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10/19/2016, 02:18 PM
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#9226 | |
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Moved On
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Colorado
Posts: 565
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Quote:
I would advise using 45's and trying to make it more of a diagonal run than a horizontal, as a 6-7ft horizontal will definitely not flow as well. However, as the open channel, it should be OK, since you'll still have the siphon and emergency with shorter runs. It may struggle to ever become a full siphon in an emergency situation though, so all this should be tested for various failure scenarios to make sure the combination of the emergency + open channel can still handle your flow rate, or even if just the emergency by itself can handle it. personally i like it as close to the sump as possible, although i've done it both ways and haven't had issues with either. It was more about accessibility and space, on my 120g which has a ghost style overflow, it really had to be above the sump due to height constraints, on my 60g, which is bottom drilled, it pretty much had to be below the tank, because of the fact it's bottom drilled. Sometimes you don't get a choice! my rationale for having it closer to the sump is that essentially when you close the valve, that tube is going to fill up with water, and I figure having more pressure behind the valve will mean it purges air better or something, in practice i haven't noticed a difference though. |
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10/19/2016, 07:29 PM
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#9227 | |
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Registered Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: AWOL
Posts: 12,013
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Quote:
A BA system is not recommended for a tank with dual corner overflows, without a great deal of modifications to the tank configuration. The reason it is not recommended is due to the interaction between the siphon and the open channel, which will not occur--unless the siphon and open channel are in the same body of water. One in the overflow on the left, and the other in the overflow on the right, does not constitute being in the same body of water. Bean has stated this, I have stated it, and others have picked up on it and stated it also. We went round and round about this several years ago, and pretty much decided (collectively) it is best not to run this system in a tank with dual corner overflows, unless you are ok with one overflow being shut down, or you simply do not care really how it operates so long as it simply drains water. It does not seem to make much sense to go to the trouble to use the three standpipes, and not make the system work the way it is supposed to work. You can drain water with a durso, a Herbie, a two pipe siphon system, gurgle buster or what have you; and you can run a dual herbie (which has a few issues) with the return over the back.
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"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." (oft attributed to Einstein; most likely paraphrasing by Roger Sessions; compactly articulates the principle of Occam's Razor) Current Tank Info: 325 6' wide Reef |
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10/19/2016, 07:44 PM
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#9228 |
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Sir Brian The Lenient
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Mattoon, IL
Posts: 32,111
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Post edited.
Please do not refer to the opinions of others "noise". Also, do not use disparaging pejoratives when referring to groups whose opinion differs (i.e. "... police").
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Always strive for the optimum environment, not the minimum environment. Current Tank Info: Empty |
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10/19/2016, 08:28 PM
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#9229 |
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Moved On
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Colorado
Posts: 565
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this place is freaking out of control.
tell this guy not to start getting into everyones face and calling every thing wrong every time a question is posted about plumbing system. he's condescending as hell. i'm sorry bud, but if this guy gets free reign to **** all over people in plumbing threads constantly, and i've had numerous conversations in private with others similarly frustrated with him, and you'll sit here and take his side? this place is such a joke sometimes. you wouldn't have been having to warn me not to call the lynch mob out as the BA police if this sort of condescending opinion hadn't been let to run rampant in the first place. getting involved now is beyond late, imho. and by blaming me, you are simply shooting the messenger. I am only one of many frustrated by this behavior. I would expect facts and truths to be upheld over opinion. Opinions represented as facts are still not facts, and there are some who behave this way and expect no one to question them on it. Both times you've run into me now, they've been times where I called someone out representing their opinions unjustly as truths, and you've taken their side over mine. I'm not going to read into it any more than that, other than you're not making me feel very good about this place. And you know what? If they are offended...They should be! http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/...lds-273584.jpg Last edited by LXXero; 10/19/2016 at 08:52 PM. |
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10/19/2016, 10:30 PM
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#9230 |
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Registered Member
  
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 9,671
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I've found great advice from uncleof6. There have been a few things I don't agree with but the majority I most definitely do and have learned from his posts as well. Even just recently in another thread talking about paste vs sealants vs tape.
__________________
rebuild and recovery log: No more red house, you'll have to click on my name and visit my homepage! You can check out my parameters at reeftronics dot net website and look for my username. Current Tank Info: 180g mixed reef w/ a beananimal overflow to a dolomite RRUGF. | 20g long G. Smithii Mantis Tank |
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10/19/2016, 11:22 PM
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#9231 | |
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Moved On
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Colorado
Posts: 565
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Quote:
The problem isn't that there isn't any useful information there, the problem is the absolutist attitude he takes with others. He even helped me out with my 60 cube one time, and I did appreciate that advice, but it makes no sense to treat it as if everyone else's opinions are wrong because it doesn't follow a 3d diagram of a bean animal to a Tee (pun intended?). It's downright condescending at times, and for me to be taking punches for calling him out on this behavior is well, downright insulting to me, and quite honestly, if the mods would have been paying attention would have told him to tame that attitude long ago, but i feel like apparently seniority rules around here and truth, honesty, and facts are given a backseat to that. And let's not even get into the tape thing. There was an entire thread he dragged out the whole "use sealant no matter what" thing and it turned out the guy had a bum fitting and it wasn't teflon nor sealant nor this other red herring he kept throwing around that was the problem....now you'll see one of the newer threads where someone had a similar problem, both of us suggested hey check the fitting first, try one from another brand, lol. Lesson learned for both of us at least, but running around like a chicken with it's head cut off repeating the same schpeal about sealant over and over again wasn't helping anyone at that point when the fittings simply were faulty or from two mis-matched brands and just didn't for the life of them create a proper seal regardless of what substance was put between them. Meanwhile, i know people in real life who do commercial aquariums and custom builds and have used teflon for the past 30+ yrs with no dramatic effect, and I trust those people way more than anyone from this forum. It's not that it won't work, it's that you need to know the proper technique and also when to just accept okay these two fittings are basically shot, i mean so much of this stuff is "well, does it work?" If not, try again. I think most people realize that some of these viewpoints are over the top and take it with a grain of salt. I'd been avoiding that argument with him for a long time, but, since you went there. i think at some point it ceases being helpful and unnecessary sends people down red herring after red herring. Not everyone wants to cut everything apart and start over, some people wanna know "how can i make this work" and i just see this belligerence towards anything other than this sort of "start all over and do it my way" prescription. It doesn't matter to most reefers whether it's "technically a bean animal" as long as it works safely enough, at some point it all just starts sounding silly. I don't know, i feel like this absolutist attitude just sucks all the fun out of the hobby for me, that's the honest truth. Half the fun for me is experimenting and coming up with things, not always having to follow some straight and narrow formula is really all what it's about. People are coming up with new stuff all the time, new technology, new pumps, new techniques for all kinds of things, there is no reason plumbing has to be some off-limits thing in regards to innovations or modifications, and ultimately I will always tell people to experiment and test before I tell them to cut it all apart and start over. |
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10/19/2016, 11:25 PM
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#9232 |
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Registered Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 9,671
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Well, this is the thread BeanAnimal started about his redesign of an overflow system.
If you'd like to start and maintain another thread on modified BeanAnimal overflows that would be helpful to those looking to do so.
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rebuild and recovery log: No more red house, you'll have to click on my name and visit my homepage! You can check out my parameters at reeftronics dot net website and look for my username. Current Tank Info: 180g mixed reef w/ a beananimal overflow to a dolomite RRUGF. | 20g long G. Smithii Mantis Tank |
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10/19/2016, 11:46 PM
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#9233 | |
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Moved On
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Colorado
Posts: 565
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Quote:
The problem isn't limited to this thread, and half the people in this thread ARE asking about doing a modified bean animal. So maybe you should go tell all them to start their own threads? this technicality of a "bean animal vs modified bean animal" is the whole fallacy i'm calling out in the first place, the point is, no one really cares except the "BA Police", and i have honestly no choice but to continue using that term until the behavior stops, because i don't really know what to call it anymore. This obsession with terminology is helping no one. I think i've reached my bigot quota for the day. |
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10/19/2016, 11:50 PM
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#9234 | |
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Registered Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 9,671
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Quote:
Why I ceased communicating via PM with you. You have no etiquette or ability to say, I'm sorry or I was wrong.
__________________
rebuild and recovery log: No more red house, you'll have to click on my name and visit my homepage! You can check out my parameters at reeftronics dot net website and look for my username. Current Tank Info: 180g mixed reef w/ a beananimal overflow to a dolomite RRUGF. | 20g long G. Smithii Mantis Tank |
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10/20/2016, 12:15 AM
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#9235 | |
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Moved On
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Colorado
Posts: 565
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Quote:
Your original argument with me was because you kept posting negative stuff about products in product review threads for products you don't even own. I even recently saw other people call you out on that EXACT same thing and you were all like "oh let's not go down that road again" so clearly it's not just me who's seen you do this. Why should I be sorry? Clearly you're upset over the fact I called you out on it. If you honestly had no guilt in this matter, then I don't see why you'd still be so upset, but the fact you're upset is good, you should be, and you should learn from it. I'm sorry, but all this is exactly the kind of fun-sucking attitudes i've been talking about. This sort of stuff just doesn't make the hobby fun for anyone. Most people just want some answers, not being told to throw it all out, not wishful speculations about products you don't own like a buncha virgins talking about sex. If you want to talk to me, please, by all means, PM me some form of contact outside the forums and we can chat, and you can choose to block me whenever you like, but I'm not making the mistake of talking to you anymore on here. I'm not the kind of person to block someone, and I don't really intend anything I say to be taken personally, I'm just frustrated by these extremist attitudes, and this situation is really nothing to do with your beef with me Jason, so, I really would appreciate if you just stay out of it, or message me in private. |
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10/20/2016, 06:10 AM
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#9236 |
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Registered Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 9,671
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To be clear, I posted my concerns for the safety of others and questions to be answered by a manufacturer to explain their product's specifications.
I also posted requests for features of a product while the product was still being developed which is a perfect time to request options. Also, the thing is huge. That is fact a fact that doesn't need one to own one to see. That was the only major negative thing I said against it that was my opinion and stated so. I spend a lot of my time and money to experiment and learn about different products that I would hope can help everyone. You do like to twist things. All I made was one comment stating I appreciate uncleof6's participation. Nothing against you. Edit: and no I will not deal with you in PM anymore. The way you go about things amounts to online bullying Good luck and happy reefing.
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rebuild and recovery log: No more red house, you'll have to click on my name and visit my homepage! You can check out my parameters at reeftronics dot net website and look for my username. Current Tank Info: 180g mixed reef w/ a beananimal overflow to a dolomite RRUGF. | 20g long G. Smithii Mantis Tank Last edited by jason2459; 10/20/2016 at 06:29 AM. |
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10/20/2016, 06:49 AM
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#9237 | |
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Sir Brian The Lenient
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Mattoon, IL
Posts: 32,111
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Quote:
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Always strive for the optimum environment, not the minimum environment. Current Tank Info: Empty |
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10/20/2016, 07:45 AM
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#9238 |
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Either busy or sleeping
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People take things way too personally man...it's plumbing.
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Algae Scrubber Basics!!! GOOGLE "algaescrubber zoho" General Interest Forums --> Advanced Topics --> Algae Scrubber Basics (sticky) --> POSTS #3251-64 (Basics), #5206 (Cleaning), #6884 (LEDs), #729 |
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10/20/2016, 08:08 AM
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#9239 | |
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Registered Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 9,671
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Quote:
__________________
rebuild and recovery log: No more red house, you'll have to click on my name and visit my homepage! You can check out my parameters at reeftronics dot net website and look for my username. Current Tank Info: 180g mixed reef w/ a beananimal overflow to a dolomite RRUGF. | 20g long G. Smithii Mantis Tank |
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10/20/2016, 09:08 AM
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#9240 | |
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Raise The Reef!
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Utah
Posts: 7,404
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Quote:
__________________
Ryan Click on my user name and check out my homepage! Current Tank Info: 50g Cadlights/Giesemann Spectra (250w Radium, 2 ATI Blue Plus, 2 ATI Actinic)/2 x Vortech MP10wQD/Skimz SN123/Eheim Compact 3000+ |
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10/20/2016, 09:38 AM
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#9241 |
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Registered Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 53
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Wow that escalated quickly..
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10/20/2016, 12:07 PM
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#9242 |
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Registered Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 255
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Would the BA system work with one of the 3 holes drilled outside of the overflow box? I got this tank with a corner overflow and 3 holes drilled total, 2 in the box, one outside of it (all drilled in the bottom). I wasn't really planning on running my return up through there since I will have a canopy and didn't think I would like how it looks, but if I could make it silent for when I read then that would make me happy.
Per the argument above, it would not be stagnant since it is not in a separate overflow. So would this be acceptable? |
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10/20/2016, 12:43 PM
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#9243 | |
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Registered Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: AWOL
Posts: 12,013
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Quote:
The siphon and open channel do have to be in the same "overflow" for the system to self adjust as it is supposed to.
__________________
"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." (oft attributed to Einstein; most likely paraphrasing by Roger Sessions; compactly articulates the principle of Occam's Razor) Current Tank Info: 325 6' wide Reef |
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10/24/2016, 01:25 PM
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#9244 |
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Registered Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: MA
Posts: 4,074
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Sorry for the stupid question but do I need to glue the PVC pieces in the overflow together? Is dry fitting the "wet" pieces be okay? I asked because I like to take stuff apart and clean them once in awhile.
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Nick When a man talks dirty to a woman, it's sexual harassment. When a woman talks dirty to a man, it's $4.95 per minute. Current Tank Info: Miracle 360 gallons |
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10/24/2016, 02:21 PM
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#9245 | |
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Registered Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Metairie, LA
Posts: 823
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Quote:
I don't have mine glued in the overflow for this same reason and haven't noticed any problems. They are just pressed together tightly. The systems has only been running about two weeks can't tell for sure if there are any long term issues. |
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10/29/2016, 12:43 PM
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#9246 |
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Registered Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: California
Posts: 2,259
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Shopping list. Is there a single source, online, that has all of the correct parts to plumb a Bean Animal overflow? I just got back from my local hardware store and they had some pieces and pvc pipes but not all of it.
My tank is being completed this week and I'd like to order the plumbing parts and bulk heads while it is in transit. I had the external overflow set up to be 12" height with 3 x 1.5" bulkheads. I figured it may be best to ask if any of you found the items on one place rather than buying here and there. Thanks.
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-saf1 Current Tank Info: 210 gallon mixed reef |
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10/29/2016, 11:45 PM
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#9247 | |
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Registered Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: AWOL
Posts: 12,013
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Quote:
__________________
"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." (oft attributed to Einstein; most likely paraphrasing by Roger Sessions; compactly articulates the principle of Occam's Razor) Current Tank Info: 325 6' wide Reef |
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10/30/2016, 08:50 AM
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#9248 | |
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Registered Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: California
Posts: 2,259
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Quote:
The sanitary-tee of all things was proving difficult. Also quality true-union ball valves. For some reason I didn't think they had a large variance of price but they sure do. So I was looking for middle ground on quality/price point. Thanks again for the idea, will take a look at what I have near by. Edit: Ok, change of plans after reviewing Bean's diagrams. My bulkhead(s) are on the bottom of the overflow and it would appear that his image / design is coming in from the side. I was using the diagram to order parts and I just caught this. I think I'm going to wait to order overflow parts until the tank actually arrives to be safe. What a goof on my part. My overflow is box goes like: 1" bulkhead outer left 1.5" bulkhead middle left 1.5" bulkhead middle 1.5" bulkhead middle right 1" bulkhead outer right Also going to re-read the thread. I know people have them coming up from the bottom but I am not seeing how to manage the space. Especially when the piping is 1.5".
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-saf1 Current Tank Info: 210 gallon mixed reef Last edited by saf1; 10/30/2016 at 09:31 AM. |
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10/30/2016, 03:28 PM
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#9249 |
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Registered Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: California
Posts: 2,259
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Can't edit my post above, but is there any reason why I can't move the sanitary tee inside the overflow? Space permitting of course and height. Looking at the diagrams it seems like this would more or less work the same and follow the design. Elbow would be straight shot to tee. Vertical NPT slip adaptor, cap, and John Guest fitting should look the same. PVC pipe, True Union ball valve below.
I will still wait to receive the tank before I order anything just to make sure proper fitting and understand a bit more how water level is managed inside. That seems to be a crucial piece in the design.
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-saf1 Current Tank Info: 210 gallon mixed reef |
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10/30/2016, 08:59 PM
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#9250 | |
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Registered Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: AWOL
Posts: 12,013
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Quote:
__________________
"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." (oft attributed to Einstein; most likely paraphrasing by Roger Sessions; compactly articulates the principle of Occam's Razor) Current Tank Info: 325 6' wide Reef |
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| beananimal, plumbing |
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