Tank raised Purple Tangs!

[Tripod1404]

Originally Posted by Gorgok

Not to knock it that bad, but those 500 you catch and remove would not just go poof if left in the system, but become a food source that some other thing might be dependent on. So yeah, it isn't the same as removing adult fish in droves, but it still will have impact to some degree.

On a worst case view it may lead to less predators because of lack of food, which then causes a population boom of the target species which then leads to them stripping the environment of their food source and a population collapse. To go that far it would have to be pretty substantial larval harvest though... And a substantial adult harvest would basically skip all the previous steps to the last one anyway (and then in turn lead to the first one).

Yes unfortunately it is not a perfect solution. But again you are causing minimum damage to the breeding population. Fish larvae mostly compete for plankton. So if you remove them in this period, hopeful some other fish larvea have higher chance of survival. Those can fill up the food chain. I dont think there are any fish that depends specifically on the larvae of another specific fish, so they should be able to adjust.

[Salty150]

Originally Posted by saf1

By no means am I judging and it is a step in the right direction but don't think the price is going to drop anytime soon. If at all. Just look at ORA for an example.

ORA is captive breed - there is a HUGE amount of time and R&D that you are paying for when you buy ORA.

Tank raised is a totally different story.

[Tripod1404]

Originally Posted by CrayolaViolence

Not to mention, how do you know the one fish that has the strength to survive, isn't the one harvested?

You are doing the collection randomly and the sample size is large, so the ones remain and the ones you collect should have equal number of individuals that are strong enough to survive. This is better than collecting adults, young adults or juvis where you specifically target the fish that looks the healthiest and strongest.

[saf1]

Originally Posted by Salty150

ORA is captive breed - there is a HUGE amount of time and R&D that you are paying for when you buy ORA.

Tank raised is a totally different story.

I understand - but costs should be going down over time has the process is refined. Also note that I said "ORA" in general terms. They also sell coral frags. I don't want to derail the thread but my point is around cost. Let me put it this way, what is a hobbyist going to choose 9 out of 10 times. A yellow tang that costs $14 dollars or $60 to $100 dollar captive raised yellow?

Personally I think people should try and buy captive raised or bred fish and corals fragged first when possible but sometimes it is cost prohibited... I paid 50 bucks for a frag of Xenia from ORA. My opinion a bit over the top when most people consider it a pest or give it away by the handful.

[CrayolaViolence]

Originally Posted by Tripod1404

You are doing the collection randomly and the sample size is large, so the ones remain and the ones you collect should have equal number of individuals that are strong enough to survive. This is better than collecting adults, young adults or juvis where you specifically target the fish that looks the healthiest and strongest.

I get that. But as I said, you can't tell if the fish collected would have survived in the wild or not, or the fish that were left behind would or would not. There will almost always be an impact, even when things are tank bred there will--eventually--be an ecological impact. It is inevitable.

[JZinCO]

Originally Posted by Tripod1404

Yes unfortunately it is not a perfect solution. But again you are causing minimum damage to the breeding population. Fish larvae mostly compete for plankton. So if you remove them in this period, hopeful some other fish larvea have higher chance of survival. Those can fill up the food chain. I dont think there are any fish that depends specifically on the larvae of another specific fish, so they should be able to adjust.

There certainly are specic specific larval predation in freshwater systems (e.g. bluegill and bass). Though freshwater systems tend to have much less diversity at macro organism sizes than marine systems...

I can say with absolute certainty that I don't know. There are two competing hypothesis for what controls adult fish abundance. There is the recruitment limitation hypothesis that states that adult abundances are determined mostly by presettlement egg mortality. Then there is the Predation hypothesis whish states that adult abundances are determined by pescivory of adults.
There is a book called the Ecology of Fishes on Coral Reefs. If one had the time or interest, they could read the evidence presented. I'm sure, as in most of ecology the answer is context dependent and largely hinges on the individual behavior and physiology of the predator and prey in question.

[albano]

Originally Posted by Salty150

It should bring down the costs substantially...

Not sure why you think it would 'bring down the costs', never mind 'substantially'...
Even if there were savings, they don't always go the the retail customer.

[Salty150]

Originally Posted by albano

Not sure why you think it would 'bring down the costs', never mind 'substantially'...
Even if there were savings, they don't always go the the retail customer.

lol, it usually does...

Plus, supply and demand.

They will soon have 200+ Purple Tangs to sell just from this one "batch" of eggs.

We will see...

[saf1]

Originally Posted by albano

Not sure why you think it would 'bring down the costs', never mind 'substantially'...
Even if there were savings, they don't always go the the retail customer.

Because with each successful clutch that is raised lessons are learned. Higher mortality rate, etc. You know what they eat, you know how much to prepare, you know what went right, wrong, etc. I'll ask my question again. Would you pay 14 dollars for a yellow tang or 100 knowing it was captive raised?

9 out of 10 people will pay 14 dollars.

[Salty150]

Originally Posted by saf1

I'll ask my question again. Would you pay 14 dollars for a yellow tang or 100 knowing it was captive raised?

9 out of 10 people will pay 14 dollars.

You are missing the point and taking it in the other direction.

The question is - who would want to pay $200 for a native caught purple Tang - when they could be paying $100 for a tanked raised one when the tank raised craze takes off?

[albano]

Originally Posted by Salty150

The question is - who would want to pay $200 for a native caught purple Tang - when they could be paying $100 for a tanked raised one when the tank raised craze takes off?

Of course the people will buy the cheaper fish...which will be the wild caught for a long while...
in my area purple tangs are often available for $100 and less!

[saf1]

Originally Posted by Salty150

You are missing the point and taking it in the other direction.

The question is - who would want to pay $200 for a native caught purple Tang - when they could be paying $100 for a tanked raised one when the tank raised craze takes off?

I believe we both don't want to argue semantics. Captive bred, and raised, should go down in price over time (think prescription drugs (generic vs. name brands) or manufacturing products). I think we are in agreement based on some your above posts.

Maybe I took it another direction or misunderstood. I did say originally that I like the idea though.

[saf1]

Originally Posted by albano

Of course the people will buy the cheaper fish...which will be the wild caught for a long while...
in my area purple tangs are often available for $100 and less!

Your in the bay area? Wonder why yours are cheaper - maybe closer to initial shipping / pickup. I've not seen a $100 purple for a long long while. Just outside Sacramento here.

[albano]

Originally Posted by saf1

Your in the bay area? Wonder why yours are cheaper - maybe closer to initial shipping / pickup. I've not seen a $100 purple for a long long while. Just outside Sacramento here.

No, New York

[saf1]

Originally Posted by albano

No, New York

I wasn't even close...go figure.