Super ORANGE Wild Caught Ocellaris - Why?

[vaporize]

Recently I came across a Phillipines shipment with these SUPER Orange bright looking ocellaris, there are other shades and less orange and also some more darker and fading colour, the ones shown the picture are the brightest of them all.

Also included in the thread are pictures of normal ocellaris including some ORA t.r. ocellaris to compare the colour. Since these are wild caught, it is unlikely that they are colored up by nutri-rose and the like.

All of the photo are taken under the same 6500K PC lighting, without any additional touch-up. Any thoughts?

Super ORANGE


Normal Ocellaris (ORA & spawning pair)

[acrodave]

nutting can compete with mother nature.. its has to do were they are from and what they have been eating

[jt_milstead]

Those are REALLY bright.Tank raised are almost always less colorful.

[vaporize]

Originally Posted by jt_milstead

Those are REALLY bright.Tank raised are almost always less colorful.

Not always, depending on the breeder. Certain professional breeders use a color enhancing product - nutri-rose to enhance it to get this crazy orange-reddish colour.

But this is the first time I see it in a wild caught clownfish.

[DeathWish302]

Originally Posted by vaporize

Not always, depending on the breeder. Certain professional breeders use a color enhancing product - nutri-rose to enhance it to get this crazy orange-reddish colour.

But this is the first time I see it in a wild caught clownfish.

Nutra Rose is just pure asthaxanthin. This can be readily obtained by feeding Cyclopeeze. As for WC clown coloring versus TR, my TR tomato female looks better than most WC females I have found. The secret is an intensive diet of Cyclopeeze to advance some coloration, but genetics cannot be overshadowed by diet.

[iFisch]

All I know is those would look SICK with 10k or 14k lighting. Ditch the 6500k.


VERY colorful fish.

[Aerowen]

WOW great color!

[Heterodonut]

Some aquacultured fish are as bright or brighter as many people have stated above. If these fish are truly wild caught then they must have been feeding on a diet rich in the pigments needed to produce such colors (in the wild, or the exporters tank). AS one person stated above as well, genetics does play a role, and color enhanced diets can only improve what the genetic make-up allows. BTW Nice loking fish!

[Arati]

my .02

The answer as already posted is diet.

The extended answer is gentics, these fish have been on some super diet for many generations and the results are a small pocket of fish with exeptional color. with the genetics to achieve such a color.

Like DW302 posted high quality Cyclopeeze is the place to start.It should be Whole and orange / red in color.

It is to expesive to raise fish in larger numbers on such high quality foods, and after generations in captivity the exact oposite happens and you get fish with a more drab coloration that cant be fed or nurtured to a color they dont geneticaly support.. I am not saying to buy wild fish Im saying we as a market need to be willing to pay slightly more for fish of a higher quality not just fish with an unusual pattern.


Edit found it~~~ Tufacody yesterday

To be honest, I wish that the cost of "low-end" fish would go up and the cost of "high-end" fish would come down. I think the breeders and LFS' would make more money and it would be better for the hobby.

Someposted it yesterday, cheap fish need to cost more and expensive fish need to cost less. Not for my sake , for the sake of the fish and the future of the reefs.

[DeathWish302]

Originally Posted by Arati

Like DW302 posted high quality Cyclopeeze is the place to start.It should be Whole and orange / red in color.

It is to expesive to raise fish in larger numbers on such high quality foods...

Yeah! Feeding 100+ juvies Cyclopeeze and quality pellet/flake can start to cost on the magnitude of $20+ every couple of months. If your breeding at the volumes of ORA, C-Quest, SA, etc. your going to burn through pounds of food a day. I will say my Tomato female that is sooo bright red-orange came from C-Quest along with my recent drab male tomato mate replacement. Obviously the female had 'good' genes and the male has lesser coloration in his bloodline.

[iFisch]

Originally Posted by DeathWish302

Yeah! Feeding 100+ juvies Cyclopeeze and quality pellet/flake can start to cost on the magnitude of $20+ every couple of months. If your breeding at the volumes of ORA, C-Quest, SA, etc. your going to burn through pounds of food a day. I will say my Tomato female that is sooo bright red-orange came from C-Quest along with my recent drab male tomato mate replacement. Obviously the female had 'good' genes and the male has lesser coloration in his bloodline.

$20 to feed the amount of fish those breeders go through, that's like $.10 a fish additional. A quality breeder, uses quality products.

[DeathWish302]

Originally Posted by iFisch

$20 to feed the amount of fish those breeders go through, that's like $.10 a fish additional. A quality breeder, uses quality products.

Agreed! You get what you pay for. That's why I have bought the clowns I have in the past. Quality input (food) = Quality output (clowns). Geez, why is everyone up in arms about the dog food???? (NOTE the sarcasm!)

[masterbreeder]

Originally Posted by DeathWish302

Yeah! Feeding 100+ juvies Cyclopeeze and quality pellet/flake can start to cost on the magnitude of $20+ every couple of months. If your breeding at the volumes of ORA, C-Quest, SA, etc. your going to burn through pounds of food a day. I will say my Tomato female that is sooo bright red-orange came from C-Quest along with my recent drab male tomato mate replacement. Obviously the female had 'good' genes and the male has lesser coloration in his bloodline.

I have to agree, that this colouration is genetic. I just received a brood stock pair ocellaris and the male looks similar in colour. Not that bright, but there is a major difference between female and male in terms of colour.
Another thing I would like to mention is, the use of astaxanthin.
I organised Caraphyll pink (contains 10% astaxanthin) and added 200 ppm of astaxanthin to my home made broodstock feed. I decided to separate a few of my regular ocellaris and a few of my albino ocellaris. After two days on the new diet, the result is clearly visible.
I am going to feed them until the end of this month with the new diet, to see how far the colouration will develop.
Cyclop eeze contains I think almost 3000 ppm astaxanthin. But there is a saturation point and that seems to me quite low. I followed the recommendation from the following link, to add only 200 ppm of astaxanthin.

http://www.brineshrimpdirect.com/Foo...ought-c85.html

I bought the carophyll pink here in South Africa. 50 gram for around 20 USD.
50 gram carophyll pink is enough to enrich 25 kg of home made food.

The cost per kg home made feed for adding astaxanthin at 200 ppm is only 0,8 USD. Very cheap for this kind of result.

I also found, that spirulina is an very important part of the diet for growout.
Since I add spirulina, 5 gram per kg, the juveniles eat until the look like marbles with fins. Unbelievable. I really can see them growing now.

[DeathWish302]

Originally Posted by masterbreeder

I have to agree, that this colouration is genetic. I just received a brood stock pair ocellaris and the male looks similar in colour. Not that bright, but there is a major difference between female and male in terms of colour.
Another thing I would like to mention is, the use of astaxanthin.
I organised Caraphyll pink (contains 10% astaxanthin) and added 200 ppm of astaxanthin to my home made broodstock feed. I decided to separate a few of my regular ocellaris and a few of my albino ocellaris. After two days on the new diet, the result is clearly visible.
I am going to feed them until the end of this month with the new diet, to see how far the colouration will develop.
Cyclop eeze contains I think almost 3000 ppm astaxanthin. But there is a saturation point and that seems to me quite low. I followed the recommendation from the following link, to add only 200 ppm of astaxanthin.

http://www.brineshrimpdirect.com/Foo...ought-c85.html

I bought the carophyll pink here in South Africa. 50 gram for around 20 USD.
50 gram carophyll pink is enough to enrich 25 kg of home made food.

The cost per kg home made feed for adding astaxanthin at 200 ppm is only 0,8 USD. Very cheap for this kind of result.

I also found, that spirulina is an very important part of the diet for growout.
Since I add spirulina, 5 gram per kg, the juveniles eat until the look like marbles with fins. Unbelievable. I really can see them growing now.

I would agree their is a saturation point and too much of a good thing is bad as with anything. I feed Cyclopeeze heavily at first and then cut back to every few days. I also agree spirulina is a very important element in any clown diet. I've also started feeding blackworms and the clowns vigor has went through the roof. I'm going to start pushing more purple algae that has been marinated in FRESHLY minced garlic and see if the clowns will take to it. A varied diet is the only way to push coloration to the max that the bloodlines will allow...

[AD87]

Bump such a good old thread.

Has anyone noticed color changes using spectrum red fish food?

[joshky]

Sad to see beautiful clowns like that and think of how badly muddled the genetics are with captive-bred. And to make it worse, only a small few even seemingly care.

[AD87]

Josh,

Exactly, is why I’m in search for a while caught pair that have good color. Please anyone keep a look out for me.

[zma21]

It was their diet.

About 5 years back I had to do a senior research project to graduate with my Biology degree. Stuff like this isn't uncommon. Whatever they were eating had high/the right amounts of beta carotene among other things. The specifics escape me, but stuff like this is unfortunately why there will be a big market for wild caught fish in the foreseeable future.

[D-Nak]

Originally Posted by zma21

It was their diet.

About 5 years back I had to do a senior research project to graduate with my Biology degree. Stuff like this isn't uncommon. Whatever they were eating had high/the right amounts of beta carotene among other things. The specifics escape me, but stuff like this is unfortunately why there will be a big market for wild caught fish in the foreseeable future.

I don’t think we’ll see much of an increase in the need for wild caught fish based simply on color. Definitely not a big market. Most hobbyists are content with captive bred, especially with regards to color. And they definitely don’t care about or notice many of the physical defects.

Nowadays, more and more food sources, such as TDO, have a high amount of astaxanthin to promote good color. We won’t be able to produce fish as brightly colored as the wild pair shown, but we can get close if we try hard enough.

[CoralsAddiction]

Stronger and better lighting can intensify clownfish colors in addition to diet.

[AD87]

Originally Posted by CoralsAddiction

Stronger and better lighting can intensify clownfish colors in addition to diet.

Lighting has nothing to do with the true color of the fish. Lighting plays a part on how the fish appear to our eyes.

Well time will tell I switched to spectrum red and I will keep the other clowns (same batch of wild caught) on the regular diet to see if I notice any changes.

[CoralsAddiction]

Originally Posted by AD87

Lighting has nothing to do with the true color of the fish. Lighting plays a part on how the fish appear to our eyes.

Well time will tell I switched to spectrum red and I will keep the other clowns (same batch of wild caught) on the regular diet to see if I notice any changes.

I’ve been fascinated by wild Onyx clowns for some time now and went as far as talking to professors who studied, and teach marine animals. Some of them theorize that darker true Percula clowns occur in the wild not only based on their host anemone choice (A. Gigantea) but also by virtue of being in shallower reefs that receive more intense sunlight.
Thus, I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss the theory.

[CoralsAddiction]

There’s a fish store in Culver City, CA that gets wild Occy clowns on a weekly basis from Indonesia and Phiipinnes..or at least they used to. Some of the clowns they get are bright orange.
This is one of the Occy clowns I had gotten from them before...nice thick black lines

[CoralsAddiction]

[QUOTE=CoralsAddiction;25470791 host anemone choice (A. Gigantea) [/QUOTE]

S. Gigantea

[D-Nak]

Originally Posted by CoralsAddiction

I’ve been fascinated by wild Onyx clowns for some time now and went as far as talking to professors who studied, and teach marine animals. Some of them theorize that darker true Percula clowns occur in the wild not only based on their host anemone choice (A. Gigantea) but also by virtue of being in shallower reefs that receive more intense sunlight.
Thus, I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss the theory.

I concur. I also read somewhere that Rod of Rod's Onyx had his juveniles under bright lights (halides) and attributed the black getting blacker sooner to the use of the lights. Of course, the gene that C-Quest focused on is primarily responsible for the amount of black but a little "help" along the way doesn't hurt.

To further support this theory, aren't Darwin ocellaris found in shallow water as well?