Looking at marine tanks

ammia.storey · 11/03/2019, 03:55 PM

Hi in my house we have had cold water fish for as long as I can remember . Me my wife and 6yr daughter have just finished our pond last year which we love spending time at but now want to turn to Marine to bring the hobbie and love of fish in to the front room . We like to do projects together so we would be starting small very basic and building up from there with budget and experience. What are the very very basics for keeping Marine fish ?
Do we need sumps or could we get away with canisters for now ? Ect ? I know I'll have opened a can of worms on this one but any help as to get on the first step of this amazing hobbie will be greatly appreciated. Thank you

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Daddi0 · 11/03/2019, 04:44 PM

As a first tank I would go with a tank like the Innovative Marine 30L or such. These tanks have a compartment in the back of the tank that you would have your pumps and a Ghost Skimmer if you like. Stay away from the canisters. While cannisters are great on freshwater, we tend to use bacteria in the rocks and sand to remove waste products from saltwater tanks. Of the 8 tanks we have, I like our I.M. 30L and our Coralife Bio-Cube the most.
Cheers! Mark

ammia.storey · 11/03/2019, 06:19 PM

Thanks for that mark I'll have a look at those then . I've got a 100ltr tank at home sat empty and a 4000 canister but could always sell on to help fund the new one like

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mcgyvr · 11/03/2019, 06:51 PM

One doesn't need a sump nor skimmer or anything like that to be successful.. One can easily maintain a saltwater system with nothing more than saltwater, rock, maybe sand ...a powerhead for oxygenation and movement and water changes...

Sk8r · 11/03/2019, 07:58 PM

There are all-in-one's that do well, though spendy (about 300.00). Mcgyvr's right though: we ran a very simple 20g marine tank with a lot of algae and a firefish (3" cigarette shape) on nothing more than a basic light and a Penguin filter.

ALWAYS, however, check the adult size of any marine fish you buy. Some of ours max at a foot long, no kidding, and reach that size pretty fast. They catch them as 'babies,' because who can ship a footlong fish? Your dealer or source should be able to tell you adult size. Just be sure to ask. Marine fish also don't go by 'community' or 'aggressive.' A little fish that intends to grow a foot long can get freaky and attack in too small a tank. Plenty of tank room, no problem.

billdogg · 11/04/2019, 02:51 PM

Here's my take on it for you.

I kept a 60g cube (2x2x2) for 22 years. It was a great tank. I used a marineland dual biowheel HOB (hang on back) filter and a canister filter. No skimmer. Lighting was T12 VHO, although of it's last couple years I switched to LED (AI Sol blue).

I used the canister as a place to keep carbon, and a good quantity of live rock rubble to act as biological filtration. I felt I needed to do that because the only rock in the tank was a ~#100 chunk of pumice that I had carved into a reef with swim throughs and caves. I was able to keep pretty much anything I wanted, with the exception of Acropora sp. corals.

It was a great tank. The only reason I got rid of it was to make room for my current DT, a 120g with 40g sump.

You can make this hobby just as easy or as difficult as you would like (or that your wallet will allow)

HTH!

Sk8r · 11/04/2019, 03:37 PM

THings you need to 'try it': a topoff unit with sensor: Hydor makes a cheap one, and if you don't have kids or pets knocking into the sensor, it works fine. This supplies fresh water from a bucket that will keep your salinity steady despite evaporation. Then a pump. Filtration via an actual filter is ok, but decaying gunk can spike your nitrates, which fish don't like much and corals REALLY can't stand. More permanent tanks use about 1-2 lbs of 'live rock ---conditioned!!!---for every gallon in the system. And use not silicate sand, but aragonite, which dissolves into usable minerals, like calcium. ---The live rock and sand ARE a filter, colonized by bacteria that eat up waste. You do a 10% salt-water changeout every week. This keeps your trace elements on track, again, important particularly with corals. And you maintain crabs and snails that eat up waste too.

As you go up toward 30 and 50 gallons, you do well to have a second tank, a sump, where your pump sits and where you have a skimmer, which is a fractionating amino-acid remover that causes 'sea foam' to collect in a cup which you throw out. The bigger your tank, the better that needs to be. If you have nitrate you can't get rid of, a better skimmer is usually the answer. The sump sits in the stand below your tank, which has a 'downflow box,' an arrangement which routes water down to the sump by gravity, and up (by pump) again, cleaned and nice. This, with your skimmer and live rock, completely replace the filter you might use in a freshwater tank. If you want corals, they're not hard (especially some of them, that grow like weeds) but they do require suitable (not cheap) lighting. And the stony varieties will require some more mineral additives. Grow? Oh, yes.

You will also need a bare glass third tank, a quarantine, in which to house new fish before letting them into your tank: wild-caught fish may come in with passengers, and unfortunately, if they get into your tank with your live rock and sand and multiply, they will kill those fish and your other fish. These 'passengers' are too small to see, but will usually break out within a week of observation, so you can treat that fish, save it, and know that there is no more problem before it goes into your real tank. There is also a method of using 2 extra tanks (tank transfer method or ttm) and not medicating. Never, never, never use a medication on your 'real' tank! It will kill the bacteria in your live rock and sand and cause your tank to crash.

You can see you can edge yourself into some complicated operation. I recommend starting small (But quarantine!) and see how much you like it before going into a major investment.

ammia.storey · 11/04/2019, 04:17 PM

Thanks for all the answers you all have give . A bit if the maintenance sounds similar to koi keeping .weekly water changes/tests . Qt all fish and hospital tanks. Chemicals and bio is a no no .
Am going to be starting small but I said that about the pond small didnt last long Haha. . Looks like I'll be trying this out in the next few weeks so be prepared for some silly questions. Looking forward to seeing what can become if it . Cheers

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ammia.storey · 11/06/2019, 10:58 AM

Told you there would be stupid questions on the way . So live sand and live rock in tank for bio and aqua scape . Do I need live rock rubble in filter or i have a mass of al***rog that I use for pond filter and have some spare it's the 40 for ponds but a quick hit with a hammer gets it to the e25 that is used for tanks I have used it in my cold water tanks with good results but would it work the same with saltwater tanks ??

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domb54 · 11/13/2019, 06:58 PM

Patiently wait cragslist out for a steal on a full setup.

hkgar · 11/14/2019, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by domb54

Patiently wait cragslist out for a steal on a full setup.

Or you local reefers forum. I often see fuul setups and other types of equipment at https://www.michiganreefers.com/ . Your state probably has one also.

hkgar · 11/14/2019, 02:27 PM

Be sure to read the stickies at the top of this forum. Particularly this one.

Sk8r · 11/18/2019, 07:57 PM

Koi, eh? There are several of us with ponds or water features.

Understand that you need limestone rock as full of holes as possible for good marine rock, and the bacteria for freshwater are different from marine. Dead coral skeleton also works.

11/03/2019, 04:44 PM	#2
Daddi0 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Redwood City Posts: 1,354	As a first tank I would go with a tank like the Innovative Marine 30L or such. These tanks have a compartment in the back of the tank that you would have your pumps and a Ghost Skimmer if you like. Stay away from the canisters. While cannisters are great on freshwater, we tend to use bacteria in the rocks and sand to remove waste products from saltwater tanks. Of the 8 tanks we have, I like our I.M. 30L and our Coralife Bio-Cube the most. Cheers! Mark __________________ 2x 65g displays with a 30g cryptic refugium and 30g sump - 55g reef 30g Bio-cube reef - I.M. 30g reef - 45g freshwater

11/03/2019, 06:51 PM	#4
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	One doesn't need a sump nor skimmer or anything like that to be successful.. One can easily maintain a saltwater system with nothing more than saltwater, rock, maybe sand ...a powerhead for oxygenation and movement and water changes... __________________ Who me?

11/03/2019, 07:58 PM	#5
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	There are all-in-one's that do well, though spendy (about 300.00). Mcgyvr's right though: we ran a very simple 20g marine tank with a lot of algae and a firefish (3" cigarette shape) on nothing more than a basic light and a Penguin filter. ALWAYS, however, check the adult size of any marine fish you buy. Some of ours max at a foot long, no kidding, and reach that size pretty fast. They catch them as 'babies,' because who can ship a footlong fish? Your dealer or source should be able to tell you adult size. Just be sure to ask. Marine fish also don't go by 'community' or 'aggressive.' A little fish that intends to grow a foot long can get freaky and attack in too small a tank. Plenty of tank room, no problem. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

11/04/2019, 02:51 PM	#6
billdogg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Grove City, Ohio Posts: 10,806	Here's my take on it for you. I kept a 60g cube (2x2x2) for 22 years. It was a great tank. I used a marineland dual biowheel HOB (hang on back) filter and a canister filter. No skimmer. Lighting was T12 VHO, although of it's last couple years I switched to LED (AI Sol blue). I used the canister as a place to keep carbon, and a good quantity of live rock rubble to act as biological filtration. I felt I needed to do that because the only rock in the tank was a ~#100 chunk of pumice that I had carved into a reef with swim throughs and caves. I was able to keep pretty much anything I wanted, with the exception of Acropora sp. corals. It was a great tank. The only reason I got rid of it was to make room for my current DT, a 120g with 40g sump. You can make this hobby just as easy or as difficult as you would like (or that your wallet will allow) HTH! __________________ I'll try to be nice if you try to be smarter! I can't help that I grow older, but you can't make me grow up! Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer

11/04/2019, 03:37 PM	#7
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	THings you need to 'try it': a topoff unit with sensor: Hydor makes a cheap one, and if you don't have kids or pets knocking into the sensor, it works fine. This supplies fresh water from a bucket that will keep your salinity steady despite evaporation. Then a pump. Filtration via an actual filter is ok, but decaying gunk can spike your nitrates, which fish don't like much and corals REALLY can't stand. More permanent tanks use about 1-2 lbs of 'live rock ---conditioned!!!---for every gallon in the system. And use not silicate sand, but aragonite, which dissolves into usable minerals, like calcium. ---The live rock and sand ARE a filter, colonized by bacteria that eat up waste. You do a 10% salt-water changeout every week. This keeps your trace elements on track, again, important particularly with corals. And you maintain crabs and snails that eat up waste too. As you go up toward 30 and 50 gallons, you do well to have a second tank, a sump, where your pump sits and where you have a skimmer, which is a fractionating amino-acid remover that causes 'sea foam' to collect in a cup which you throw out. The bigger your tank, the better that needs to be. If you have nitrate you can't get rid of, a better skimmer is usually the answer. The sump sits in the stand below your tank, which has a 'downflow box,' an arrangement which routes water down to the sump by gravity, and up (by pump) again, cleaned and nice. This, with your skimmer and live rock, completely replace the filter you might use in a freshwater tank. If you want corals, they're not hard (especially some of them, that grow like weeds) but they do require suitable (not cheap) lighting. And the stony varieties will require some more mineral additives. Grow? Oh, yes. You will also need a bare glass third tank, a quarantine, in which to house new fish before letting them into your tank: wild-caught fish may come in with passengers, and unfortunately, if they get into your tank with your live rock and sand and multiply, they will kill those fish and your other fish. These 'passengers' are too small to see, but will usually break out within a week of observation, so you can treat that fish, save it, and know that there is no more problem before it goes into your real tank. There is also a method of using 2 extra tanks (tank transfer method or ttm) and not medicating. Never, never, never use a medication on your 'real' tank! It will kill the bacteria in your live rock and sand and cause your tank to crash. You can see you can edge yourself into some complicated operation. I recommend starting small (But quarantine!) and see how much you like it before going into a major investment. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

11/03/2019, 03:55 PM	#1
ammia.storey Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2019 Posts: 6	Looking at marine tanks Hi in my house we have had cold water fish for as long as I can remember . Me my wife and 6yr daughter have just finished our pond last year which we love spending time at but now want to turn to Marine to bring the hobbie and love of fish in to the front room . We like to do projects together so we would be starting small very basic and building up from there with budget and experience. What are the very very basics for keeping Marine fish ? Do we need sumps or could we get away with canisters for now ? Ect ? I know I'll have opened a can of worms on this one but any help as to get on the first step of this amazing hobbie will be greatly appreciated. Thank you Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

11/03/2019, 06:19 PM	#3
ammia.storey Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2019 Posts: 6	Thanks for that mark I'll have a look at those then . I've got a 100ltr tank at home sat empty and a 4000 canister but could always sell on to help fund the new one like Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

11/04/2019, 04:17 PM	#8
ammia.storey Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2019 Posts: 6	Thanks for all the answers you all have give . A bit if the maintenance sounds similar to koi keeping .weekly water changes/tests . Qt all fish and hospital tanks. Chemicals and bio is a no no . Am going to be starting small but I said that about the pond small didnt last long Haha. . Looks like I'll be trying this out in the next few weeks so be prepared for some silly questions. Looking forward to seeing what can become if it . Cheers Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

11/06/2019, 10:58 AM	#9
ammia.storey Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2019 Posts: 6	Told you there would be stupid questions on the way . So live sand and live rock in tank for bio and aqua scape . Do I need live rock rubble in filter or i have a mass of al***rog that I use for pond filter and have some spare it's the 40 for ponds but a quick hit with a hammer gets it to the e25 that is used for tanks I have used it in my cold water tanks with good results but would it work the same with saltwater tanks ?? Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

11/13/2019, 06:58 PM	#10
domb54 Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: menomonee falls wisconsin Posts: 143	Patiently wait cragslist out for a steal on a full setup.

11/14/2019, 02:27 PM	#12
hkgar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Dewitt MI Posts: 5,051	Be sure to read the stickies at the top of this forum. Particularly this one. __________________ Gary 180 gallon, 40 gallon sump, 3 250 W MH + 4 80W ATI T5's, MTC MVX 36 Skimmer, Apex controller Aquamaxx T-3 CaRx Current Tank Info: A 2 Barred Rabbitfish, Red Head Salon, Yellow/Purple, McMaster Fairy, Possum, 2 Leopard Wrasses, Kole, & Atlantic Blue Tangs, 2 Percula Clown, 3 PJ and 1 Banggai Cardinalfish , Swallowtail, Bellus and Coral Beauty Angels

11/18/2019, 07:57 PM	#13
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Koi, eh? There are several of us with ponds or water features. Understand that you need limestone rock as full of holes as possible for good marine rock, and the bacteria for freshwater are different from marine. Dead coral skeleton also works. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.