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Old 04/19/2017, 06:09 PM   #26
mike61289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jda View Post
Pyramid snails irritate clams to death if they are not treated and removed - this can take many months. I have never heard of them just killing a clam out of nowhere.
That's my thought as well.

Not sure about the LED lights theory.

In any case, it's done now. It's unfortunate, but I'm not getting this clam back.

If you're certain about the LEDs being an issue, I'll refrain from getting another clam for the time-being. I don't see why LEDs would negatively affect them, but not coral though.


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Old 04/20/2017, 12:40 PM   #27
MondoBongo
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Quote:
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You are probably not going to want to hear this, and it is hardly scientific, but I am starting to think that most LED lights are not good long-term for clams - I have always thought this about Crocea and Maxima, but this is no huge negative since they require even very power MH or T5 to survive too. Ca1ore had a large long-term squammy die suddenly a little while after switching to Radions - I never would have guessed lights, but I am starting to change my mind. This is another case.

I know that squammys are not super high light clams, but there have been too many deaths under LED to ignore when they even do quite well under lower wattage T5 and MH still.

...again, not scientific, but something to keep in mind perhaps. I don't expect anybody else to agree, but just be on the look out.
i've had my crocea under only LEDs for over 4 years now, and my derasa under only LEDs for just about 4 years now.


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Old 04/20/2017, 01:16 PM   #28
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I am not certain, but for every case you hear like MondoBongo, you hear of many, many more that did not work... enough so that it seems like successes are the exceptions.


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Old 04/20/2017, 01:39 PM   #29
MondoBongo
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I am not certain, but for every case you hear like MondoBongo, you hear of many, many more that did not work... enough so that it seems like successes are the exceptions.
i don't really see how i could be an exception?

i'm not using special lights. i'm not doing anything special to sustain them.

i think you're drawing an incorrect conclusion based on a biased sample. this happens a lot on these kinds of boards. for every one person that comes here to talk about how something died, there could be 10, 15, 20 that didn't take the time to stop by and say "nope everything is still fine".

you see this across many different kinds of markets. cars are an excellent parallel. there are certain car models that are notorious on the internet for one defect or another, but when you look at the actual statistics about how often the problem occurs, it is a far lower incident rate than you would expect based on the anecdotal evidence.

correlation does not equal causality.


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Old 04/20/2017, 02:06 PM   #30
jda
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There are not a lot of people who stop by to ask questions or post about a death, either. Of course message boards are horribly small sample sizes on both sides - people who use one side or the other are usually just trying to manipulate the point. However, when you take into account some of the very excellent stores near me who have had massive amount of clam deaths under LED and they have all subsided when they went back to MH tanks, then you start to wonder. Some of them won't even sell a maxima to a local with LED anymore. Proof no, but turning a blind eye doesn't help either. An observation about a few instances starts to turn into a pattern and then a pattern into a trend and then a trend into a study or some sort of increased awareness and then more can be learned from the observation.

I am not into parallel analogies or false equivalencies, but here one goes... you also see/saw one with LEDs and SPS where people said that they could grow whatever/whenever SPS and when you dig it, they end up being a lot of birdsnest, montis, etc. and usually very small and you rarely (not never, but rarely) see a tank full of big colonies of acropora under LED. A differentiation needed to be made that SPS did not always mean acropora and frags and not colonies This is another exception that needed some time to observe and some still argue that this does not happen. Your story and one that I saw on a TOTM a while back are the only instances where a high-light clam (crocea and maxima) are going after a year (and I assume growing), under LED - this compared with the dozens of failures. Now I know that crocea are not all that available anymore, but squamosa deaths are high too and that just stuns me since I have seen them kept under 2x PC lights for years and years.


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Old 04/20/2017, 02:07 PM   #31
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How deep is your tank?

How high above the water is the light?

Was the clam centered under it or off to the side?

For what it's worth, I've had a Maxima under AI Hydra LEDs (15 inches down in tank, lights are 4" above water line... BC29, non direct flow from MP20) for over a year and haven't ever fed it. It just gets light and I suppose whatever it filters out of the water. Maybe I should feed it, but it just keeps growing and seems content so I leave it alone!


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Old 04/20/2017, 06:46 PM   #32
Darthv247
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I would not blame LEDs alone. I think there is still a lot of learning to be done with LEDs. The hot spots and low spots are more likely to blame. As in no par or too much par for the clams/corals is the culprate. The retailers are taking notice if this and adjusting the spread in the fixtures. anyone running LEDs needs to be aware of their PAR levels and find the correct locations.


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