Ruby Red Dragonet Breeding Journal

[gogo7]

cool stuff kiz. i'm really impressed with your setup.
i wish there was a plus one button here on rc.
your pics are great.

[kizanne]

Spawn #5 happened 5/17 and for more careless reasons #4 and #5 will be combined to be called #5, I have some larvae that hatched from 4 and #5 is hatching tonight (most likely)

Spawn #6 happened 5/18 (tonight)
Also tonight I found shrimp zoa in the top of the tank which look more than one day old. So I scooped a few up (they should be glass shrimp).
In the Mandarin tank I had a crab spawn, I threw a couple in my plankton tank but left the rest for the Mandies. The male seemed to be picking them off the surface. The female is getting fat again (she had decreased I think I missed a spawn).

So for those keeping up.. Spawn 1, 2 and 3 are dead with #2 making it to 7 days post hatch.

Spawn #4 and 5 are in the same jar and I've added some t-iso and tetra
Spawn #6 is in a cup waiting to hatch
Shrimp spawn in a cup with tetra, t-iso, dun and chlorella tomorrow will add a few psuedo copepods and maybe some dead baby brine to see if the attack it.

LOL more spawn then I know what to do with but it will give me a chance to play around. I think I might throw a few in my psuedo breeding box and see what happens, though don't want to hurt my breeding population.

[kizanne]

Spawn #5 still has several larvae alive. The copepods I put in there seem to be greatly diminished thought I can't say any look like they have eaten. They are in a large glass jar with T-iso, Tetra, and psuedo copepods.

Spawn #6 hatched added to a cup with copepods, rotifers, iso and tetra left from spawn #2.

Spawn #7 (5/19) I missed collecting eggs when they were all together so I have a few eggs and some shrimp zoa together. Don't expect this to go anywhere except for the shrimp maybe.

I also am now leaving my algae (and larvae) rack light on 24 hours so the algae can act as a filter and not have a oxygen drop at night.

They are spawning very regularly so I'll be trying different things. If I can get my T-iso and tetra built up then I may order a large batch of parvocalanus from Reed Mariculture and put in a 10 gallon tank with a few larvae.

[kizanne]

Well I have nothing but larva now as my Spawn #7 has hatched. I have little cups of larva everywhere. I have some that appear to definately be from Spawn #4 because they are in the same cups as Spawn #5 and you can see a difference between the two in development. So we are at 3.5 days post hatch. I can see some of them moving like they are hunting but I think I am really going to need smaller food.

[gogo7]

Originally Posted by kizanne

Well I have nothing but larva now as my Spawn #7 has hatched. I have little cups of larva everywhere. I have some that appear to definately be from Spawn #4 because they are in the same cups as Spawn #5 and you can see a difference between the two in development. So we are at 3.5 days post hatch. I can see some of them moving like they are hunting but I think I am really going to need smaller food.

hey kiz. have you tried ciliates? if you've got rotis, or pods setup, you've probably got ciliates. swimming in the sludge. try some under the scope and look for things that might fit in the mouths of the larvae.

i took yours and luis' advice. glad i did. i setup a separate 1.5 litre container. no air, no heater. temp around 76'. sparingly fed ciliates. put about a dozen in there and they're still alive. lost the rest in the rv just passed 32 hrs.
i like your cup idea. i'm gonna use it for the next clutch. it seems to work better. what temps are you keeping them at?

[kizanne]

Gogo7 I wish I had your cultures going or to have the discipline to keep mine going well.
And I certainly wouldn't call my cups a model. They are mostly a by-product of not being prepared, laziness and being overwhelmed. I do hope to come up a simpler system then feeding 5 times daily (delusional I know).

Spawn #8(5/21)

You can shorten it by skipping to the bold part.
So I have what I call a plankton tank. In reality it is a 65 gallon tank that was my quarantine tank and when I was done with it I through in some Nanno then later some rotifers. Of course that was a bad Idea it only took about 4-6 weeks for the rotifers to out produce the nanno. So it crashed. Eventually the nanno came back. I expected the rotifers would come back and it would be a crash cycle unless I actively managed the rots (which isn't likely to happen). The salinity cycles up and down and the tank only has an airstone and light, no filter. But to my surprise the rotifers didn't come back. I started just throwing things in like tisbe pods, parvo pods, amphipods, pistol shrimp larvae, glass shrimp lavae, crab larvae. On the glass, I can see what my hubby says are munid isopods(good), maybe amphipods. So out of desperation for some smaller food I sucked up some detris off the bottom. While the life isn't as dense as I would like I was excited to find many small moving things (wish I could identify them all) and I also found some tisbe copepods.

So Spawn 4/5 are the 'oldest' still alive. They have reached 4 days post hatch. I have them in a 1/2 gallon mason jar with tetra/iso and psuedo copepods. Though the pods seem to be too big they also seem to be getting less but they didn't seem to be 'hunting' as much. I sucked some liquid out to make room for more. In the process I ended up sucking up a few larvae. I put in several milliliters of detritus from the plankton tank in. I noticed what seemed to be an increased hunting response. I still can't tell if any of the larvae are eating but they seem to like it.

As far as temp. The eggs in plastic cups get put in the parent tank which is around 78 degrees, the others are at room temp which my house is set at 77 degrees but the room might get a little warmer with all the tanks in there and a bay window (which is why it is also the orchid room)

I have enough larvae now that if they are alive this weekend I'll sacrifice one to the scope.

[Code4]

This is all very interesting. I hope someday to have the time to try this with mandarins. I love the peaceful guys.If we lived near each other I would adopt your male. I wish you both luck and will be watching your progress closely.

Shelley

[kizanne]

4.5 days. The larvae seemed more docile this morning so I added a few more milliliters of detritus this morning. The only problem with the detritus (other than ammonia) is that the algae base is nano. The parvo and psuedo copepods as well as the larvae like tetra and T-iso (because they are motile and easier to digest) so my green water will eventually change over to nano. I'll have to figure out how to manage this if they live. And of course I really need to break the plankton tank down and start over with a tetra tank. Though I'm feeling like that tank might be a better mandarin tank because it is taller. And of course pipefish and maybe Kuda's LOL>

[kizanne]

Originally Posted by Code4

This is all very interesting. I hope someday to have the time to try this with mandarins. I love the peaceful guys.If we lived near each other I would adopt your male. I wish you both luck and will be watching your progress closely.

Shelley

Well he's eating the ocean reef nano pellets really well. I'm trying to give him soaked pellets 2x daily, and of course he eats the brine. I am hoping with the enriched pellets he'll be conditioned enough to spawn. Him and the female are behaving more like a pair now then last week. Last week he would chase her and she would have none of it. This week the are swimming together but I'm not seeing ascending. If I was any closer I'd drive him to you. I really want some mandarin eggs but I can't bring myself to just trade him in. I think I missed a spawn though be cause her belly has deflated this week. Last two spawns I don't think were fertile though. I have been feeling like they are going to spawn in the next week or two when all of my resources are stretched trying to work with the ruby reds. And of course my bangaai male has made it to day 5 (which is his longest hold). The Mandarin is the sweetest little boy and he would make a great addition for someone who wants a mandarin that only has to be fed 2x daily and eats other than live food.

[Code4]

Kizanne I sure hope he works out for you as a breeder. They are wonderful. And I would not want to trade him in either if I were you. I am setting up a 140 gallon with a sump soon. I have mine in a 65 gallon as of now. I hatch new brine shrimp daily to feed them in one of Pauls feeders. I am going to seed my new sump with tons of pods. I try to let them feed as naturally as possible.

Are you sure you do not want to make a trip out to see Yellow Stone. :P I sure hope by feeding him the enriched pellets he and the female spawn. Maybe if you set up a feeder?

Shelley

[kizanne]

Yea I need a feeder. But right now hatch brine shrimp everyday is more than I can do with everything else. I actually went back to MBI and looked at my old thread there that I set up for breeding Mandarins. And one of the pictures of the eggs was definitely fertile. I didn't know it then but now that I have watched the Ruby's egg develop I can tell the picture was about 45 minutes to 1.5 hours after spawn. So at least at some point he was fertile. As soon as summer gets here (June 3rd for me) I'm going to have to put more effort into his nutrition and maybe move them to a taller tank.

[Code4]

Seems like he is fertile then. That is great to hear. I will have to pick your head when I get ready to try this for myself. Not sure if I can let my potential babies go to anyone without doing back ground checks first though.

Shelley

[kizanne]

5 days post hatch. I can't tell if they are eating enough. There does seem to be hunting going on but I can't tell if they have full bellies. At 5 days they have to be eating something. I had one die with their mouth open. Is this a sign of anything like sudden fright?

[Code4]

Sudden fright? I have not heard this before. But there is alot I have never heard before. Have you been able to locate other people's information on feeding these tiny babies?

Shelley

[kizanne]

Sudden fright is something I read about over in the clownfish forum. Without proper nutrition then sometimes the larvae just die when scared. It seems mostly to be related to feeding only brine shrimp. I have read alot about feeding Mandarins though most of the info I have access to doesn't come right out and say everything they did. I haven't found anyone who has done the ruby reds. My googling maybe not the best. I have read Matt Pederson's mandarin breeding journal which was here on reef central. I've read some from MBI . I don't have all the links handy but here's one to Wittenrich's article
http://en.microcosmaquariumexplorer....Green_Mandarin

At the bottom he says now they are in the book. He mean figuratively because I bought his breeders book and they aren't literally in the book.

Here's another
http://www.tfhmagazine.com/saltwater...ll-article.htm

Here's one with lots of links at the bottom. I've read quite a few of those.
http://www.marinebreeder.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=128

[kizanne]

Day 6. I am definately noticing they are hunting more when I add insuforia from my plankton tank. I need to try to do that more often I guess. I think I'm down to about 5 larvae. It can be hard to tell in the large jar. I also think they are going to spawn tonight. Girl #2 looks fat. Side note my cardinals still holding too.

[Lrood]

Great work with these! Hoping my pair will spawn someday. I seem to remember reading that Witt found that scooter blennies took ciliates as first food. Wonder if Ruby Reds will need something super small like that.

[kizanne]

Spawn #9 (both girls I think) 5/23
Spawn #8 hatched and returned to parent tank just to see if that works.

There is one larva in the main jar (maybe more) that now has white ring in their eyes this is the furthest development I've seen so far. This should be day 7 which I reached with the last batch but they didn't seem to be as developed. I wonder if having the light on 24/7 has made them develop faster? Jar had a least 2 hydroids which I tried to siphon out. I replace 1/4 of the water today with fresh. I have been adding insuforia from my plankton tank 2x daily lately. Next batch I'll be doing that more often. I will be loading some microscope pictures soon and will love any input on what the heck is in my insuforia. I'll also be isolating (maybe) some of the more interesting looking things to try to grow in larger more reliable numbers for future larva raising. I tested the ammonia Friday or Saturday and less than 0.25 ppm I credit that to the greenwater and lights 24/7. I don't have any air going into this jar which is why I'm doing 24/7 on the lights.

Ken - I definately think they need something smaller than the copepod naupuli.

side note Cardinal is still holding (expecting June 8th). If he lasts I'll start another thread for that adventure. Still have 2 glass shrimp babies.

[kizanne]

Spawn #4/5 are done. They made it to day 7. Seemed to be as far as I can go.

[Code4]

That is sad. But the white around the eyes is encouraging. I think concentrating on a food source might be the best route right now to go. I know next to nothing about what direction to look in though. I just know how depressed I would be to lose the little guys. Looking forward to your photos.

Shelley

[gogo7]

don't worry about it kiz. seven days is good in my books.
you've inspired me to adopt a few of your methods.
i think you're definitely on the right track with the infusoria.
scope pix would be cool.

[kizanne]

Yea. I will try to scope soon. They have spawned a few more times. last hatch I didn't have enough water for how many eggs and the large group must have fowled it. They spawn last night and the night before but right now I've got something (I think a cold) that has me in survival mode. I have coughed so much my diaphram hurts. So I'm just trying to keep the parents fed and live to play another day.

[Code4]

Kiz I hope you feel better soon. There will be new spawns ready for you when you are ready to try again. Hot tea and rest.

Shelley

[Edstewart5]

Oh man, the pictures are really cool. Best of luck with these!

[hotelbravo]

i hope your feeling better