Help, cliowns died after changing tank

gbpackers · 03/23/2020, 01:04 PM

Hi. I'm not sure what's going on with my tank. I just switched yesterday from a 40 breeder with no sump to a 20 gallon long with a 20 gallon sump with PVC piping that I waited almost 24 hours to let dry before I ran it in the tank. I have a brand new reef octopus 110 skimmer. I used GE silicone from home Depot for the baffles and let that cure for 48 hours.
I have had this set up in various tanks for the last 8 years with no change in live rock or anything else. I only have two clowns and some soft corals.
I woke up this morning and one clown was dead. I came home from work at lunch today and the other one is dead. I did a add turbo snail yesterday and so far it is alive.
I just did my chemistries and pH is 8.4, nitrate and nitrite 0 and ammonia zero ( which is what they always are) with a red Sea chemistry set.
My corals have been closed since yesterday.
When I got home at lunch today I was thinking maybe it was a big temperature swing. I did keep a thermometer in both tanks as I made the switch and use the same water from the old tank in the new one. It did get several degrees different though, maybe 76 in the new Tank versus ad in the old.
I'm currently making water to try to do 10% water changes every day but it has to warm up and I have to make more.
I also started running a battery powered air pump into the tank in case it was an oxygen thing but I don't know how it could be with a new skimmer adding oxygen to the water and a wavemaker rippling the top of the water.
Any suggestions? Really annoyed that I killed both my clownfish that were 8 years old. Possibly not long enough for the silicone to cure?

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gbpackers · 03/23/2020, 01:22 PM

I'm thinking now it's the silicone. I just unplumbed my sump. I used GE 2 + silicone. I researched it extensively on multiple forums where people use it and say it's not a problem but those may have been older posts. I have finding some that say they changed their formula and it will kill your tank. I see right on the packaging it says 10-year mold free so I'm thinking the antifungals might have wiped everything out. Extremely frustrated.

Does this seem possible?

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MarAquatic · 03/23/2020, 04:22 PM

I doubt the silicon was the culprit as when fully cured it should be non toxic. Did you check ammonia or nitrite

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gbpackers · 03/23/2020, 04:48 PM

Yes ammonia, nitrate nitrite zero. PH 8.4. I've read and the newer GE stuff especially with mold prevention will nuke fish tanks, so I'm not sure.

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MarAquatic · 03/23/2020, 05:56 PM

Yeah but if it killed ever thing off I think you would have an ammonia reading. What was your water. Was it from old tank??

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gbpackers · 03/23/2020, 06:05 PM

Yes the water was from the old tank. Two dead clowns which were removed quickly and I guess I'm not really sure if the corals are dead or not. They're definitely all closed. Not sure when I would see an ammonia Spike if they were all dead

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tom g · 03/23/2020, 06:24 PM

did u swap over old sand , or use new ,sand .
I have killed fish swapping over sand .

ThRoewer · 03/23/2020, 07:43 PM

I would think it was the silicone. None of the silicones you can find at Home Depot, Lowes, or the like are suitable for aquaium use. This is especially the case with silicones that have this kind of mold free guarantee. All those contain antifungal agents that are toxic to fish.

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gbpackers · 03/23/2020, 08:28 PM

No sand, it's bare bottom. I'm almost sure it's the silicone. After disconnecting the sump and a water change and starting a toxin absorber my last remaining fish is looking better. I read the antifungal agent is basically like cyanide to fish. So stupid. My corals look really bad. How do I know if they're dead?

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ThRoewer · 03/23/2020, 08:37 PM

Did you check the fine print on the silicone cartridge? Some still have the warning "not for aquaium use" but today you actually need to see a note like "suitable for aquaium use". If you don't see that assume that it isn't suitable unless you can otherwise confirm that it is not toxic.

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gbpackers · 03/23/2020, 08:47 PM

No, I didn't. I read several posts saying GE silicone was good to use, so I just used it. Really stupid. I'll only use aqueon silicone from now on.

Should I be checking ammonia daily Incase this killed of all my live rock?

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Four drachma · 03/24/2020, 05:46 AM

Sorry for your loss..that’s got to be tough having your clowns for so long..I think it was definitely your silicon, in a 20 gal, it was probably not enough water to displace the toxins. Run carbon immediately, and not sure where you live, but maybe get enough water from a stable tank-(friend or LFS), and then slowly do several water changes. The corals are fairly hardy, and will most likely rebound if the problem is removed.

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ThRoewer · 03/24/2020, 10:59 PM

It never hurts to check.

BTW, these are Aquarium safe silicones:

https://www.amazon.com/Black-Aquariu.../dp/B00EZB2MDI

https://aqualabaquaria.com/products/...00-silicone-ge

Generally, I prefer those that are particularly formulated for aquarium use and labeled as such.

tom obrecht · 03/25/2020, 05:38 AM

Another thing I look for on silicone is “food safe” or aquarium use. I only use silicone through many of the vendors here specific for aquarium. Sorry things went south for you! Very frustrating!

gbpackers · 03/25/2020, 06:03 AM

Yeah thanks, I obviously should've been more careful. Tank is doing better now and I've already resiliconed with aqueon aquarium silicone and removed every bit of the old stuff. I think I lost all my corals though. I got one small fragment of a green hammer after a couple of large water changes and it's doing fine so I think I'm in the clear

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gbpackers · 03/28/2020, 09:41 AM

Ok, so it looks like my tank is cycling now. I've had ammonia at 0.25ppm the last 3 days. No nitrite yet. I have a green star polyp and a green hammer doing fine but other corals died. Don't are just now starting to extend polyps again after a week.
My question is do I need to put a piece of raw shrimp in the tank to feed the cycle or is all the dying bacteria in my live rock ( which may not be dead) enough to keep it going?
I don't want to add nitrogen and kill my remaining corals.
I'm doing water changes and changing back to my 40 breeder for dilution effect.
Thanks

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ThRoewer · 03/28/2020, 01:22 PM

No need to feed the cycle, the die-off will do that for you. What you might want to do is to remove anything dead you can get out. And you might want to add some bacterial starter in case your good bacteria got hit too hard to recover quickly.
And if there are still fish in the tank you might also want to add something that binds/neutralizes ammonia.

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ThRoewer · 03/28/2020, 01:25 PM

BTW, for photosynthetic coral, or rather their symbiotic algae, ammonia is food. It just shouldn't get too high.

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gbpackers · 03/28/2020, 08:06 PM

I guess that explains why the corals are doing well.
Thanks

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Adam1988 · 03/28/2020, 10:45 PM

i would recomend that you do a heafty water change

gbpackers · 03/28/2020, 10:53 PM

Doing them every day

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03/23/2020, 01:04 PM	#1
gbpackers Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: wisconsin Posts: 30	Help, cliowns died after changing tank Hi. I'm not sure what's going on with my tank. I just switched yesterday from a 40 breeder with no sump to a 20 gallon long with a 20 gallon sump with PVC piping that I waited almost 24 hours to let dry before I ran it in the tank. I have a brand new reef octopus 110 skimmer. I used GE silicone from home Depot for the baffles and let that cure for 48 hours. I have had this set up in various tanks for the last 8 years with no change in live rock or anything else. I only have two clowns and some soft corals. I woke up this morning and one clown was dead. I came home from work at lunch today and the other one is dead. I did a add turbo snail yesterday and so far it is alive. I just did my chemistries and pH is 8.4, nitrate and nitrite 0 and ammonia zero ( which is what they always are) with a red Sea chemistry set. My corals have been closed since yesterday. When I got home at lunch today I was thinking maybe it was a big temperature swing. I did keep a thermometer in both tanks as I made the switch and use the same water from the old tank in the new one. It did get several degrees different though, maybe 76 in the new Tank versus ad in the old. I'm currently making water to try to do 10% water changes every day but it has to warm up and I have to make more. I also started running a battery powered air pump into the tank in case it was an oxygen thing but I don't know how it could be with a new skimmer adding oxygen to the water and a wavemaker rippling the top of the water. Any suggestions? Really annoyed that I killed both my clownfish that were 8 years old. Possibly not long enough for the silicone to cure? Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

03/23/2020, 06:24 PM	#7
tom g Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: toronto Posts: 218	deaths did u swap over old sand , or use new ,sand . I have killed fish swapping over sand .

03/23/2020, 07:43 PM	#8
ThRoewer Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Fremont, CA Posts: 9,555	I would think it was the silicone. None of the silicones you can find at Home Depot, Lowes, or the like are suitable for aquaium use. This is especially the case with silicones that have this kind of mold free guarantee. All those contain antifungal agents that are toxic to fish. Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk __________________ Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio 3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...

03/23/2020, 08:37 PM	#10
ThRoewer Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Fremont, CA Posts: 9,555	Did you check the fine print on the silicone cartridge? Some still have the warning "not for aquaium use" but today you actually need to see a note like "suitable for aquaium use". If you don't see that assume that it isn't suitable unless you can otherwise confirm that it is not toxic. Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk __________________ Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio 3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...

03/24/2020, 10:59 PM	#13
ThRoewer Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Fremont, CA Posts: 9,555	It never hurts to check. BTW, these are Aquarium safe silicones: https://www.amazon.com/Black-Aquariu.../dp/B00EZB2MDI https://aqualabaquaria.com/products/...00-silicone-ge Generally, I prefer those that are particularly formulated for aquarium use and labeled as such. __________________ Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio 3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...

03/23/2020, 01:22 PM	#2
gbpackers Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: wisconsin Posts: 30	I'm thinking now it's the silicone. I just unplumbed my sump. I used GE 2 + silicone. I researched it extensively on multiple forums where people use it and say it's not a problem but those may have been older posts. I have finding some that say they changed their formula and it will kill your tank. I see right on the packaging it says 10-year mold free so I'm thinking the antifungals might have wiped everything out. Extremely frustrated. Does this seem possible? Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

03/23/2020, 04:22 PM	#3
MarAquatic Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 689	I doubt the silicon was the culprit as when fully cured it should be non toxic. Did you check ammonia or nitrite Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

03/23/2020, 04:48 PM	#4
gbpackers Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: wisconsin Posts: 30	Yes ammonia, nitrate nitrite zero. PH 8.4. I've read and the newer GE stuff especially with mold prevention will nuke fish tanks, so I'm not sure. Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

03/23/2020, 05:56 PM	#5
MarAquatic Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 689	Yeah but if it killed ever thing off I think you would have an ammonia reading. What was your water. Was it from old tank?? Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

03/23/2020, 06:05 PM	#6
gbpackers Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: wisconsin Posts: 30	Yes the water was from the old tank. Two dead clowns which were removed quickly and I guess I'm not really sure if the corals are dead or not. They're definitely all closed. Not sure when I would see an ammonia Spike if they were all dead Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

03/23/2020, 08:28 PM	#9
gbpackers Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: wisconsin Posts: 30	No sand, it's bare bottom. I'm almost sure it's the silicone. After disconnecting the sump and a water change and starting a toxin absorber my last remaining fish is looking better. I read the antifungal agent is basically like cyanide to fish. So stupid. My corals look really bad. How do I know if they're dead? Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

03/23/2020, 08:47 PM	#11
gbpackers Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: wisconsin Posts: 30	No, I didn't. I read several posts saying GE silicone was good to use, so I just used it. Really stupid. I'll only use aqueon silicone from now on. Should I be checking ammonia daily Incase this killed of all my live rock? Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

03/24/2020, 05:46 AM	#12
Four drachma Registered Member Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 134	Sorry for your loss..that’s got to be tough having your clowns for so long..I think it was definitely your silicon, in a 20 gal, it was probably not enough water to displace the toxins. Run carbon immediately, and not sure where you live, but maybe get enough water from a stable tank-(friend or LFS), and then slowly do several water changes. The corals are fairly hardy, and will most likely rebound if the problem is removed. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

03/25/2020, 05:38 AM	#14
tom obrecht Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: WI Posts: 3,014	Another thing I look for on silicone is “food safe” or aquarium use. I only use silicone through many of the vendors here specific for aquarium. Sorry things went south for you! Very frustrating! __________________ Reef keeping is where Murphy's Law and your bank account collide!! TOTM May 2006

03/25/2020, 06:03 AM	#15
gbpackers Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: wisconsin Posts: 30	Yeah thanks, I obviously should've been more careful. Tank is doing better now and I've already resiliconed with aqueon aquarium silicone and removed every bit of the old stuff. I think I lost all my corals though. I got one small fragment of a green hammer after a couple of large water changes and it's doing fine so I think I'm in the clear Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

03/28/2020, 09:41 AM	#16
gbpackers Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: wisconsin Posts: 30	Ok, so it looks like my tank is cycling now. I've had ammonia at 0.25ppm the last 3 days. No nitrite yet. I have a green star polyp and a green hammer doing fine but other corals died. Don't are just now starting to extend polyps again after a week. My question is do I need to put a piece of raw shrimp in the tank to feed the cycle or is all the dying bacteria in my live rock ( which may not be dead) enough to keep it going? I don't want to add nitrogen and kill my remaining corals. I'm doing water changes and changing back to my 40 breeder for dilution effect. Thanks Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

03/28/2020, 01:22 PM	#17
ThRoewer Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Fremont, CA Posts: 9,555	No need to feed the cycle, the die-off will do that for you. What you might want to do is to remove anything dead you can get out. And you might want to add some bacterial starter in case your good bacteria got hit too hard to recover quickly. And if there are still fish in the tank you might also want to add something that binds/neutralizes ammonia. Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk __________________ Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio 3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...

03/28/2020, 01:25 PM	#18
ThRoewer Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Fremont, CA Posts: 9,555	BTW, for photosynthetic coral, or rather their symbiotic algae, ammonia is food. It just shouldn't get too high. Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk __________________ Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio 3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...

03/28/2020, 08:06 PM	#19
gbpackers Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: wisconsin Posts: 30	I guess that explains why the corals are doing well. Thanks Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

03/28/2020, 10:45 PM	#20
Adam1988 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 6	hello i would recomend that you do a heafty water change

03/28/2020, 10:53 PM	#21
gbpackers Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: wisconsin Posts: 30	Doing them every day Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk