Newbie mistake with live sand

gopackgo93 · 01/30/2020, 11:26 AM

I had some low levels of sand then I stupidly added some live sand on top. Well, I had a massive die off. All corals and snails gone. Fish and hermits ok. Before the die off, corals were growing and thriving

3 months later I am still having issues with keeping snails alive and corals. Fish ok

Tank 75 gallons
Led Current usa lighting
20 gallon sump and refugium
10-20% water change weekly

Parameters:
Salinity 1.024
Temp 79-80
Nitrate <10
Phosphate 0
Nitrite 0
Ammonia 0
pH 8.3
Calcium 390

So I'm looking for opinions of what could be happening and what I can do to fix it

mcgyvr · 01/30/2020, 11:52 AM

Please go into details about the issues you are having with the snails and with the corals..
Nothing in your parameters is an issue.

Knowing about the timespan/death details/percentages/types of corals,etc.. may help provide a better guess.

Michael Hoaster · 01/30/2020, 12:31 PM

Nothing stupid about adding live sand on top of old sand. I've done it without issue. It's a great way to add biodiversity. The answer to your snail die off is likely the hermit crabs. Choose one or the other (Snails are better).

What kind of live sand did you add? How old is your tank? Off the top of my head, maybe adding the sand threw off your parameters enough to upset your corals. Or maybe you introduced a coral pest.

This hobby is all about making mistakes - and learning from them, so don't be too hard on yourself.

Welcome to RC! Lot's of helpful people here. A little more info will help.

gopackgo93 · 01/30/2020, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

Please go into details about the issues you are having with the snails and with the corals..
Nothing in your parameters is an issue.

Knowing about the timespan/death details/percentages/types of corals,etc.. may help provide a better guess.

Sorry, not sure I did this right. With replying. Haha

Anyway. Days after the live sand was placed I started to see the zoas close up, xenia closed, toadstool coral bent over, and the Kenya coral was shrunk.
That week i did a 50% water change.
2 weeks later the corals began to deteriorate and detach.
The snails were popping out of the sand and writhing. The other snails fell off the rock and died within 2-3 weeks as well.
It was at that point that I did another 50% water change. Then I had a nasty clouded water bacteria bloom so I bought a uv sterilizer and cleared it up. Now it's off again.
About 3 weeks about, 2 months after the decimation, I bought 5 snails. All died within a week.
Last week I thought I'd try a simple zoa. The zoa opened twice in a week and has been closed since

Daddi0 · 01/30/2020, 03:12 PM

Sounds like an issue with the new water? Chlorine/chloramine?
Cheers! Mark

djryan2000 · 01/30/2020, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gopackgo93

Sorry, not sure I did this right. With replying. Haha

Anyway. Days after the live sand was placed I started to see the zoas close up, xenia closed, toadstool coral bent over, and the Kenya coral was shrunk.

That week i did a 50% water change.

2 weeks later the corals began to deteriorate and detach.

The snails were popping out of the sand and writhing. The other snails fell off the rock and died within 2-3 weeks as well.

It was at that point that I did another 50% water change. Then I had a nasty clouded water bacteria bloom so I bought a uv sterilizer and cleared it up. Now it's off again.

About 3 weeks about, 2 months after the decimation, I bought 5 snails. All died within a week.

Last week I thought I'd try a simple zoa. The zoa opened twice in a week and has been closed since

Are you using RODI water? Are you testing your salt before adding it?

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mcgyvr · 01/30/2020, 03:27 PM

"Live sand" can most certainly contain quite a bit of "dead/decaying" organic matter and could potentially drive ammonia levels up in a system not capable of mitigating it quickly.

Depending on the amount of sand added I would suspect that a tank of that size shouldn't have an issue with it though.

djryan2000 · 01/30/2020, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daddi0

Sounds like an issue with the new water? Chlorine/chloramine?
Cheers! Mark

May be time for an ICP test for OP

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gopackgo93 · 01/30/2020, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djryan2000

Are you using RODI water? Are you testing your salt before adding it?

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I am not using rodi water. I have a personal well where I'm at. I've had success with just well water. I'm cheap is the problem I'm having with the rodi system haha

What do you mean test your salt?

djryan2000 · 01/30/2020, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gopackgo93

I am not using rodi water. I have a personal well where I'm at. I've had success with just well water. I'm cheap is the problem I'm having with the rodi system haha

What do you mean test your salt?

That’s most likely the source of your problem. I’d switch to RODI water.

Typically you want to test your salt before you do a water change to make sure the parameters are good. Sometimes you get a bad batch with, for example, crazy high magnesium which can mess up your inverts.

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CK00020 · 01/30/2020, 04:56 PM

Any chance you are in Wisconsin, we have had a crazy amount of precipitation these last couple years swelling the water table and doing some weird stuff to private wells. I would invest in a rodi I am on well water and would never think of not using one

CK00020 · 01/30/2020, 05:10 PM

Or maybe a chunk of rust fell off the inside of your well casing, you just never know

Daddi0 · 01/30/2020, 05:12 PM

I still find it more than a coincidence that after a water change it sounds like it got worse, much worse.

gopackgo93 · 01/30/2020, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CK00020

Any chance you are in Wisconsin, we have had a crazy amount of precipitation these last couple years swelling the water table and doing some weird stuff to private wells. I would invest in a rodi I am on well water and would never think of not using one

Fascinating that you brought this up. I live in Washington and when this die off happened, we were in a dryish spell. When that happens we notice more sediment in our water in the house.

Coincidentally I was just in Wisconsin visiting family and going to my first game at Lambeau!

gopackgo93 · 01/30/2020, 05:32 PM

I think it is time for a RODI system. Any suggestions? I'm kind of a cheap ba$t@rd

djryan2000 · 01/30/2020, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gopackgo93

I think it is time for a RODI system. Any suggestions? I'm kind of a cheap ba$t@rd

Your LFS probably sells RODI water by the gallon. If you don’t have a LFS - Maybe a cheap RODI like this one on amazon - Aquatic Life RO Buddie Four Stage Reverse Osmosis System with Color Changing Mixed Bed Deionization Cartridge https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00204CQF6..._CJ2mEbPEQSKE3

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Anemone · 01/30/2020, 06:18 PM

When you say you added "live sand," what do you mean? Sand from another running system? Sand from the beach? The bags of "dormant bacteria" sand labeled live sand?

Kevin

CK00020 · 01/30/2020, 07:14 PM

Water table fluctuations will do that sometimes, you can test your water with a 10 dollar TDS meter from Amazon. You want to be 0 or real close my well water is like 40, our municipal water tests around 150 neither is suitable for a reef.
The Packers had a great year, I sure did not expect them to go as far as they did, a couple more pieces on offense hope u had a good time at Lambeau Go Pack Go

01/30/2020, 11:26 AM	#1
gopackgo93 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2020 Posts: 11	Newbie mistake with live sand I had some low levels of sand then I stupidly added some live sand on top. Well, I had a massive die off. All corals and snails gone. Fish and hermits ok. Before the die off, corals were growing and thriving 3 months later I am still having issues with keeping snails alive and corals. Fish ok Tank 75 gallons Led Current usa lighting 20 gallon sump and refugium 10-20% water change weekly Parameters: Salinity 1.024 Temp 79-80 Nitrate <10 Phosphate 0 Nitrite 0 Ammonia 0 pH 8.3 Calcium 390 So I'm looking for opinions of what could be happening and what I can do to fix it

01/30/2020, 11:52 AM	#2
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	Please go into details about the issues you are having with the snails and with the corals.. Nothing in your parameters is an issue. Knowing about the timespan/death details/percentages/types of corals,etc.. may help provide a better guess. __________________ Who me?

01/30/2020, 12:31 PM	#3
Michael Hoaster Registered Seaweedist Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 5,807	Nothing stupid about adding live sand on top of old sand. I've done it without issue. It's a great way to add biodiversity. The answer to your snail die off is likely the hermit crabs. Choose one or the other (Snails are better). What kind of live sand did you add? How old is your tank? Off the top of my head, maybe adding the sand threw off your parameters enough to upset your corals. Or maybe you introduced a coral pest. This hobby is all about making mistakes - and learning from them, so don't be too hard on yourself. Welcome to RC! Lot's of helpful people here. A little more info will help. __________________ As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance, our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018

01/30/2020, 03:12 PM	#5
Daddi0 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Redwood City Posts: 1,354	Sounds like an issue with the new water? Chlorine/chloramine? Cheers! Mark __________________ 2x 65g displays with a 30g cryptic refugium and 30g sump - 55g reef 30g Bio-cube reef - I.M. 30g reef - 45g freshwater

01/30/2020, 03:27 PM	#7
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	"Live sand" can most certainly contain quite a bit of "dead/decaying" organic matter and could potentially drive ammonia levels up in a system not capable of mitigating it quickly. Depending on the amount of sand added I would suspect that a tank of that size shouldn't have an issue with it though. __________________ Who me?

01/30/2020, 04:56 PM	#11
CK00020 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Wi Posts: 61	Any chance you are in Wisconsin, we have had a crazy amount of precipitation these last couple years swelling the water table and doing some weird stuff to private wells. I would invest in a rodi I am on well water and would never think of not using one

01/30/2020, 05:10 PM	#12
CK00020 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Wi Posts: 61	Or maybe a chunk of rust fell off the inside of your well casing, you just never know

01/30/2020, 05:12 PM	#13
Daddi0 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Redwood City Posts: 1,354	I still find it more than a coincidence that after a water change it sounds like it got worse, much worse. __________________ 2x 65g displays with a 30g cryptic refugium and 30g sump - 55g reef 30g Bio-cube reef - I.M. 30g reef - 45g freshwater

01/30/2020, 05:32 PM	#15
gopackgo93 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2020 Posts: 11	I think it is time for a RODI system. Any suggestions? I'm kind of a cheap ba$t@rd

01/30/2020, 06:18 PM	#17
Anemone Cloning Around Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Valencia, California Posts: 25,267	When you say you added "live sand," what do you mean? Sand from another running system? Sand from the beach? The bags of "dormant bacteria" sand labeled live sand? Kevin __________________ Back in the pool, swimming with the sharks... Current Tank Info: Red Sea 425XL w/Kessil AP700, Vertex 180i Skimmer, 2 x Vortech MP40s

01/30/2020, 07:14 PM	#18
CK00020 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Wi Posts: 61	Water table fluctuations will do that sometimes, you can test your water with a 10 dollar TDS meter from Amazon. You want to be 0 or real close my well water is like 40, our municipal water tests around 150 neither is suitable for a reef. The Packers had a great year, I sure did not expect them to go as far as they did, a couple more pieces on offense hope u had a good time at Lambeau Go Pack Go