06]

Go with the extreme cone 160. They use the atman pumps which are worlds ahead of the sicce's if you are going to 'upgrade' honestly I see it as a sideways move, unless you were to go with the 160 extreme cone with the atman pump.

[solitude127]

Originally Posted by scubasteve06

They use the atman pumps which are worlds ahead of the sicce's if you are going to 'upgrade'

Why do you believe that Atmans are "worlds" ahead of Sicces?

[stanlalee]

Originally Posted by thcmusic

So the SWC 160 does not sound too small for my system?

IMO it is. Perhaps because its FOWLR it may be okay. I dont see it as an upgrade on a 120 myself other than trading skimming power for efficiency.

[scubasteve06]

Originally Posted by solitude127

Why do you believe that Atmans are "worlds" ahead of Sicces?

They don't have the start up issues that the sicce's have, the motor blocks are better. I don't think I'm the only one who thinks that the Atman pumps are better than the sicce's. Do you have a SWC skimmer with a sicce pump?

[CMcNeil]

Originally Posted by solitude127

Why do you believe that Atmans are "worlds" ahead of Sicces?

I was wondering the same thing,IMO atmans are cheap pumps.I'll take a noisy sicce over the atman any day.swc uses the atmans because they are cheap and that helps keep costs down hence the skimmer
prices are reasonable.I'm not knocking swc at all,they have made the atman work very well for their skimmers.

[solitude127]

Originally Posted by scubasteve06

They don't have the start up issues that the sicce's have, the motor blocks are better. I don't think I'm the only one who thinks that the Atman pumps are better than the sicce's. Do you have a SWC skimmer with a sicce pump?

No I have a WM K2 with a Sicce w/ RD PW. I've never had a startup issue. I also have a SWC 120 with an atman.
JMO, but the way you make it sound like your going from a Sedra pump to a Red Dragon pump. The Sicce and Atman both have their pros and cons but I don't think that atmans are "worlds ahead" of Sicces.

[thcmusic]

I have read that if you oversize the skimmer, then it may stop producing skimmate once a certain level of protein has been reduced. A "right sized" skimmer would work continuously and remove skimmate down to an even lower protein levels.

Maybe I am too anal about this, but if I am going to "upgrade" to an SWC 160 Cone (with the altman pump) I want to be sure that skimmate production would be "better" (whatever that really means).

Thoughts??

[leslie hempel]

interesting, contemplating a move to acone myself but im not sure its worth the cash right now.. as for the sicce atman debate i feel sicce are a far better pump.. they have been arond the block in their time,,

[scubasteve06]

Originally Posted by solitude127

No I have a WM K2 with a Sicce w/ RD PW. I've never had a startup issue. I also have a SWC 120 with an atman.
JMO, but the way you make it sound like your going from a Sedra pump to a Red Dragon pump. The Sicce and Atman both have their pros and cons but I don't think that atmans are "worlds ahead" of Sicces.

I should of probably worded it better. I have never owned a skimmer with a sicce, or atman pump. I have however read some threads where people had or were having start up issues with their sicce's. I can't recall ever seeing a thread about an Atman start up issue. I know there are much better skimmer pumps out there than either one of them, I was just stating what I have read, but I misworded it. I wonder why the price of the extreme 160 cone is more than the regular cone 160 if the pumps are performance and reliability wise equal then...?

[thcmusic]

Originally Posted by scubasteve06

I should of probably worded it better. I have never owned a skimmer with a sicce, or atman pump. I have however read some threads where people had or were having start up issues with their sicce's. I can't recall ever seeing a thread about an Atman start up issue. I know there are much better skimmer pumps out there than either one of them, I was just stating what I have read, but I misworded it. I wonder why the price of the extreme 160 cone is more than the regular cone 160 if the pumps are performance and reliability wise equal then...?

Are you satisfied with your ASM G-2's performance on your 125?

[thcmusic]

Does anyone know the "performance data" for the sicce vs the altman on the 160 cone and non-cone skimmers?

[thcmusic]

Originally Posted by scubasteve06

Go with the extreme cone 160. They use the atman pumps which are worlds ahead of the sicce's if you are going to 'upgrade' honestly I see it as a sideways move, unless you were to go with the 160 extreme cone with the atman pump.

To clarify, your opinion is to go with a SWC 160 Cone with the Atman pump, otherwise not much benefit to move away from AquaC?

[scubasteve06]

Originally Posted by thcmusic

To clarify, your opinion is to go with a SWC 160 Cone with the Atman pump, otherwise not much benefit to move away from AquaC?

I would ask solitude this question since he has one and has seen the performance of this skimmer. I thought that the Atman pumps were better than the sicce's, but now from hearing from an owner of both pumps earlier in the thread, I'm not so sure. Some say their sicces never have problems, some do with start-up. I just had never heard anyone say that they had a problem with the Atman. One is made in Italy(sicce) and I think the Atman is made in China. Bubble magus uses the Atman pumps on their skimmers. But yes I'd say if you were to go with a SWC model the SWC extreme 160 cone would be a choice. If you really want to upgrade your skimmer then look into the SRO octopus line of skimmers. They are a little more expensive than the SWC cone 160 by about 100 bucks but I've heard nothing but great things about the Bubble Blaster pump. I'd also say that another great upgrade which if I personally had the money to do so would be a ATB 840. They use an Airstar pump which are really really good pumps. I think it would be safe to say that an Airstar pump would be worlds ahead of the Sicce(someone please correct me if I am wrong). The skimmate production that I have seen from the ATB's is second to none except by the BK skimmers, Deltec's, and maybe a Vertex Alpha which employs the same pump as the BK's (red dragon)

[BlueStag]

I've worked extensively with both pumps, and not just on one skimmer. I've tested the 160, 180 and the EV. Numerous as in over 20+ skimmers. Both pumps are great. Low watts and above average to high air pull.

To clarify, most negative comments about the Sicce, come from early usage of the pump, as in two years ago. The older styles had pinwheels and mesh wheels not properly engineered for it(generation 1). Some changes for the better where made to the magnets and redesigned needlewheels, and current model needlewheels from most manufacturers(including the most recent SWC models) are properly engineered and work very well. The negative comments from the early models were warranted, but most current model skimmers have worked out all those bugs. They really have everything to do with poorly engineered needlewheels and mesh wheels...and not the pump itself. The pump is a very low wattage, high airpull pump. And is one of the better options for a certain size skimmer.

The Atman is low cost, but, by no means a cheap pump. I was extremely critical of this pump at first...really judging it hard. But it kept working at a level higher than I was giving it credit. I kept waiting to find something wrong with it, so I could blast it here on RC. The pump works like a champ. It also runs at extremely low wattage and pulls an above average amount of air. It is a workhorse pump and has a very very low failure rate. Due to it's low cost combined with its good performance, it seems to slightly get better grades than the Sicce, by budget reefers. The Sicce performs better when comparing the two pumps.

The Sicce pulls more air but costs more. For some applications the extra air is needed. For those not on a budget, the extra performance is worth the extra $$$.

In your case, and tank size, the 160 is more than enough, and will skim very well. You will be able to over feed or over stock and it will keep up. You will be able to do it for about 1/3 the wattage that your currently using on your current skimmer, which is fairly inefficient. I consider it an upgrade from your current skimmer.

[thcmusic]

Thank you, your in-depth answer was very helpful! It sounds like I'll be soon upgrading to the SWC 160 Cone!

[BlueStag]

For a good review of the SWC 160 look on R E E F B U I L D E R S . C O M

[Rwinfrey]

Scuba just to let you know the 840s no longer come with the psk2500 aka mini airstars They are still sicce pumps just stock with a stand but no performance has been lost as far as air to water ratio

[Fishamatank]

I'll settle the debate:
Get the SRO XP 2000 with the bubble blaster pump.

[scubasteve06]

Originally Posted by Rwinfrey

Scuba just to let you know the 840s no longer come with the psk2500 aka mini airstars They are still sicce pumps just stock with a stand but no performance has been lost as far as air to water ratio

Is it the volute that ATB uses that makes it so good? I've been blown away from the performance I've seen from ATB's in general. So the Airstar is a Sicce pump? I've been saying that sicce's weren't that good on one hand and saying how good ATB is on the other, boy am I confused as to what I've thought. All the skimmers in my LFS back where I used to live where I got started in SW were octopus skimmers on the display tanks except for an H&S 150 a Vertex 200 Alpha and a SRO-2000 non cone and a SRO-5000 external cone. He loved his SRO's, the H&S, and the Alpha. He did however like the reef octopus or he wouldn't of had them employed on his tank. His skimmers were all about 2 years old or more (the reef octopus display skimmers). From what I've learned recently from other members the sicce pump has been redone and revised since then and is a lot better. He didn't say they were bad but always kept steering me back to the SRO's and praising the bubble blaster. I told him my price range was 300 bucks and he kept me very informed with the best skimmer for my range at the time which I ended up buying a LX-1000 HOB before I went to overflows and a sump. He did however say that the sicce's he had would have some start up issues and that there were better skimmers like SRO's, Alpha's, ATB's, Deltec, BK etc. So I guess I've always had it in my head that sicce's were just like a sedra and weren't considered as good as the better skimmer pumps. I have a sedra on my ASM and I'm not badmouthing it, but I'd like a little more consistency and less wattage draw. It seems like the sicce has this now. I guess I'm saying I stuck my foot in my mouth talking about sicce's. I'll be the first to admit I don't know everything and that I learn something new on this site from these people everyday. So I guess im asking what does make the ATB's so good and to be able to pull such nasty looking skimmate consistently?

[Rwinfrey]

the sicce's on the ATB's are olny on the 840 and yes they are the new revised ones the 1050s alluse laguna motor blocks.The SRO's are chinese copy's of the luguna motor blocks made by Honya for the octo skimmer's.If you did get an ATB you will be very happy I am and I used to do builds for a local store here in CT. So I have gotten to mess with a bunch of skimmers and so far ATB has topped them all. I currently run an ATB deluxe 8.5 the deluxes all come with a laguna motors mine is based off the 900 not the 1500 model of luguna. I used to run a mini air star that used a sicce pump here is a pic.