Treating with Vitamin C - Page 21

AeroD79 · 01/21/2008, 03:13 AM

Btw you guys are keeping me awake and paranoid hahahah

madadi · 01/21/2008, 03:17 AM

regardless if the magnesium levels hint that calcium ascorbate is OK to use, i would prefer to use sodium ascorbate. if my calcium levels are already at ideal levels, how much vitamin C i can add would be limited because i don't want calcium to be raised even further.

sodium ascorbate and calcium chloride is a nice combination because its ionic balance (Na+, Cl-). salinity will rise but not enough to be noticed if your doing biweekly water changes where you adjust the salinity accordingly.

madadi · 01/21/2008, 03:21 AM

good job AeroD79 i figured your magnesium was up there. thats what i have mine at so i can maintain higher calcium levels.

i bet Myrddraal magnesium level is around 1000! it should be around 1300. anyone placing bets? lol

jdieck · 01/21/2008, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by madadi
regardless if the magnesium levels hint that calcium ascorbate is OK to use, i would prefer to use sodium ascorbate. if my calcium levels are already at ideal levels, how much vitamin C i can add would be limited because i don't want calcium to be raised even further.

sodium ascorbate and calcium chloride is a nice combination because its ionic balance (Na+, Cl-). salinity will rise but not enough to be noticed if your doing biweekly water changes where you adjust the salinity accordingly.

Every 1000 mg of calcium ascorbate will increase calcium in 90 gal of system water by less than 1/3 of a ppm. Only about 10% of the amount added of calcium ascorbate is actually calcium or around 100 milligrams for each 1000 mg. that is 1 ppm in 100 liters or 1 ppm in 25 gallons or 1/4 ppm in 100 gallons.

AeroD79 · 01/21/2008, 03:29 AM

It sounds like if you have a non SPS/LPS tank Sodium Ascorbate is a better idea so it will not disturb the ionic balance in the tank.

In my case then theoretically it should be OK especially that ill be dosing lower to just to give my zoo a kick.

ok sleepy time =)

iairj84 · 01/21/2008, 03:24 PM

Have any of you noticed an increase in your shrimps molting?

I added a peppermint shrimp to my tank and he molted the very next day (not too uncommon but still a little odd nonetheless.) The thing that was really odd to me was that my cleaner had molted just a few days before I started with the C and that was a week ago, and he molted again just last night!

Seems a little soon although I know shrimp will generally only molt when water conditions are good and they're happy... Interesting.

RandalB · 01/21/2008, 06:04 PM

Hey Jeni,
If I order the Sodium, What's a good dose for a 24 Aquapod?

I likes me a good experiment...

RandalB

Pufferpunk · 01/21/2008, 08:49 PM

Heya Randal, Welcome to the "C" side! Be sure to read this thoroughly, before dosing. Everything you need to know is in there:
http://www.livingreefs.com/forums/sa...vitamin-c.html

Be sure to take some "before" pictures.

cr8signs · 01/21/2008, 09:58 PM

Been dosing for 2 weeks now. Only 1000mg per day, 100 gal tank. All softies look good except 1 rock of hairy mushrooms are bleaching, but other hairy mushrooms that were struggling, are growing and showing better color. ONE BIG DIFFERENCE, all my algae is dying. Hair, bubble, bryopsis,(not sure if that is it) nasty stuff is going fast. What I think it is, my vit c tablets are from walgreens and they have magnesium stearate in them. My mag is now 1600. I don't want that any higher so I will have to get some pure vit c. and dose with the old when I need to raise mag.

Pufferpunk · 01/21/2008, 11:55 PM

Says in that article, something about helping kill off algae. I wish my C would get here already!

Edit: Just checked the tracking--it's arriving tomorrow!

TK3 · 01/22/2008, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pufferpunk
Same here. Now that I've got some buffer, I'm upping the dose.

I can't imagine I'd have a pH issue when topping off with Kalk, right? Going to start dosing some C enhanced RO beginning tomorrow. Have a 3rd pump available - might as well use it. Will take pics.

TK3 · 01/22/2008, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pufferpunk
Guess I should have ordered that instead but how much salt could really be in there?

As far as my pH, it's OK now that I added the Kent buffer, but my alk is now 15. I'm going to do a WC & stop adding the C, until I get the bufffered one.

Dose Kalk instead of Kent's buffer. Which are you using? SuperBuffer dKH?

jdieck · 01/22/2008, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cr8signs
Been dosing for 2 weeks now. Only 1000mg per day, 100 gal tank. All softies look good except 1 rock of hairy mushrooms are bleaching, but other hairy mushrooms that were struggling, are growing and showing better color. ONE BIG DIFFERENCE, all my algae is dying. Hair, bubble, bryopsis,(not sure if that is it) nasty stuff is going fast. What I think it is, my vit c tablets are from walgreens and they have magnesium stearate in them. My mag is now 1600. I don't want that any higher so I will have to get some pure vit c. and dose with the old when I need to raise mag.

Can you guys test for nitrates before during and after the treatment?
I have a hunch that one of the decomposition substances from vitamin C could be some form of sugar or glucose that may increase the bacterial population (that may explain some of the blooms some of you are seeing). The end result might be something similar to adding vodka or sugar which in turn may tend to reduce nitrates.

Myrddraal · 01/22/2008, 12:43 AM

Here's an update from me. My total system volume is about 85 gallons. After the ~20 gallons of water change and two days of not adding any Ca ascorbate my water is clear again. My red brittle star is the only definite fatality so far, and I'm worried about my montipora frag. I'm also down to 4 sad looking blue zoos, they haven't opened since I stopped dosing the vitamin C

. The molly I'm considering as a suicide, since it was doing fine until it jumped into the overflow and found a powerhead in my sump.

I just tested Alk, Mg, and Ca, here are the levels:
Alk: 11.2 dKh, 4 meg/L, SeaChem
Ca: 400 ppm, Red Sea
Mg: 1400 ppm, Red sea

I haven't tested nitrAtes today, however when I tested them yesterday they were 0 ppm, API, and my SeaChem Ammo badge has stayed at 0 throughout this issue.

I've added 34 ml each of DIY two-part #1 and #2 today.

I'm thinking that my troubles were caused by low Alk (it was 7 dKh two days ago), and possibly enhanced by the extra Ca carbonate in the water, and not by the vitamin C. Is it possible that the Ca Carbonate caused my Alk to crash?

Pufferpunk · 01/22/2008, 12:50 AM

I don't use kalk. Unfortunately, the buffer also raised the alk to 15, so I did a 20% WC & am waiting for the buffered C.

Pufferpunk · 01/22/2008, 12:55 AM

I was actually going to ask you all about your nitrate. Mine went down from 5 to almost undectable now.

madadi · 01/22/2008, 01:13 AM

in order for calcium carbonate to be precipitated in the watter column, sometimes its because calcium bicarbonate has been converted into it. yes, anything that reduces bicarbonates will reduce alkalinity.

jdieck · 01/22/2008, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Myrddraal
Is it possible that the Ca Carbonate caused my Alk to crash?

No; calcium ascorbate does not contain calcium carbonate and as I mentioned before the amount of calcium ion it provides is neglegible (1000 mg will increase 50 gallons by only 1/2 of a ppm).
I am more inclined to think that the L-ascorbate, being a weak sugar may have fed a bacterial bloom. Excesive bacterial activity consumes alkalinity.

Fishcrazy06 · 01/22/2008, 04:40 AM

I am almost convinced to start doing this! However, I dose my system on a daily basis with Kalk. I use tsp per gallon of water in my ATO which is gravity fed. Anyone else use this method of dosing their tank and also use the Vit C? I am thinking of trying this but want too see if anyone else is using kalk!

Eric

madadi · 01/22/2008, 05:28 AM

ebrabender: i use kalk. at first alk dropped, but i started to use the buffered vitamin C and it was much better. start off slow like its recommended.

Jeni, 0 nitrates huh? thats a real nice side affect if its caused by the vitamin C. maybe due to increased bacterial growth? how long ago did you notice this?
one way to visualize increased nitrate reduction, is if you notice more bubbles forming inside your sand at the edge of the sand bed next to the glass. i think its nitrogen gas left behind by the bacteria that used up the oxygen for energy.

reggiepe · 01/22/2008, 06:42 AM

I just did a dose last evening (I wanted to ride along as well). I purchased the Sodium Ascorbate from iHerb. I dosed my 75gal with a tsp and I think it induced a spawn event with a rock anemone. Within 15 minutes it just started spewing this white stringy stuff (which I believe were eggs with the way the fish were trying to eat it all up) Approximately 2.5 hours later it seemed to have stopped. I could barely see through the water with just the actinics on. I turned the main lights on and everything seemed fine....polyps all opened, fish were happy, nothing adversely affected. I threw a PolyPad in the sump along with a 1 lb. of carbon. This morning the water was crystal clear. I don't know, could've been induced by it, could've been a coincidence. I just wanted to add my first experience.Here is a link to pics that I posted in the Anemone forum....

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1300276

Fishcrazy06 · 01/22/2008, 07:34 AM

What buffered vitamin c did you get? Have a link by chance? Thanks!

Eric

madadi · 01/22/2008, 08:26 AM

Sodium Ascorbate from iHerb.com

Jeff · 01/22/2008, 01:13 PM

I just ordered the buffered C from iHerb. I have been having a ph problem even with dosing kalk so we will see if this helps.
Thanks for all of the info Puffy

sellout007 · 01/22/2008, 01:13 PM

So whats the verdict then on the calcium ascorbate? Ok for one type of a tank, and not for another?

01/21/2008, 03:13 AM	#501
AeroD79 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Campbell Posts: 1,784	Btw you guys are keeping me awake and paranoid hahahah __________________ /\_/\ * * ~ Current Tank Info: retired.

01/21/2008, 03:17 AM	#502
madadi ReefOG Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Morton grove, IL Posts: 3,976	regardless if the magnesium levels hint that calcium ascorbate is OK to use, i would prefer to use sodium ascorbate. if my calcium levels are already at ideal levels, how much vitamin C i can add would be limited because i don't want calcium to be raised even further. sodium ascorbate and calcium chloride is a nice combination because its ionic balance (Na+, Cl-). salinity will rise but not enough to be noticed if your doing biweekly water changes where you adjust the salinity accordingly. __________________ -~adrian~- LETS TRADE YUMAS Current Tank Info: Glass box.

01/21/2008, 03:21 AM	#503
madadi ReefOG Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Morton grove, IL Posts: 3,976	good job AeroD79 i figured your magnesium was up there. thats what i have mine at so i can maintain higher calcium levels. i bet Myrddraal magnesium level is around 1000! it should be around 1300. anyone placing bets? lol __________________ -~adrian~- LETS TRADE YUMAS Current Tank Info: Glass box.

01/21/2008, 03:29 AM	#505
AeroD79 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Campbell Posts: 1,784	It sounds like if you have a non SPS/LPS tank Sodium Ascorbate is a better idea so it will not disturb the ionic balance in the tank. In my case then theoretically it should be OK especially that ill be dosing lower to just to give my zoo a kick. ok sleepy time =) __________________ /\_/\ * * ~ Current Tank Info: retired.

01/21/2008, 03:24 PM	#506
iairj84 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Chico, CA Posts: 570	Have any of you noticed an increase in your shrimps molting? I added a peppermint shrimp to my tank and he molted the very next day (not too uncommon but still a little odd nonetheless.) The thing that was really odd to me was that my cleaner had molted just a few days before I started with the C and that was a week ago, and he molted again just last night! Seems a little soon although I know shrimp will generally only molt when water conditions are good and they're happy... Interesting. __________________ PBITAWA! Current Tank Info: 90 gallon with 30 gallon sump/fuge. 2x250watt 14k USHIO halides, ACjr network connected, 2x K4's

01/21/2008, 06:04 PM	#507
RandalB Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Cedar Lake, IN Posts: 1,958	Hey Jeni, If I order the Sodium, What's a good dose for a 24 Aquapod? I likes me a good experiment... RandalB __________________ Have Membrane, Will Travel... Current Tank Info: 32 Biocube, 30 Half circle, 120 in wall coming soon all reefs

01/21/2008, 08:49 PM	#508
Pufferpunk Moved On Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Franklin Park, IL Posts: 21,027	Heya Randal, Welcome to the "C" side! Be sure to read this thoroughly, before dosing. Everything you need to know is in there: http://www.livingreefs.com/forums/sa...vitamin-c.html Be sure to take some "before" pictures.

01/21/2008, 09:58 PM	#509
cr8signs Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 37	Been dosing for 2 weeks now. Only 1000mg per day, 100 gal tank. All softies look good except 1 rock of hairy mushrooms are bleaching, but other hairy mushrooms that were struggling, are growing and showing better color. ONE BIG DIFFERENCE, all my algae is dying. Hair, bubble, bryopsis,(not sure if that is it) nasty stuff is going fast. What I think it is, my vit c tablets are from walgreens and they have magnesium stearate in them. My mag is now 1600. I don't want that any higher so I will have to get some pure vit c. and dose with the old when I need to raise mag.

01/21/2008, 11:55 PM	#510
Pufferpunk Moved On Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Franklin Park, IL Posts: 21,027	Says in that article, something about helping kill off algae. I wish my C would get here already! Edit: Just checked the tracking--it's arriving tomorrow! Last edited by Pufferpunk; 01/22/2008 at 12:13 AM.

01/22/2008, 12:43 AM	#514
Myrddraal Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 431	Here's an update from me. My total system volume is about 85 gallons. After the ~20 gallons of water change and two days of not adding any Ca ascorbate my water is clear again. My red brittle star is the only definite fatality so far, and I'm worried about my montipora frag. I'm also down to 4 sad looking blue zoos, they haven't opened since I stopped dosing the vitamin C . The molly I'm considering as a suicide, since it was doing fine until it jumped into the overflow and found a powerhead in my sump. I just tested Alk, Mg, and Ca, here are the levels: Alk: 11.2 dKh, 4 meg/L, SeaChem Ca: 400 ppm, Red Sea Mg: 1400 ppm, Red sea I haven't tested nitrAtes today, however when I tested them yesterday they were 0 ppm, API, and my SeaChem Ammo badge has stayed at 0 throughout this issue. I've added 34 ml each of DIY two-part #1 and #2 today. I'm thinking that my troubles were caused by low Alk (it was 7 dKh two days ago), and possibly enhanced by the extra Ca carbonate in the water, and not by the vitamin C. Is it possible that the Ca Carbonate caused my Alk to crash? __________________ ~Jayson

01/22/2008, 12:50 AM	#515
Pufferpunk Moved On Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Franklin Park, IL Posts: 21,027	I don't use kalk. Unfortunately, the buffer also raised the alk to 15, so I did a 20% WC & am waiting for the buffered C.

01/22/2008, 12:55 AM	#516
Pufferpunk Moved On Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Franklin Park, IL Posts: 21,027	I was actually going to ask you all about your nitrate. Mine went down from 5 to almost undectable now.

01/22/2008, 01:13 AM	#517
madadi ReefOG Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Morton grove, IL Posts: 3,976	in order for calcium carbonate to be precipitated in the watter column, sometimes its because calcium bicarbonate has been converted into it. yes, anything that reduces bicarbonates will reduce alkalinity. __________________ -~adrian~- LETS TRADE YUMAS Current Tank Info: Glass box.

01/22/2008, 04:40 AM	#519
Fishcrazy06 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,568	I am almost convinced to start doing this! However, I dose my system on a daily basis with Kalk. I use tsp per gallon of water in my ATO which is gravity fed. Anyone else use this method of dosing their tank and also use the Vit C? I am thinking of trying this but want too see if anyone else is using kalk! Eric

01/22/2008, 05:28 AM	#520
madadi ReefOG Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Morton grove, IL Posts: 3,976	ebrabender: i use kalk. at first alk dropped, but i started to use the buffered vitamin C and it was much better. start off slow like its recommended. Jeni, 0 nitrates huh? thats a real nice side affect if its caused by the vitamin C. maybe due to increased bacterial growth? how long ago did you notice this? one way to visualize increased nitrate reduction, is if you notice more bubbles forming inside your sand at the edge of the sand bed next to the glass. i think its nitrogen gas left behind by the bacteria that used up the oxygen for energy. __________________ -~adrian~- LETS TRADE YUMAS Current Tank Info: Glass box.

01/22/2008, 06:42 AM	#521
reggiepe Seriously? Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Newburg, Pennsylvania Posts: 332	I just did a dose last evening (I wanted to ride along as well). I purchased the Sodium Ascorbate from iHerb. I dosed my 75gal with a tsp and I think it induced a spawn event with a rock anemone. Within 15 minutes it just started spewing this white stringy stuff (which I believe were eggs with the way the fish were trying to eat it all up) Approximately 2.5 hours later it seemed to have stopped. I could barely see through the water with just the actinics on. I turned the main lights on and everything seemed fine....polyps all opened, fish were happy, nothing adversely affected. I threw a PolyPad in the sump along with a 1 lb. of carbon. This morning the water was crystal clear. I don't know, could've been induced by it, could've been a coincidence. I just wanted to add my first experience.Here is a link to pics that I posted in the Anemone forum.... http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1300276 __________________ Rich Current Tank(s) Info: 75 mixed Reef, 6 x 54 ATI T5, ReefBrite Blue LED, (2) Ecotech MP40, (2) Ecotech MP10, 15 gallon sump, Bermuda Rogue Skimmer, 500ml Bio pellet Reactor.......30 Breeder, Current NEP w/ ATI bulbs, 10 gallon sump, Eshopps Skimmer, CPR Aquafuge w/ cheato........28 JBJ CF Nano......yep, that's it.....but it still isn't enough :-)

01/22/2008, 07:34 AM	#522
Fishcrazy06 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,568	What buffered vitamin c did you get? Have a link by chance? Thanks! Eric

01/22/2008, 08:26 AM	#523
madadi ReefOG Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Morton grove, IL Posts: 3,976	Sodium Ascorbate from iHerb.com __________________ -~adrian~- LETS TRADE YUMAS Current Tank Info: Glass box.

01/22/2008, 01:13 PM	#524
Jeff Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 11,907	I just ordered the buffered C from iHerb. I have been having a ph problem even with dosing kalk so we will see if this helps. Thanks for all of the info Puffy __________________ Always remember.... any time you reef, you also reef with every reefer that reefer has reefed with. Mitch 2/18/10 IWNFT343F Current Tank Info: Innovative Marine 20

01/22/2008, 01:13 PM	#525
sellout007 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Plainfield, IL Posts: 4,402	So whats the verdict then on the calcium ascorbate? Ok for one type of a tank, and not for another?