AEFW experiments and study - Page 5

animalkingdom · 11/14/2013, 02:23 PM

man those suckers live forever without food...

_ToXIc_ · 11/14/2013, 02:39 PM

wow O.o

subscribed.. thanks for taking the time to do this.

trueblackpercula · 11/14/2013, 05:02 PM

Is there any algea build up on the inside was of the cubes? May me they eat algea as well when a host acro is not available.
Just throwing ideas at ya.

trueblackpercula · 11/14/2013, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tektite

They won't, live acros are their only food.

After 9 days no food something's is keeping them alive. This is a five star thread thanks for all the dedication.

ormet · 11/15/2013, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trueblackpercula

After 9 days no food something's is keeping them alive. This is a five star thread thanks for all the dedication.

Medically speaking, most doctors agree that healthy humans can go up to eight weeks without food as long as they have water.

9 days for a flatworm seems more then reasonable.

trueblackpercula · 11/15/2013, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ormet

Medically speaking, most doctors agree that healthy humans can go up to eight weeks without food as long as they have water.

9 days for a flatworm seems more then reasonable.

I Agee, but I was vague with my post. Was I was trying to say is maybe they also feed on algea. I can see how if the inside walls of the holding containers will get a slight build up and maybe they are grazing on that. Just trying to give ideas and suggestions of what could be keeping them alive.

tektite · 11/15/2013, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trueblackpercula

After 9 days no food something's is keeping them alive. This is a five star thread thanks for all the dedication.

Some polyclad flatworms can live for months with no food. Hopefully AEFW don't live quite that long! AEFW living 9 days with no food doesn't surprise me in the least.

tektite · 11/15/2013, 11:58 AM

Day 10, Experiment 1 (Nov 14th)

Compartment 1: No change (16 total egg clusters to date), all remaining 5 AEFW present
Compartment 2: No change (10 total egg clusters to date), all remaining 6 AEFW present
Compartment 3: No change (10 total egg clusters to date), all 10 AEFW present
Compartment 4: 6 AEFW dead (1 egg cluster to date), 1 remaining AEFW
Compartment 5: All remaining 5 AEFW dead – compartment empty

Notes:

As of today, all of compartment 5, the smallest AEFW, are dead. They were the 1-2mm group in size. Just 1 remaining AEFW in compartment 4, the 2-4mm size group, the largest of them is the sole survivor. Multiple experiment runs will verify or disprove these results, of the smaller AEFW all dying around days 9-10. The larger AEFW continue to live, but are much much less active at night than when first removed from the Acropora.

Waterchange performed at 10am and 10pm

dread240 · 11/15/2013, 03:22 PM

makes sense, smaller organisms don't have the energy reserves from no food

MitchReef · 11/15/2013, 04:12 PM

Hey TrueBlackPercula, as far as I know AEFW are Obligate Acropora feeders which means that is their only food at all.

tektite · 11/15/2013, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MitchReef

Hey TrueBlackPercula, as far as I know AEFW are Obligate Acropora feeders which means that is their only food at all.

Correct.

joao junior · 11/15/2013, 05:06 PM

some sps keepers have sucess only blasting acroporas,not eggs but you think i can get free of it with blasting?

tektite · 11/15/2013, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joao junior

some sps keepers have sucess only blasting acroporas,not eggs but you think i can get free of it with blasting?

Absolutely not. Cleaning the acros of AEFW by powerheads helps the corals, gives them some breathing room and time to recover before becoming reinfested. But you miss just a few AEFW, blow them off for them to return on the currents, tucked too tightly into corners, they survive long enough to lay eggs...most egg clusters are 10-15 eggs or more, each egg containing up to 7 larvae. I've had some AEFW capable of clinging to the acro when blasted hard with a baster 1/2" away from them, no matter what you do there will always be the strong ones that remain on the corals. Blasting can control the AEFW to a point the acros are OK, as long as your tank has no problems. Acros are sensitive enough, add predation to the list and things they could normally live through become deadly.

Matman · 11/15/2013, 05:49 PM

I'm very curious about that dip that kills the embryos!!

Outdrsyguy1 · 11/16/2013, 01:56 AM

This thread is awesome. It's seriously going to be googled for years to come.

If you get bored, you might try and test the theory that the zeovit guys put out involving camel shrimp. Supposedly they put an acro with AEFW in a tank with like 10 camel's and they eat all the eggs and aefw before starting to snack on the coral tissue.
Something about leaving it in there for 30 minutes or so, more than that and they devour the acro.

Piper27 · 11/16/2013, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dowtish

That would be good to know to a degree but how would this application work? You can only leave lights on for so long before you start frying your acros.

I accidentally left my 400w 14k ushio on for 4 days which really hurt all my acros but a few months later they are ok. I think one more day would have basically killed them.

I wonder if there is a type of light that does affect the aefw but not corals. At least in some sort of way, like slowing them down or keeping them hiding longer? Just a thought from someone with no knowledge of the subject (light).

Tektite, are you having luck getting acroporas to keep this experiment going? By the looks of the acros in the background of one of your pics it seems the acros in your tank are really hurting.

I think we need to think of a way to keep the water flowing through the test tanks but keeping the aefw in. Maybe using plumbing pipes with the micron mesh inside to keep the light off of them?

We are all very happy your doing this, but guys I think we should let her update instead of clutter the thread with thank you posts. It's getting hard to read through (at least for me I am slow...).

tektite · 11/16/2013, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piper27

I accidentally left my 400w 14k ushio on for 4 days which really hurt all my acros but a few months later they are ok. I think one more day would have basically killed them.

I wonder if there is a type of light that does affect the aefw but not corals. At least in some sort of way, like slowing them down or keeping them hiding longer? Just a thought from someone with no knowledge of the subject (light).

The continuous light experiment will have to be at much reduced intensity. Trying different light spectrums to see if there's a difference in how the AEFW react in comparison with the potential damage to the acros from the light cycle is a good idea. I'll add it to my list

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piper27

Tektite, are you having luck getting acroporas to keep this experiment going? By the looks of the acros in the background of one of your pics it seems the acros in your tank are really hurting.

Unfortunately they are hurting. I don't have many acros and they're all infested and have been for months, and are really showing the strain. I got a few corals from some people on RC this week, I'm also buying a box of acro colonies that should be here on Monday. That'll allow me to have my 2 populations of AEFW and take the strain off the acros.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piper27

We are all very happy your doing this, but guys I think we should let her update instead of clutter the thread with thank you posts. It's getting hard to read through (at least for me I am slow...).

Any comments on future experiments, observations of AEFW, questions, etc are certainly welcomed though!

Constrictor6090 · 11/16/2013, 10:04 AM

Is it easy for you to get the eggs off the acros? I've taken a toothbrush to them and they didn't come off. I eventually had to just get a razor blade. I'm positive they were AEFW eggs

Constrictor6090 · 11/16/2013, 10:06 AM

You should try and see what fish will eat them. Maybe purple chromis and six/four line wrasses?

tektite · 11/16/2013, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Constrictor6090

Is it easy for you to get the eggs off the acros? I've taken a toothbrush to them and they didn't come off. I eventually had to just get a razor blade. I'm positive they were AEFW eggs

The eggs themselves are attached to a thin sheet that is attached to the coral. They're on pretty tight! However, the eggs themselves are delicate, I doubt any would survive being brushed with a toothbrush without breaking open.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Constrictor6090

You should try and see what fish will eat them. Maybe purple chromis and six/four line wrasses?

I will be trying different fish down the line. Just need to figure out which ones.

tektite · 11/16/2013, 02:13 PM

If anyone has AEFW or knows someone who does, I would greatly appreciate it if you could send me a few or even just eggs. I would like to gather AEFW from as many sources as possible to compare their reaction to experiments like the starvation one I'm doing now. I've already come across one strain that was ridiculously hardy, but don't currently have any in my system. A few people have mentioned getting some that look different than the regular ones, it would be interesting to see if there may even be more than one species of AEFW plaguing hobbyists.

reefmutt · 11/16/2013, 08:26 PM

very interesting thread!
subscribed..
i have heard that extremely high potassium levels will kill both adults and embryos when the host acro is dipped for up to 30 minute.. usually doesn't hurt the acro but will basically sterilize the coral..
not sure if you have experimented with this..
ill be waiting on every entry on this thread..

tektite · 11/16/2013, 08:35 PM

Interesting, had not heard that. I'll add it to my list of dips to try.

Reef1589 · 11/17/2013, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tektite

If anyone has AEFW or knows someone who does, I would greatly appreciate it if you could send me a few or even just eggs. I would like to gather AEFW from as many sources as possible to compare their reaction to experiments like the starvation one I'm doing now. I've already come across one strain that was ridiculously hardy, but don't currently have any in my system. A few people have mentioned getting some that look different than the regular ones, it would be interesting to see if there may even be more than one species of AEFW plaguing hobbyists.

... Buying AEFW... I can do $5/AEFW , I got a really nice one that I call the terminator... he just really goes to town on the acros.. ill let him go for $10..

just kidding, and sorry for not adding any knowledge to the thread, but I could resist, but I am following the thread, and its great!

keep it up.

reef bloke · 11/17/2013, 09:00 PM

Just playing with ideas here:
As AEFW ingest the coral flesh could they possibly take on some of the zooxanthellae making them partially photosynthetic and able to survive periods without a host?
Perhaps the young ones didn't have chance to build up ample numbers of zoo?

I know this kind of adaptation is quite common in nudi's , no?

11/14/2013, 05:02 PM	#103
trueblackpercula Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: STATEN ISLAND Posts: 7,517	Is there any algea build up on the inside was of the cubes? May me they eat algea as well when a host acro is not available. Just throwing ideas at ya. __________________ Life is to short to buy frags ! But for FREE I'LL take them ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. >((((º> LIVE SAND ITS THE CURE........® Current Tank Info: 120 CUBE Live sand Mitras lx6100hv MRC MR 2 single becket MP40 power head Aquamedic dosing pump using B-ionic

11/15/2013, 11:58 AM	#108
tektite I never finish anyth Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Houston TX Posts: 1,120	Day 10, Experiment 1 (Nov 14th) Compartment 1: No change (16 total egg clusters to date), all remaining 5 AEFW present Compartment 2: No change (10 total egg clusters to date), all remaining 6 AEFW present Compartment 3: No change (10 total egg clusters to date), all 10 AEFW present Compartment 4: 6 AEFW dead (1 egg cluster to date), 1 remaining AEFW Compartment 5: All remaining 5 AEFW dead – compartment empty Notes: As of today, all of compartment 5, the smallest AEFW, are dead. They were the 1-2mm group in size. Just 1 remaining AEFW in compartment 4, the 2-4mm size group, the largest of them is the sole survivor. Multiple experiment runs will verify or disprove these results, of the smaller AEFW all dying around days 9-10. The larger AEFW continue to live, but are much much less active at night than when first removed from the Acropora. Waterchange performed at 10am and 10pm __________________ No trees were harmed in the sending of this message; however, a significant number of electrons were slightly inconvenienced.

11/15/2013, 03:22 PM	#109
dread240 Registered Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Essex, MD Posts: 979	makes sense, smaller organisms don't have the energy reserves from no food __________________ BRB, Goldfish on fire How much deeper would the ocean really be if sponges didn't exist? Current Tank Info: 75 gallon mixed reef tank

11/15/2013, 04:12 PM	#110
MitchReef President, F.R.A.G. Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Oviedo, FL....home of the Oviedo Chickens! Posts: 443	Hey TrueBlackPercula, as far as I know AEFW are Obligate Acropora feeders which means that is their only food at all. __________________ President 2014, Florida Reef Aquarium Group (FRAG) Current Tank Info: 120G In-wall with dedicated, purpose built tank room, 75G sump fuge, Apex Jr, MP40W X2, Reefbreeders LEDs X2, etc....

11/16/2013, 10:04 AM	#118
Constrictor6090 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: OverlandPark, Kansas Posts: 176	Is it easy for you to get the eggs off the acros? I've taken a toothbrush to them and they didn't come off. I eventually had to just get a razor blade. I'm positive they were AEFW eggs __________________ __________________________________________________________

11/14/2013, 02:23 PM	#101
animalkingdom Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: AL Posts: 632	man those suckers live forever without food...

11/14/2013, 02:39 PM	#102
_ToXIc_ Moved On Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 54	wow O.o subscribed.. thanks for taking the time to do this.

11/15/2013, 05:06 PM	#112
joao junior Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 251	some sps keepers have sucess only blasting acroporas,not eggs but you think i can get free of it with blasting?

11/15/2013, 05:49 PM	#114
Matman Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Montreal Posts: 25	I'm very curious about that dip that kills the embryos!!

11/16/2013, 01:56 AM	#115
Outdrsyguy1 Registered Member Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 81	This thread is awesome. It's seriously going to be googled for years to come. If you get bored, you might try and test the theory that the zeovit guys put out involving camel shrimp. Supposedly they put an acro with AEFW in a tank with like 10 camel's and they eat all the eggs and aefw before starting to snack on the coral tissue. Something about leaving it in there for 30 minutes or so, more than that and they devour the acro.

11/16/2013, 10:06 AM	#119
Constrictor6090 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: OverlandPark, Kansas Posts: 176	You should try and see what fish will eat them. Maybe purple chromis and six/four line wrasses? __________________ __________________________________________________________

11/16/2013, 02:13 PM	#121
tektite I never finish anyth Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Houston TX Posts: 1,120	If anyone has AEFW or knows someone who does, I would greatly appreciate it if you could send me a few or even just eggs. I would like to gather AEFW from as many sources as possible to compare their reaction to experiments like the starvation one I'm doing now. I've already come across one strain that was ridiculously hardy, but don't currently have any in my system. A few people have mentioned getting some that look different than the regular ones, it would be interesting to see if there may even be more than one species of AEFW plaguing hobbyists. __________________ No trees were harmed in the sending of this message; however, a significant number of electrons were slightly inconvenienced.

11/16/2013, 08:26 PM	#122
reefmutt Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mtl. Canada Posts: 7,824	very interesting thread! subscribed.. i have heard that extremely high potassium levels will kill both adults and embryos when the host acro is dipped for up to 30 minute.. usually doesn't hurt the acro but will basically sterilize the coral.. not sure if you have experimented with this.. ill be waiting on every entry on this thread.. __________________ Matt. Current Tank Info: 53x32.5x26 190g dt 60g of sumps 3 tank-100 gal frag system 6xAI prime 8xt5. 4x maxspect gyre. Skimz Dual internal sicce pump skimmer Deltec PF601s ca rx+Kalk stirrer

11/16/2013, 08:35 PM	#123
tektite I never finish anyth Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Houston TX Posts: 1,120	Interesting, had not heard that. I'll add it to my list of dips to try. __________________ No trees were harmed in the sending of this message; however, a significant number of electrons were slightly inconvenienced.

11/17/2013, 09:00 PM	#125
reef bloke Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 270	Just playing with ideas here: As AEFW ingest the coral flesh could they possibly take on some of the zooxanthellae making them partially photosynthetic and able to survive periods without a host? Perhaps the young ones didn't have chance to build up ample numbers of zoo? I know this kind of adaptation is quite common in nudi's , no?