Algae Scrubber Basics

[SPotter]

Johnny,
My ats is great. It took me three tries with the slot in my pvc pipe but Ive got it right now. Flow is nice and even, Im getting about 400 gph and growth get better every week. I tested my water tonight and n's are 0 for the 7th week in a row and my n's are at 0.012. Ive also cut bsck on how long my skimmer is running every day.

I havent added any additional reds at this point because everything seems to be good. If i was to add more I would need another driver and given that I will be building a bigger one in a couple of months Ive decided not to put anymore money into this one.

Steve

[redneckgearhead]

Originally Posted by SPotter

Thats what I was thinking. I could run my current skimmer until I get thru the initial cycling stages then fire up the ats once I started moving corals over from my current system and adding new pieces.

I'm not sure I would wait to fire up your ATS on the new tank. The ammonia from the cycle would be a great source of food for the HA to grow on the screen.

[JohnnyB in SD]

So Steve, are you going to build one big one with LED's for the 240 or have 2 smaller ones? What dimension & how many LEDs if one big one?
Sounds like another good thing about LED's is they don't limit your screen to the length of T5 tubes.

[SPotter]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB in SD

So Steve, are you going to build one big one with LED's for the 240 or have 2 smaller ones? What dimension & how many LEDs if one big one?
Sounds like another good thing about LED's is they don't limit your screen to the length of T5 tubes.

Im thinking about one screen that will be 20x15 and light it with 14 3w leds on each side. Im thinking 2 to 1 red to white ratio. Im still playing around with box design for it.

Steve

[JohnnyB in SD]

How far away are your LED's from the screen right now / what distance you think would be good for the 14 on future build?
You figure you'll need to cool it with fans?

[SPotter]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB in SD

How far away are your LED's from the screen right now / what distance you think would be good for the 14 on future build?
You figure you'll need to cool it with fans?

Right now they are about 3.5" away from the screen and I am planning on having them at the same distance on the bigger build. On current box I drilled 1/4" holes (18) on each side with my dremel right in the area where the heat sinks sit and heat has not been an issue so far.

With the next build, I'm not sure if it will be a box or more of an open air design. If its a box I would imagine I will have to add some kind of cooling.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB in SD

Is very dark green probably considered black...

I have the T5's about 4" - 5" away from screen to accommodate cooling fans, maybe they need to be closer?

T5s can be much closer, as close as you can reasonably get them (2" is great)

Originally Posted by JohnnyB in SD

used ... an old ballast.

There's one of your problems. Not all ballasts are made the same. I recently learned that Workhorse ballasts are not very efficient - which is what I use. Since you're only using the lamps for 3 months, you might as well get a good ballast and drive the bejeesus out of the lamps. This will decrease lamp life, generally but like I said, we're going for intensity here.

Your old ballast may not be very efficient (I guess defining "old" in this case would help) and it may not be ideal for driving the T5s that you have. So I would check into that.

But between that and the lamps being too far away, you're not getting efficient scrubbing. The black algae is high-nutrient load in your tank not getting removed and you need to up the intensity by getting the lights closer, better reflectors (assuming you have reflectors, hard to see in the pics), putting more lamps in, etc.

[JohnnyB in SD]

Yeah, is a Workhorse out of a setup I bought used some years ago. One of the three ballasts failed so the whole thing was sitting around when I decided to take one out for the ATS. So you're right, it's probably very weak.
I have an IceCap 430 being taken out of service for LED's soon, I'll move the lamps closer when I switch to that. Yes, they do have clip on reflectors.
THANKS for the advice.
You making any progress tinkering with LED's for ATS?

[Floyd R Turbo]

Fixtures should get here soon...

[SPotter]

Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo

Fixtures should get here soon...

what fixture did you decide on????

[Floyd R Turbo]

I had 2 custom made, each with 112 1W LEDs and dual-switching. It's arranged so I that I should be able to test multiple combinations. The basic ones, such as 425/660 (Chlorophyll A) and 455/630 (Chlorophyll B) but then also 455/660 and 425/630, then both blues with one red and both reds with one blue (3-band) as well as all 4, then if I get creative I could eliminate the blues completely. It'll take some time, but should get some interesting data to run with...

[SPotter]

i am anxious to see how that will turn out. what kind of heat sink are they using?

[pskelton]

Originally Posted by pskelton

I have been for 6 months now and all I get is black/brown algae. Early on the implementation of the scrubber was a last resort to save me from several system design mistakes which brought my nitrate above 160 PPM. Long story short water changes were not making any long term affects and a limited aquarium budget I decided to try an algae scrubber. With in a few weeks of install my nitrate dropped to 40-50 PPM and finally after 6 months of running my nitrate is a solid 0 PPM. I am sure it could have happened faster if I had used brighter lights but that fact is it worked and my tank is very healthy today.

My scrubber (See pic for reference)
Now I am looking to improve the performance of my algae scrubber. I have never had anything other than black/brown algae even after adding iron. The flow over the screen is 35 gal/min/in as recommended. This is a 55 gallon tank, the screen if 6.5 in wide and it extends a good 14 inches into the bucket. Only about half the length of the screen gets direct light, so the directly lighted section is approximately the right amount of square inches. I am running two 23watt CFLs which I realize its a little under powered for a 55 Gallon tank but I am very space limited and the 23 watt bulbs fit the reflectors perfectly.

I am sure that I could add more bulbs or increase the watts and I would probably start growing green hair algae but I was wondering if there are any other changes I could make to get the same affect.

A couple questions I have are as follows:
1) I can not cut the length of the screen down since the length of it is to prevent splashing into the bottom of the bucket. Should I place a shield over the bottom half of the screen to prevent the spill over of light from getting to the screen? Would this buy me anything?

2) Should I cut a new slot pipe for a narrower screen and design my screen dimensions around 2 23 watt bulbs instead of the size of my tank?

3) My screen is not the recommended size needle point mesh it once size smaller (smaller holes). I already have a piece of the recommended screen standing by, should I start a new screen with the recommended material?

4) My screen has been dominated by black algae for 6 months (when the nitrates where above 0 I was cleaning the screen every 3-4 days). Could it be that my screen after being dominated by this type of algae for so long is unable to let the green algae take root? Should I start a new screen?

I am open to any and all recommendation. Thanks in advance.

Can I get some help troubleshooting this? I posted this a little while back and I think with all the things that get posted here daily it got rolled off as a new page started.
Any help would be appreciated.

[redneckgearhead]

Originally Posted by pskelton

Can I get some help troubleshooting this? I posted this a little while back and I think with all the things that get posted here daily it got rolled off as a new page started.
Any help would be appreciated.

I think black/brown algae is a sign of high nutrients, but as you said you have got them down, so It leads me to believe that your lights need to be stronger or more of them. If you can fit the higher wattage bulbs in your set up I would try that. How long are your lights on for? If you can not fit the higher wattage bulbs try leaving the lights on longer or move them closer. And IMO having extra screen that doesn't get the required lighting is not a big deal. I would rather have a screen that is to long and doesn't splash and make noise. Keep us updated. And post a pic of your next cleaning.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Lets see...

Originally Posted by pskelton
I have been for 6 months now and all I get is black/brown algae. Early on the implementation of the scrubber was a last resort to save me from several system design mistakes which brought my nitrate above 160 PPM. Long story short water changes were not making any long term affects and a limited aquarium budget I decided to try an algae scrubber. With in a few weeks of install my nitrate dropped to 40-50 PPM and finally after 6 months of running my nitrate is a solid 0 PPM. I am sure it could have happened faster if I had used brighter lights but that fact is it worked and my tank is very healthy today.

That's a great success story, thanks for sharing!

My scrubber (See pic for reference)
Now I am looking to improve the performance of my algae scrubber. I have never had anything other than black/brown algae even after adding iron. The flow over the screen is 35 gal/min/in as recommended. This is a 55 gallon tank, the screen if 6.5 in wide and it extends a good 14 inches into the bucket. Only about half the length of the screen gets direct light, so the directly lighted section is approximately the right amount of square inches. I am running two 23watt CFLs which I realize its a little under powered for a 55 Gallon tank but I am very space limited and the 23 watt bulbs fit the reflectors perfectly.

I am sure that I could add more bulbs or increase the watts and I would probably start growing green hair algae but I was wondering if there are any other changes I could make to get the same affect.

I looked back at your pic, I don't see anything glaringly amiss with your setup. Your flow is right, the lighting is right and perpendicular to the screen, the reflectors are decent. Your scrubber efficiency may improve by increasing the wattage of the lamps and decreasing the photoperiod. I posted this a ways back and will post is again shortly. This type of approach can help push through the brown/black algae.

A couple questions I have are as follows:
1) I can not cut the length of the screen down since the length of it is to prevent splashing into the bottom of the bucket. Should I place a shield over the bottom half of the screen to prevent the spill over of light from getting to the screen? Would this buy me anything?

Don't worry about excess unlit or poorly lit screen. The algae in the highly lit area will naturally out-compete this algae, though the algae in the lower-light area will probably grow brown. Generally not a concern, but blocking is can't hurt, just probably not really necessary.

2) Should I cut a new slot pipe for a narrower screen and design my screen dimensions around 2 23 watt bulbs instead of the size of my tank?

It would be better to increase the wattage to match the screen

3) My screen is not the recommended size needle point mesh it once size smaller (smaller holes). I already have a piece of the recommended screen standing by, should I start a new screen with the recommended material?

If you used #10 mesh (10 holes per inch) instead of #7 (7 holes per inch), I think you're fine.

4) My screen has been dominated by black algae for 6 months (when the nitrates where above 0 I was cleaning the screen every 3-4 days). Could it be that my screen after being dominated by this type of algae for so long is unable to let the green algae take root? Should I start a new screen?

Maybe. What I would try first is taking a stiff-bristled brush and cleaning very thoroughly on one half of the screen, getting all the holes cleared out and everything. This will in effect re-start a portion of your screen, though it won't be a complete re-start, because you're leaving something behind.

All of this begs the question though - is there something wrong with your system that is raising these concerns, or do you just want to see green growth?

I don't always have green bushy growth on my screen, there are weeks where it grows a lot darker and slimier, and I had some algae in the DT. Some of that had to do with the fact that I had severely coralline-encrusted powerheads, a ghetto temporary setup, and I allowed some of my levels to get out of whack 'cause I've been too busy lately, and I recently discovered that the Workhorse ballast that I have is probably not the best ballast, which means I need to switch that out and get a more efficient one that will drive the lamps harder (I think the one I have is wearing out)

But my point is, if your water parameters are fine, fish & corals are happy, DT is free of algae, they what's the worry?

I am open to any and all recommendation. Thanks in advance.

You're welcome...HTH

[pskelton]

Thanks for all the advice. I have some persistent algae in my sand bed and on a couple rocks. I suspect it is from N and P leaching out. All parameters are good and all my tank inhabitants appear to be happy. I guess there is so much talk about green growth that I felt something had to be wrong with my scrubber. I will try cleaning one side of the screen with a brush but if that doesn’t work I guess I am going just fine.

This forum has saved my tank

Thanks

[Floyd R Turbo]

Great!

What I meant about cleaning 1/2 of the screen was cleaning one half on both sides, rather than one side. Think of it like replacing 1/2 of the screen by way of scrubbing it well. Just wanted to clarify that...

[rysher]

what's the rule on running carbon with a scrubber?

[Floyd R Turbo]

No conflicts with carbon.

[rysher]

ok, thanks.
i'm having so many floating particles in my water that i think a carbon would help.
any thoughts?

[Floyd R Turbo]

Particles are food for corals, the only reason to remove them is for aesthetics. Carbon is not likely to remove them, you would want mechanical filtration. But either way, you're going to be removing coral food from the tank. Carbon is more for removing dissolved impurities, not particles.

[SPotter]

floyd....with the leds are you planning on using any optics???? I was looking at my lights last night and was thinking that I am losing a lot of light because the of spread. What do you think about putting 80 or 100 degree optics on them to kind of harness the spread a little?

[Floyd R Turbo]

If you're talking 3W LEDs then IMO you run into an issue with intensity and distribution. If you're close you want no lenses but then you get hotspots, so you move them away and now you spread the light out too much, so you put lenses on and end up re-focusing the light right where it was before, maybe a smidge less intense. 80-100 degree lenses yes, do they make those?

The LEDs I'm using are inherently 120 degree spread and all 1W so I plan on putting them 2" or so from the screen and based on other people's experiment with 1W LED fixtures this is perfect.

[SPotter]

I am probably about 4-5" away now because the 3w seemed too strong to be so close as it looked like I was getting burn marks. Since moving it back my growth has been great. Rapidled.com has 80 degree optics and know theres another online vendor that has 100's also. I might try putting the 80's on the led's that are on ends of my heat sink since a lot of the light from them is spilling over the screen and not really doing anything.

I will be following your test results closely because I am planning on building another ATS for my 280 that will be ready by the end of the year and my screen will be 20x15. My thought is to use use two 1" heat sinks that are 20" long. I would put 10 leds on each heat sink for a total of 20 per side. That would give me 120w's of led light.

[Jason.Wright]

So, seriously, does this really work? I have a mag 9.5 and very tempted to give this a try.