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Unread 04/18/2017, 04:21 PM   #226
MNFishGuy
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Hello all, I'm planning on keeping mushrooms and other softies in a 29g tank. The tank is lighted by a single Mars Aqua unit that puts out 160watts. The tank is 18" deep and the light is 12" above the water. How bright should I adjust the light? I originally had the whites on 100% and the Blues on 75% and the mushrooms, sympodium, and frogspawn were doing good for a while, but my mushrooms have started to "throw up" their guts and the frogspawns tentacles don't come out more than a millimeter now, and the sympodium does not open. Any help? I'm running the lights at 50% for whites and 25% for blues now but nothing is improving in the week I've toned down the lighting, any help please?


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Unread 04/18/2017, 05:45 PM   #227
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First I'd suggest you reverse your power settings. More blue and less white. A 2:1 ratio is good, like 60% blue and 30% white. I run my frag tank light at 90% blue and 10% white and the corals do just fine. They do better with blue light than they do with white. If you want, I'd be willing to explain why, but it has been written about in this forum more than a couple of times.

How long are your lights on?

But there is a very serious possibility that light is not your problem. That are your water parameters?
temperature?
salinity?
ammonia?
nitrates?
pH?
alk?


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Unread 04/18/2017, 06:15 PM   #228
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Lights are on 12 hours a day. 8am-8pm. Temp is 80 degrees Fahrenheit. Salinity is a tad north of 32. SG is 1.024. Ammonia reads 0ppm, nitrates are at 0ppm, pH is 8.0, alk is 7dKH


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Unread 04/19/2017, 04:27 AM   #229
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OK, then try the light changes I suggested, more blue, less white and see if that helps.


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Unread 04/19/2017, 06:02 AM   #230
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Ok. Thank you


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Unread 04/19/2017, 07:29 AM   #231
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This is just my attempt to run a basic list of the common black box led fixtures available as of this date.

The range of more inexpensive or economical ‘black box’ fixtures runs from very basic $100 units to $350 units with lot of features (even better looking cases than the basic black box). The name ‘black box’ refers to the fact that the case is just a rectangular box and not exactly aesthetically pleasing. That's OK inside a canopy, but some may not care for the look so much when it's just sitting on the tank. Most are either steel or aluminum (better) and painted or powder coated (better).

To be sure, I have missed or left out some brands here. This isn’t an effort to review every brand, just to give some basic understanding of the features available and some basic costs. Two features I didn’t cover are how many power cords each fixture uses, some have 1 and some have 2. Or the fact that basic fixtures have manual only controls, but those with more features may have remote controls, or wifi, or apps.

MarsAqua ($100): The case is the very definition of a black box. It is the least expensive and has the fewest features, 2 channels of leds, one blue & violet and the other all white with a couple of red and green tossed in. It has 2 manual dimmer knobs and no timers. As with all the true black box fixtures, it uses Bridgelux or Epistar leds. They work just fine and they cost less than Cree leds. Each channel also has a manual dimmer to control the intensity of the light. They also drive their leds at a 15% to 20% lower power level than all the others. So it doesn’t produce as intense a light as the others do, but it’s adequate for 24” deep tanks. It comes with a hanging kit but no legs or rear bracket mount. SB Reef Lights ($140) has a very similar version with legs and run at higher power levels equal to all the other brands other than MarsAqua.

Reef Breeders SuperLux and SB Reef Light ($200) are better fixtures that are almost the same but have built-in timers and digital dimmers with a remote control and both have adjustable legs. There are Viparspectra and Galaxyhydro brands (various sizes and prices) that are just like these Reef Breeders SuperLux fixture, but they don't have legs.

A better looking version of the 3 above is the OceanRevive T237B ($200). I own one of these. It's well made with an aluminum case, good fans and heat sinks. Like the RB SuperLux above, it has built-in timers and digital dimmers and adjustable legs. But instead of the standard black box case, it has a more modern looking case that is thinner and the upper surface is curved at the front and back edges so the top curves down to meet with the bottom surface. The spread of leds in this fixture is better as well.

If you like the idea of having a sunrise/sunset/moonlight controller and a standard black box case (with rounded corners), look at the Euphotica led ($265). Or the SB Reef Light version in a standard 30” long black box with legs ($400). They look to be very similar to the EverGrow made Reef Breeders Photon original design (not to be confused with the Photon V2 which is a much nicer fixture).

Probably the least expensive Chinese made fixture that comes in a much better looking case is the Reef Breeders Photon V2 ($340) and the EverGrow version (common outside the US). This is what I have over my display tanks now. It's only 1" thick, very streamline and modern looking and has adjustable legs. It also has lots of extra features that cost more, but the light for the tank is about the same (actually, a little better) than all the true black box fixtures as it uses 3 and 5 watt leds by Cree and OSRAM. It has the sunrise/sunset controller, but it also is the least expensive fixture to have 6 channels of led control (a channel for each color of led) that can ramp up & down separate from each other. This gives great control of the exact color in the aquarium, if that’s important to you? Just to be clear, your corals are happy with lots of blue, half as much white and maybe a dash of red.


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Last edited by Ron Reefman; 12/06/2017 at 06:21 AM.
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Unread 05/24/2017, 03:34 AM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Reefman View Post
I really don't see led longevity being an issue. I have 2 fixtures that have been running solid for 6+ years with no issues ate 2.2 watts per led. And that is what every other black box led fixture runs at 2.2 watts/led rather than 1.8 watts for MarsAqua. And they don't run more leds either, theirs is like every other 16" black box with 55 leds.

That's why I said it's a mystery to me... and I guess it is to you as well.


I have been running 3 hydra 56. I have the same issue. Lights will shut off because of heat (or something) I'm only at 50% or less on ALL my channels


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Unread 05/26/2017, 03:42 PM   #233
Ron Reefman
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Originally Posted by Pdisner View Post
I have been running 3 hydra 56. I have the same issue. Lights will shut off because of heat (or something) I'm only at 50% or less on ALL my channels
I'm not that familiar with AI fixtures. Does yours have fans? Do the run... ever? If you have fans, and they run, you shouldn't have heat issues. Have you ever vacuumed or blown out the inside of the fixture through the vent holes? It's unlikely, but it could be clogged with dust?

IMHO, if you are having a heat issue with your leds, you need to have a conversation with AI... or is it Eco Tech now? I'd give their customer service a call ASAP.


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Unread 06/01/2017, 03:06 PM   #234
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Can anyone give me some advice on what type of LED light I would need to get so that I can successfully keep an RBTA in my aquarium? I was looking at 21LEDUSA's 30" 50/50 Reefbar but I'm not sure if that would be sufficient or not as I keep reading that RBTA's prefer more actinic lighting? Aquarium specs: 34 gallon column with dimensions of 30" x 18" x 16".


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Unread 06/02/2017, 10:40 AM   #235
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j.falk, almost any led, t5 or MH lighting system should be enough to keep a RBTA in an 16" deep tank, even a Current Orbit 0.5 watt fixture... well, it would be iffy.

I believe the 21leduse Reefbar Pro uses 3 watt leds and it should make more than enough PAR for a RBTA. The question then is, how many will you need to cover the 18" front to back dimension of your tank. My best guess would be two. I'm considering buying 2 of these to add on to my Reef Breeders Photon V2 fixture. Not because I need the extra PAR, but more for ascetic purposes, adding white to the front and blue to the back of the tank.

However, if you are asking about the standard/basic Reefbar strip, it uses much weaker leds (I think 0.3 or 0.5 watts) and I have serious doubts that it will produce enough PAR.

I don't think any of the 16" black box fixtures, or even the 16" high end fixtures will cover your 30" length. But I think a few make 24" fixtures which should work. I know Reef Breeders has a Photon V2 that is 24", but it has a lot of extra features that drive up the price and you may not want them. However, two of the 16" fixtures set over the tank perpendicular to the length of the tank would be WAY more than enough light. The MarsAqua is less than $100 each.

Good luck.


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Unread 06/02/2017, 12:11 PM   #236
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Thanks Ron - I appreciate the advice. I was indeed referring to the Reefbar Pro. I forgot to clarify that in my original post. I'm looking for something that will put off enough light to meet the requirements to care for the RBTA but also something that doesn't generate a lot of heat since the aquarium will be located in my small home office room. I'd been considering the MarsAqua lights for quite awhile now until I read up on the Reefbars and how they don't use/need fans...so I'm assuming they run cooler than other LED fixtures.


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Unread 06/02/2017, 04:02 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by j.falk View Post
Thanks Ron - I appreciate the advice. I was indeed referring to the Reefbar Pro. I forgot to clarify that in my original post. I'm looking for something that will put off enough light to meet the requirements to care for the RBTA but also something that doesn't generate a lot of heat since the aquarium will be located in my small home office room. I'd been considering the MarsAqua lights for quite awhile now until I read up on the Reefbars and how they don't use/need fans...so I'm assuming they run cooler than other LED fixtures.
Many led fixtures (especially newer ones) have fans, but only need or use them when the fixture is run close to full power. My Reef Breeders Photon V2 has 88 leds and half are 3 watts and the other half are 5 watts and I run my white channel at 40% and two blue channels at 90% and the 4 fans never turn on. If I switch to the 'SUNNY' mode which is 100% on all 6 channels the fans kick on after a few minutes.

The back side of the Reefbar Pro led strip is really a heat sink and it does get warm but not hot.


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Unread 06/02/2017, 07:04 PM   #238
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Quote:
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Many led fixtures (especially newer ones) have fans, but only need or use them when the fixture is run close to full power. My Reef Breeders Photon V2 has 88 leds and half are 3 watts and the other half are 5 watts and I run my white channel at 40% and two blue channels at 90% and the 4 fans never turn on. If I switch to the 'SUNNY' mode which is 100% on all 6 channels the fans kick on after a few minutes.

The back side of the Reefbar Pro led strip is really a heat sink and it does get warm but not hot.
Ah okay. That makes sense. I thought the fans were there because all of them ran hot no matter what percentage they were set at. Thank you for clarifying that. It really helps me understand how these lights work now. Much appreciated!


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Unread 06/03/2017, 12:24 AM   #239
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I have a new fixture from ReeFi-Lab and a beta test fixture from another company that both have fans that you can control the temperature the fans turn on at low speed, and an upper temp that the fans will run at full speed. One fixture the single fan barely runs and the other fixture the fans have never turned on as temps never even get close to the minimum.


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Unread 06/14/2017, 12:40 PM   #240
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If I'm building a 5' long by 2' wide 2' tall tank, most of these "black box" fixtures like the Mars Aqua suggest a 2'x2' footprint. Would I need 2 or 3 fixtures to ensure adequate lighting (assuming I eventually get a few corals)?


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Unread 06/15/2017, 04:18 AM   #241
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If I'm building a 5' long by 2' wide 2' tall tank, most of these "black box" fixtures like the Mars Aqua suggest a 2'x2' footprint. Would I need 2 or 3 fixtures to ensure adequate lighting (assuming I eventually get a few corals)?
If you do corals that need a bit less light, zoas, softies, mushrooms, and can hang them a bit higher off the water (12" to 18"), 2 of the 16" fixtures will be fine.

If you are considering sps corals or an anemone or a clam that like more light, then 3 is the answer and you can mount them at any height off the water.

If you look around you may find a 4' fixture (Reef Breeders Photon and Aquasanrise, EverGrow and maybe others) 1 fixture will do. I have a 5'x2'x20" tank and I use a 50" Reef Breeder Photon V2. They aren't cheap, but for all the features you get (assuming you'd want them) it's a good deal. Other brands with the same features cost considerably more.

Also several brands offer 24" fixtures and you'd only need 2 of those.

ReeFi-Lab offers a pendant with an adjustable glass lens and each one can cover from a 2'x2' to a 3'x3' square. So 2 of them would work as well. And like the high end fixtures, they are fully controllable and like the Reef Breeders, reasonably priced. I have one over my frag tank for a couple of months now and it seems to be better than the Ocean Revive I had there before... but it could just be better water parameters...


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Unread 06/15/2017, 07:59 PM   #242
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I'm planning on building a 10gal reef tank with a 10 gal sump. The problem is im new to all of this and I'm on a budget so most of it will be diy. After some research ive found the lighting setup I would like to build and was hoping to get some input as to wether or not you guys think it will work. I plan to do mostly lps with some hardier sps. Here is the parts I plan to purchase

http://www.stevesleds.com/view_cart.asp


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Unread 06/16/2017, 12:46 AM   #243
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So it was brought to my attention that no one can view the cart. Sorry about that, basically its 3 royal blues 2 cayans and 2 5k neutral whites. All 3watt 1000ma with a dimmable driver, power supply and hd heatsink.


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Unread 06/16/2017, 04:06 AM   #244
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So it was brought to my attention that no one can view the cart. Sorry about that, basically its 3 royal blues 2 cayans and 2 5k neutral whites. All 3watt 1000ma with a dimmable driver, power supply and hd heatsink.
I've been using leds fixtures for 5 or 6 years now and I've never built one. If you don't mind my asking, when you are all done with the light and buying all the parts you'll need, how much money will you have in it?


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Unread 06/16/2017, 08:18 AM   #245
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Thanks for the info Ron. I'll look into some of the other options you mentioned. I can always start with two and add a 3rd or upgrade when I get to corals.

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Unread 06/16/2017, 07:51 PM   #246
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60 without shipping 75 with, but the driver, heat sink, and power supply should be able to support 2 more rows of 7 in case I decide to go with a little larger of a tank and for 7 leds its about 20. Want to have the option to customize my lighting system and keep it pretty cheap.


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Unread 06/17/2017, 05:32 AM   #247
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At $75 you are so close to the sub $100 Mars Aqua fixture that has 55 leds, is 120 watts , has 2 channels of color control, manual dimmers and a decent looking case. Why build? Unless the DIY thing is what you really want to do? The Mars Aqua could work over much bigger tanks if you ever up grade and it would have resale value if you decided to get out of the hobby (a LOT of people do... I'm just say'n).

Good luck and have fun.


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Unread 06/17/2017, 08:00 AM   #248
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I'm not that familiar with AI fixtures. Does yours have fans? Do the run... ever? If you have fans, and they run, you shouldn't have heat issues. Have you ever vacuumed or blown out the inside of the fixture through the vent holes? It's unlikely, but it could be clogged with dust?



IMHO, if you are having a heat issue with your leds, you need to have a conversation with AI... or is it Eco Tech now? I'd give their customer service a call ASAP.


They're out of warranty. I have to send them in for out of warranty repair. I was in the hospital for a very long time. Two of my AI Hydra 52 and my Apex shorted out and / or shutting off because of heat? Idk. Just seems like for 250+ a piece you would think that one would get more than just a couple years out of them.


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Unread 06/17/2017, 03:55 PM   #249
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They're out of warranty. I have to send them in for out of warranty repair. I was in the hospital for a very long time. Two of my AI Hydra 52 and my Apex shorted out and / or shutting off because of heat? Idk. Just seems like for 250+ a piece you would think that one would get more than just a couple years out of them.
I think most people led fixtures do work more than a couple of years!

I have black box leds made in China back in Dec of 2012 and they still work fine. The cases are a bit rusty because they switched to aluminum long after I bought. But they still work.


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Unread 06/19/2017, 11:56 AM   #250
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Originally Posted by Ron Reefman View Post
If you do corals that need a bit less light, zoas, softies, mushrooms, and can hang them a bit higher off the water (12" to 18"), 2 of the 16" fixtures will be fine.

If you are considering sps corals or an anemone or a clam that like more light, then 3 is the answer and you can mount them at any height off the water.

If you look around you may find a 4' fixture (Reef Breeders Photon and Aquasanrise, EverGrow and maybe others) 1 fixture will do. I have a 5'x2'x20" tank and I use a 50" Reef Breeder Photon V2. They aren't cheap, but for all the features you get (assuming you'd want them) it's a good deal. Other brands with the same features cost considerably more.

Also several brands offer 24" fixtures and you'd only need 2 of those.

ReeFi-Lab offers a pendant with an adjustable glass lens and each one can cover from a 2'x2' to a 3'x3' square. So 2 of them would work as well. And like the high end fixtures, they are fully controllable and like the Reef Breeders, reasonably priced. I have one over my frag tank for a couple of months now and it seems to be better than the Ocean Revive I had there before... but it could just be better water parameters...
Hey Ron, follow up questions. It looks like Mars Aqua has a 300 Watt that does a 3'x2' spread. Think 1 of those and 1, 165 Watt would handle a 5' tank? Getting one of each saves about 50 to 60 bucks compared to 3, 165 Watt.

I'll be hanging these from a 10' ceiling, do you or anyone else have any recommendations on what hanging kit to use? (Since I'll need about 3.5' to 4' of length, I imagine this is longer than Mars Aqua's hanging kit provides).


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