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Old 06/03/2019, 08:17 AM   #901
McPuff
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Michael, are you considering jawfish this time around? They would look pretty much perfect in there!


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Old 06/03/2019, 08:25 AM   #902
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Even in Nature, seagrass beds can collect huge amounts of detritus, with the occasional storm cleaning them out. But for a display aquarium, I feel like it is worth it to keep it a bit tidier. The ideal for me would be just enough to provide refuge to the 'little people', while not building up to ugly levels.

Scientists have discovered a symbiotic relationship with seagrass, a species of clam and the bacteria it hosts.

"Seagrasses evolved from terrestrial plants into marine foundation species around 100 million years ago. Their ecological success, however, remains a mystery because natural organic matter accumulation within the beds should result in toxic sediment sulfide levels. Using a meta-analysis, a field study, and a laboratory experiment, we reveal how an ancient three-stage symbiosis between seagrass, lucinid bivalves, and their sulfide-oxidizing gill bacteria reduces sulfide stress for seagrasses. We found that the bivalve–sulfide-oxidizer symbiosis reduced sulfide levels and enhanced seagrass production as measured in biomass. In turn, the bivalves and their endosymbionts profit from organic matter accumulation and radial oxygen release from the seagrass roots. These findings elucidate the long-term success of seagrasses in warm waters and offer new prospects for seagrass ecosystem conservation." - Science 15 Jun 2012

Needless to say, I want some of those clams! I haven't been able to track down anyone who collects them. I may try to collect my own at some point.

Field trips indeed! That is perhaps the biggest reason for this Nature-powered aquarium - to learn from Nature. It has taught me a lot already. I have shown it to a few kids. They seem to enjoy it, but nobody's knocking down my door for more!


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Old 06/03/2019, 08:40 AM   #903
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I would love to keep jawfish, McPuff! With the fish (damsels) I have planned, I worry they aren't aggressive enough to compete at feeding time, and would eventually starve. So I don't think I'm going to risk it. The Barnacle Blennies are the only hole-hiding fish I have experience with that are aggressive and fast enough to keep up.

We'll see how it goes with the mellower damsels. Maybe…


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Old 06/03/2019, 02:43 PM   #904
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Even in Nature, seagrass beds can collect huge amounts of detritus, with the occasional storm cleaning them out. But for a display aquarium, I feel like it is worth it to keep it a bit tidier. The ideal for me would be just enough to provide refuge to the 'little people', while not building up to ugly levels.

Scientists have discovered a symbiotic relationship with seagrass, a species of clam and the bacteria it hosts.

"Seagrasses evolved from terrestrial plants into marine foundation species around 100 million years ago. Their ecological success, however, remains a mystery because natural organic matter accumulation within the beds should result in toxic sediment sulfide levels. Using a meta-analysis, a field study, and a laboratory experiment, we reveal how an ancient three-stage symbiosis between seagrass, lucinid bivalves, and their sulfide-oxidizing gill bacteria reduces sulfide stress for seagrasses. We found that the bivalve–sulfide-oxidizer symbiosis reduced sulfide levels and enhanced seagrass production as measured in biomass. In turn, the bivalves and their endosymbionts profit from organic matter accumulation and radial oxygen release from the seagrass roots. These findings elucidate the long-term success of seagrasses in warm waters and offer new prospects for seagrass ecosystem conservation." - Science 15 Jun 2012

Needless to say, I want some of those clams! I haven't been able to track down anyone who collects them. I may try to collect my own at some point.

Field trips indeed! That is perhaps the biggest reason for this Nature-powered aquarium - to learn from Nature. It has taught me a lot already. I have shown it to a few kids. They seem to enjoy it, but nobody's knocking down my door for more!
Thanks for the lesson. I don't blame for wanting some of those clams!


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Old 06/03/2019, 11:09 PM   #905
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More pics!


The big picture. Not bad for six months in. I still have a few more greens to get, for the back wall.


Can you see the Barnacle Blennies? These two chuckle heads are sharing a rock lately. I've even seen some mating dancing!


From low at the end. That gold macro in the middle is sargassum weed.


Where green and red collide.


My little slice of weed paradise…


The end, from mid height.


Manatee Grass and Codium.


The end from higher.


Textures in green.


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Old 06/04/2019, 05:20 AM   #906
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Not bad at all! Everything looks quite healthy.

I see those cute little barnacle blenny heads sticking out of the holes in the rock.

So many textures in both the greens and the reds. And varying shades too. That is one of the beauties of your tank is all the textures and shades of color.

Do you have a sprig of sargassum in the middle of pic #3? Doh I am an idiot, I just read that it is sargassum.


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Last edited by vlangel; 06/04/2019 at 05:26 AM.
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Old 06/04/2019, 09:47 AM   #907
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.........
Field trips indeed! That is perhaps the biggest reason for this Nature-powered aquarium - to learn from Nature. It has taught me a lot already. I have shown it to a few kids. They seem to enjoy it, but nobody's knocking down my door for more!
I hear a knockin

Looks great to me.


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Old 06/04/2019, 10:56 AM   #908
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Thanks lapin! I'm happy with the progress. Once I get all the plants I want, not to mention fish, it should look pretty good!


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Old 06/04/2019, 04:04 PM   #909
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June 4, 2019 QT start date.


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Old 06/04/2019, 10:48 PM   #910
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Thanks Dawn! I'm so glad you're seeing the color/texture thing. That's what I'm going for. That Sargassum Weed looks like it will make it. It's growing out of a rock, so it's well attached. Though I am looking forward to the plants growing in, I'm also enjoying the journey, seeing different phases.


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
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Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Old 06/05/2019, 05:40 AM   #911
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Thanks Dawn! I'm so glad you're seeing the color/texture thing. That's what I'm going for. That Sargassum Weed looks like it will make it. It's growing out of a rock, so it's well attached. Though I am looking forward to the plants growing in, I'm also enjoying the journey, seeing different phases.
Thatbis so cool about the sargassum. That is a macro that I have always wanted so I will enjoy watching yours grow.

I also have always wanted to buy live rock and see what I get. It must be like Christmas with unexpected presents poppping up!


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Old 06/05/2019, 06:47 AM   #912
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There are people that keep jawfish in bustling reefs and they seem to do fine. They are actually pretty quick when they need to be so getting food would probably not be a problem. Something to consider...

QT has begun... for which fish? Did I miss something?


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Old 06/05/2019, 08:06 AM   #913
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The Sargassum was a nice surprise. Live rock is like Christmas morning! And it keeps on giving.

I've kept jawfish before. They were just a little too shy to get enough to eat, and gradually withered away. I'm sure they can be kept successfully for years, but that was my experience. With the aggressively feeding damsels I have planned, I fear it would happen again.

Yes, I got some more Neon and Tuxedo Damsels into QT. Some are in rough shape, so I don't know how many will make it.


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
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Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Old 06/05/2019, 09:16 AM   #914
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Sorry that I've been away. I've been reading, but time has been tight between work and some family life events that have kept me away from the keyboard. Excellent updates and info, as usual. I love the pics, and, of course, I'm biased toward the pair of blennies pic! It's awesome that they're doing the mating dance for you. The "slice of weed paradise" pic is awesome too.

How about a dusky jawfish? They're not colorful, but, they are much hardier and will eat well. I haven't tried keeping species other than the dusky and pearly jaws. I had the same problems with the pearly's that you described with your jawfish experience. The dusky fared much better, and honestly, I thought he was a better home builder and was much more interesting. Tons of personality.


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Old 06/05/2019, 10:11 AM   #915
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Thanks Kevin! I had a scare with one of the blennies yesterday. It was doing the death spiral! I was immediately filled with dread. Then I noticed something on it. A bulge or something. It was some kind of fish lice, I think. I got a net ready to catch it and remove it with tweezers. But I wasn't ever able to catch it. This morning I expected it to be dead, but it wasn't. The lice was gone and the blenny seemed good as new! It ate with it's usual gusto, so I'm hopeful. Now I wonder if fish lice were the culprit with previous deaths. I also wonder if the lice left something behind, like babies. I guess I will watch and wait, which is pretty much what I've done with these fish, since the previous wipeout.

Good info on the dusky. I'll keep that in mind.

I got some damsels into QT. Two of the Neons already appear to have Uronema. The rest look good though.

I think what will run me out of this hobby is the trend of less and less healthy fish being sold to us consumers. It's demoralizing. It makes me feel like a loser. It didn't use to be this way. Now, you can't even be assured that damsels will be healthy. Something needs to change. Is captive breeding the answer? I don't know, but if quality control is not improved, I think this hobby is doomed.

Sorry for the depressing rant, but I think it is high time we all spoke up. If more of us chime in, maybe something will be done before it's too late.


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
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Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Old 06/06/2019, 07:17 AM   #916
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Whew, I'm glad your blenny is OK. Fish lice are scary to me with regard to fishkeeping. It's one of my fears of getting them in my tank since I collect my own fish. I'm not sure how to get rid of them. At least you may have the key to knowing what the death spiral cause might be. I wonder if they do that in general when they're sick of anything since so many people post about it?

The only issue that I see with a dusky jawfish might be that they have such a large mouth, which potentially could be a threat to the smaller fish. They get to be 5" long too. They don't act like predators though, but, I never really tested them like that.

There are some other smaller jawfish species that might be worth considering too. The tiger (aka yellow or black cap) jawfish intrigues me. According to Fishbase, they only get to be 2.5" long.

Bluespots are beautiful and would be an ideal species, but, they do much better in cooler water.

LA has a chinstrap jawfish that only gets to 3" and looks pretty cool. It has a similar morphology to the dusky, so perhaps their behavior might be similar.

One vendor has a "red devil jawfish" that they say only gets to 1.5-2" long. I couldn't find that fish on Fishbase, so can't confirm that.

There is quite a variety of different species available on the web, some are larger species, some smaller.

When you buy fish, do you order on-line or shop at an LFS?


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Old 06/06/2019, 08:56 AM   #917
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I've looked at jawfish - several species. I'm just not interested in them right now.

I buy most of my fish online these days, but not all. Often, if I'm buying multiple specimens, I'll buy online to save money. If I'm buying a single specimen, it's often cheaper to buy it locally.


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
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Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Old 06/06/2019, 12:19 PM   #918
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Thanks Kevin! I had a scare with one of the blennies yesterday. It was doing the death spiral! I was immediately filled with dread. Then I noticed something on it. A bulge or something. It was some kind of fish lice, I think. I got a net ready to catch it and remove it with tweezers. But I wasn't ever able to catch it. This morning I expected it to be dead, but it wasn't. The lice was gone and the blenny seemed good as new! It ate with it's usual gusto, so I'm hopeful. Now I wonder if fish lice were the culprit with previous deaths. I also wonder if the lice left something behind, like babies. I guess I will watch and wait, which is pretty much what I've done with these fish, since the previous wipeout.

Good info on the dusky. I'll keep that in mind.

I got some damsels into QT. Two of the Neons already appear to have Uronema. The rest look good though.

I think what will run me out of this hobby is the trend of less and less healthy fish being sold to us consumers. It's demoralizing. It makes me feel like a loser. It didn't use to be this way. Now, you can't even be assured that damsels will be healthy. Something needs to change. Is captive breeding the answer? I don't know, but if quality control is not improved, I think this hobby is doomed.

Sorry for the depressing rant, but I think it is high time we all spoke up. If more of us chime in, maybe something will be done before it's too late.
The fish come to the stores faster than before, so there is less die off in shipping, but more sick fish to the end user. There is also more demand than before so fish move faster from wholesaler to retail so less time in medicated tankes at the wholesaler.

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Old 06/06/2019, 01:02 PM   #919
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I've looked at jawfish - several species. I'm just not interested in them right now.
Ah, OK, sorry about that. I misunderstood. I thought that you might have been interested in them or were considering them.

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I buy most of my fish online these days, but not all. Often, if I'm buying multiple specimens, I'll buy online to save money. If I'm buying a single specimen, it's often cheaper to buy it locally.
Do you think that the problems that frustrate you are from the on-line suppliers or the LFS (or their supplier)?

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The fish come to the stores faster than before, so there is less die off in shipping, but more sick fish to the end user. There is also more demand than before so fish move faster from wholesaler to retail so less time in medicated tankes at the wholesaler.
Thanks for that info, you may have answered my question above...


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Old 06/06/2019, 02:13 PM   #920
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No worries Kevin. I hope I wasn't snippy. I appreciate your efforts to help! It's just that I've had 'the jawfish discussion' several times, and it keeps coming up for some reason.

I think it's mostly online stores, but I don't know. The benefit of using Live Aquaria is that they refund your money if fish die, within 14 days I think. That's great, but it doesn't help with the awfulness of losing fish. It makes me feel like I'm not good enough for this hobby, and maybe I should try something else. If I go through this, after 30+ years of fish keeping, I imagine newbies having it even worse.


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Old 06/06/2019, 02:18 PM   #921
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Thanks SaltySully! That's good to know.

It sounds like they're shifting the risk away from themselves and towards consumers. Good for them in the short term, but bad in the long term. If folks don't believe they can keep fish alive, this hobby is doomed.


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Old 06/06/2019, 02:50 PM   #922
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Nah, not snippy. I didn't take it that way. You're just trying to keep your thread on track I remembered from before that you weren't interested in them, but for some reason, I thought that maybe you'd changed your mind. I was mistaken. I won't bring them up from now on unless you do. "Saul Goodman"!

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It makes me feel like I'm not good enough for this hobby, and maybe I should try something else.
Well, it's not you, because of your approach, you're definitely good enough. The problem is that some things happen that we can't control, but have to deal with.


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Old 06/06/2019, 02:57 PM   #923
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Thanks SaltySully! That's good to know.

It sounds like they're shifting the risk away from themselves and towards consumers. Good for them in the short term, but bad in the long term. If folks don't believe they can keep fish alive, this hobby is doomed.
That's about it sir.

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Old 06/06/2019, 02:58 PM   #924
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Sea grass looking good by the way!

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Old 06/06/2019, 03:16 PM   #925
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Saul Goodman! Brilliant! Yeah, McPuff brought them up, and so we got into it again. No biggee.

Thanks for the encouragement. I'll keep trying.

I just broke down one of my QTs to disinfect it, after losing two Neon Damsels to Uronema. Uronema is challenging. It can live without a fish host indefinitely, so a fallow period doesn't work. You have to bleach everything and let it dry thoroughly. I have the feeling I'll be doing it to my other two QTs, in the coming days…


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