My experience with advice from other hobbyists.

[billdogg]

2 Clown Tangs!

I really have nothing to add that has not already been said. And said. And said. Not just in this thread, but in countless others just like it.

I wish you the best of luck!

[MondoBongo]

Originally Posted by rlm2005

I wouldn't count on it, these types of threads never get updated.

A man can dream though... A man can dream...

[Azedenkae]

Originally Posted by Haleyf1024

Hello everyone! I just wanted to share my experience so far versus what I have been told. I already know I will get a lot of hate from this, but oh well. First off, clown tangs. I saw one in the LFS. It was sweeter and more personable than the koles, yellows, and most of the clownfish that they had. I had done research on them and saw that people think/have experience with them being the spawn of satan and that they need huge tanks. I saw quite a few websites that said only 75-100 gallon tanks, I have a 110. The worker mentioned that each fish is different and that this one had been in the 20/30 gallon sale tank for almost a month with zero aggression towards his shrimp and other fish tank mates. I bought him. Later that day I was buying cleaner shrimp from another hobbyist who also happened to have a purple tang for sale. I had seen the same response to these fish online- they can become spawns of satan. I bought him to. The tangs met through the bag, and were eyeballing each other. When I released the purple (clown tang was already in tank) they introduced themselves and have been inseparable ever since.
I was also warned that marine bettas are extremely difficult to get to eat and that small fish/shrimp will become dinner. I bought a 4-5" MB and he eats anything I give him, from frozen brine, frozen mysis, frozen shrimp and krill, to freeze dried krill. He also hasn't touched my sexy shrimp, hermits, or cleaner shrimp. He isn't shy and actually is almost always within sight.
And finally, the valentini puffer and the blue-green chromis. I have 3 chromis, none fight, kill each other, etc that I was warned about on RC. Many people also had bad experiences with the valentini eating CUC and picking at small organisms in Their reefs. Mine has been a model citizen and hasn't even looked at my snails and hermits (some of which are less than 1/4 and inch long.) Honestly, my female clownfish is 100 times more aggressive than the tangs and chromis and my mandarin (who is fat, eating well!!) eyeballs the crabs more than the puffer.
Have I just gotten lucky every single time, or has anyone else had similar experiences? My fish are bot aggressive toward one another at all and are all fat and happy. (Should any mysteriously become aggressive, too big, or distressed in the tank, they will be rehomed to my friends 300 gallon or to the LFS).

I partially agree with you. The fact is that this place is a wealth of knowledge, with so many good ideas and information floating about. It is amazing.

The problem is those knowledge floats amongst ten times more bad or misguided statements. And that is the issue. Go into many threads, and you'd see such varied suggestions that it is confounding how only a few amongst them could be true.

Everybody has their own experiences, everybody has their own beliefs.

The issue is a lot of what is suggested is based on anecdotal ideas, or from websites that may not know what they are talking about, or from wrong conclusions drawn from experience.

That is where the issue lies.

I am siding with you on this one, because whilst most are more so in agreement with stuff like equipments, stock is another thing altogether.

We are keeping live animals, and in the end, so little is truly understood about them. So it could be that whilst everyone believe something, it doesn't have to be true.

So many people told me that different species of Clownfish cannot mix. This is profanity removed of course, because otherwise we wouldn't get all those hybrids. -.- More importantly, I mixed Clownfish anyways, and they are buddies.

Yes, you may only have had these fish for two weeks, but that doesn't discount the fact that they are getting along.

I've also been warned that a Regal Tang is very likely to succumb to ich. And that a Citron Goby is extremely hard to ween on pellets. Neither is true in my case.

So yeah the thing is, just remember it is what it is. Advice is just advice. They come from people like you and me, who may not see the whole picture. Who probably actually don't, to be honest.

You may be able to keep all those fish together for a year, two years, or more. Then tell others that it can be done.

They try it but they fail, for whatever reason.

They tell someone else it is impossible, and don't listen to lies.

That someone else don't give a crap, and who knows, maybe knows more about the biology and ecology of fish than others, and can make it work - perhaps even better than you did.

And so on and so on.

This hobby is just full of advice from personal experience that got translated into 'this must be done', 'that can't be done', 'you will absolutely fail', 'you are definitely succeed'. Some of those will be true, some won't.

*Shrugs*

Just the way this hobby works.

[Nina51]

Originally Posted by Rybren

He set up his 110G seven days ago. That's a whole lot of experience.

wait! what???

Originally Posted by hkgar

All these posts and no one has even called out our budding reefing expert for not QTing those brand new fish

it's ok. the lfs probably qt'ed them. no worries.

Originally Posted by rlm2005

I wouldn't count on it, these types of threads never get updated.

so true!

Originally Posted by Azedenkae

They come from people like you and me,

yeah. i'm pretty sure i won't be taking advice from either one of you.

[CHSUB]

truth is a clown and purple tang may coexist in a 110 g for many years without any issues. some people may see that as successful others may not.

[Azedenkae]

Originally Posted by Nina51

yeah. i'm pretty sure i won't be taking advice from either one of you.

Actually yeah, exactly that. My advice too, comes from my own experience, beliefs and research.

Everyone here is giving advice based on their own experiences, and that may be right or wrong. Simple as that.

So don't take advice from me if you don't want to, that's cool. Though technically if you take this advice to not take advice from me then you'd be taking my advice lol. XD

[slief]

Originally Posted by Azedenkae

I partially agree with you. The fact is that this place is a wealth of knowledge, with so many good ideas and information floating about. It is amazing.

The problem is those knowledge floats amongst ten times more bad or misguided statements. And that is the issue. Go into many threads, and you'd see such varied suggestions that it is confounding how only a few amongst them could be true.

Everybody has their own experiences, everybody has their own beliefs.

The issue is a lot of what is suggested is based on anecdotal ideas, or from websites that may not know what they are talking about, or from wrong conclusions drawn from experience.

That is where the issue lies.

I am siding with you on this one, because whilst most are more so in agreement with stuff like equipments, stock is another thing altogether.

We are keeping live animals, and in the end, so little is truly understood about them. So it could be that whilst everyone believe something, it doesn't have to be true.

So many people told me that different species of Clownfish cannot mix. This is profanity removed of course, because otherwise we wouldn't get all those hybrids. -.- More importantly, I mixed Clownfish anyways, and they are buddies.

Yes, you may only have had these fish for two weeks, but that doesn't discount the fact that they are getting along.

I've also been warned that a Regal Tang is very likely to succumb to ich. And that a Citron Goby is extremely hard to ween on pellets. Neither is true in my case.

So yeah the thing is, just remember it is what it is. Advice is just advice. They come from people like you and me, who may not see the whole picture. Who probably actually don't, to be honest.

You may be able to keep all those fish together for a year, two years, or more. Then tell others that it can be done.

They try it but they fail, for whatever reason.

They tell someone else it is impossible, and don't listen to lies.

That someone else don't give a crap, and who knows, maybe knows more about the biology and ecology of fish than others, and can make it work - perhaps even better than you did.

And so on and so on.

This hobby is just full of advice from personal experience that got translated into 'this must be done', 'that can't be done', 'you will absolutely fail', 'you are definitely succeed'. Some of those will be true, some won't.

*Shrugs*

Just the way this hobby works.

Spoken like somebody with very little experience with salt water marine fish let alone the fish in question. Not to mention this tank is only weeks old.

Some of us place a higher value on the life of a fish than just an ornament in a tank. As such, we try to provide the best care for such fish by not gambling with their lives while experimenting them or keeping them in conditions that are not suitable to their size or needs. You sound like somebody who would rather experiment with the lives of your fish than follow well documented guidelines backed experienced marine keepers worldwide. SMH.

You too will learn the hard way and I'd expect your longevity in this hobby will shorter than you expect if not costlier than it should have been.

[saltyair]

Originally Posted by slief

Spoken like somebody with very little experience with salt water marine fish let alone the fish in question. Not to mention this tank is only weeks old.

Some of us place a higher value on the life of a fish than just an ornament in a tank. As such, we try to provide the best care for such fish by not gambling with their lives while experimenting them or keeping them in conditions that are not suitable to their size or needs. You sound like somebody who would rather experiment with the lives of your fish than follow well documented guidelines backed experienced marine keepers worldwide. SMH.

You too will learn the hard way and I'd expect your longevity in this hobby will shorter than you expect if not costlier than it should have been.

Well said

[DgenR8]

There will always be people that think they can make anything work, no matter what experience says. The downside is obviously animals' suffering. If something fails in 96% of the times it's tried, the 4% of times it works does not indicate success to me.

[Compliance]

All those big fish in a little tank will work just fine
Just like putting 50 prisoners in a tiny cell will work fine

Until it doesn't.

[ravenzme]

Wow, OP was completely destroyed in this thread. OP is obviously very new to this, and like anyone new, made some poor choices and no doubt overconfident about his ability to "beat the odds". To an experienced person, the mistakes appear so obvious, but again, this is a new person to the hobby. The reason I rarely post to these forums is it is like almost any other internet board - destroy the n00b rather than try to teach and move the hobby forward.

Probably not a popular sentiment, so flame away. My two cents.

[MondoBongo]

His hubris and blatant arrogant disregard for any well thought out, and in many cases canonical, advice is what the drew the ire. Not the fact that he was new.

I would be willing to bet that had he started by asking why these choices are considered poor ones, the response would have been much different.

But when you burst in with little experience and antipathy towards established principles, you risk getting checked.

[username in use]

Originally Posted by ravenzme

. The reason I rarely post to these forums is it is like almost any other internet board - destroy the n00b rather than try to teach and move the hobby forward.

That is not what happened.

[vitodog]

Originally Posted by MondoBongo

His hubris and blatant arrogant disregard for any well thought out, and in many cases canonical, advice is what the drew the ire. Not the fact that he was new.

I would be willing to bet that had he started by asking why these choices are considered poor ones, the response would have been much different.

But when you burst in with little experience and antipathy towards established principles, you risk getting checked.

In a nutshell. Well said.

[Nina51]

i know these are odd comparisons but every time i see a thread where somebody thinks it's ok to push the limits with stocking a tank, i am reminded of why i have 2 rescued great danes and 3 rescued pot bellied pigs. over and over, i have tried to pound it into people that the cute little piglet that now weighs 7# will eventually grow to 90# plus, it will outgrow the little playpen you plan to put it in and then you are left with an animal that nobody wants. and that cute little great dane puppy with the big floppy ears will be 100# before the year is up and yes, they eat a lot and knock your kids down and chew holes in your couch big enough to hide a buick in.

to me, housing fish in inappropriate tanks is no different than keeping a 90# pig in a playpen or a 100# dog in a tiny laundry room. it isn't fair to the animal whether it has bristles, fur or scales. period! these are living creatures that, when we decide to keep them, deserve every bit of respect we can give them. torture shouldn't be an option.

end of rant.

[drakedeming]

OP, when this does not work out, please continue to post and try to learn from others on the board.

That being said a mandarin in a tank less than a month(let alone a year) old is a huge mistake.

[CuzzA]

"Do you know the difference between education and experience? Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don't."

[ravenzme]

Originally Posted by Nina51

i know these are odd comparisons but every time i see a thread where somebody thinks it's ok to push the limits with stocking a tank, i am reminded of why i have 2 rescued great danes and 3 rescued pot bellied pigs. over and over, i have tried to pound it into people that the cute little piglet that now weighs 7# will eventually grow to 90# plus, it will outgrow the little playpen you plan to put it in and then you are left with an animal that nobody wants. and that cute little great dane puppy with the big floppy ears will be 100# before the year is up and yes, they eat a lot and knock your kids down and chew holes in your couch big enough to hide a buick in.

to me, housing fish in inappropriate tanks is no different than keeping a 90# pig in a playpen or a 100# dog in a tiny laundry room. it isn't fair to the animal whether it has bristles, fur or scales. period! these are living creatures that, when we decide to keep them, deserve every bit of respect we can give them. torture shouldn't be an option.

end of rant.

Not an odd comparison at all. Reading your perspective does help me understand some of the brutal replies. Your experience does highlight the fact that there are people out there who just don't get it in regards to humanly treating another creature. I guess I had hoped to see people giving the guy a chance and try to educate him so he would hopefully wise up. But as your post illustrates, sometimes that is a lost cause. Thank you for your well put perspective.

[Fade2White12]

Originally Posted by ravenzme

Wow, OP was completely destroyed in this thread. OP is obviously very new to this, and like anyone new, made some poor choices and no doubt overconfident about his ability to "beat the odds". To an experienced person, the mistakes appear so obvious, but again, this is a new person to the hobby. The reason I rarely post to these forums is it is like almost any other internet board - destroy the n00b rather than try to teach and move the hobby forward.

Probably not a popular sentiment, so flame away. My two cents.

This hobby isn't like needlepoint or building ships in bottles. Mistakes not only cost money, but they result in the loss of living beings. For most regulars here, we have a true love and admiration for these animals and care only about their wellbeing. So I think it is actually more appropriate to come down harder on people who behave in ways that put livestock at risk.

As said before, being new does not automatically result in hostility from people here - it's when people act like the OP.

[ravenzme]

Originally Posted by Fade2White12

This hobby isn't like needlepoint or building ships in bottles. Mistakes not only cost money, but they result in the loss of living beings. For most regulars here, we have a true love and admiration for these animals and care only about their wellbeing. So I think it is actually more appropriate to come down harder on people who behave in ways that put livestock at risk.

As said before, being new does not automatically result in hostility from people here - it's when people act like the OP.

I think you are missing my point. You MAY have the ability to persuade the OP to change course and understand the danger to the animals involved...or, tear them to pieces and they walk away from the forums. Honestly, I would prefer OP stay on the forums, learn from experience of others. Its hard to trust folks when they are publicly ripping you a part, even if they have a very good reason for doing so. It may feel good tearing into someone doing something terrible, but it would be more effective to educate them into stopping. Again, just my opinion.

[Fade2White12]

Originally Posted by ravenzme

I think you are missing my point. You MAY have the ability to persuade the OP to change course and understand the danger to the animals involved...or, tear them to pieces and they walk away from the forums. Honestly, I would prefer OP stay on the forums, learn from experience of others. Its hard to trust folks when they are publicly ripping you a part, even if they have a very good reason for doing so. It may feel good tearing into someone doing something terrible, but it would be more effective to educate them into stopping. Again, just my opinion.

I'm not missing the point at all.

The OP stated that they've done significant research on the fish, their profile states that they do own (or have owned) numerous fresh and saltwater tanks, and if not through their own experiences, but through the collective knowledge and experience of members at RC, they've had access to this board for the last two months since joining. Yet, in the face of all this, they continue to defy all advice and evidence that what they are doing is just wrong.

In this instance, it appears obvious that simple access to education has not been successful in getting the OP to reform. What's next other than "tough love?" Discipline can be just as effective, if not more, than your approach. And based on what we've seen here, it's the appropriate tactic for this situation.

[Wazzel]

Clowns and purple tangs have a history of being aggressive. Their natural demeanor is just that way. I kept a purple and it did indeed get mean after a while in my old 160, even tho it started of quite peaceful. Clown tangs get big. Personally I would not keep one in a 110. I doubt your long term experience with these fish will be much different that people that have kept them in the past.

[KafudaFish]

Originally Posted by CuzzA

"Do you know the difference between education and experience? Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don't."

True but if it is a negative experience with poor results what value is there in attempting to repeat the process in order to gain that experience? How many times do you have to touch a hot stove and get a burn before you conclude that it is a bad idea?

The two should be combined to increase the chances of long-term success in the terms of years not days or weeks.

The OP has neither but others do and have expressed their opinions through their experiences and education.

Sounds like Einstein's quote regarding insanity doesn't it?

[kruse47]

I'm not going to take sides here but rather add a point that i feel needs to be brought up. On the subject of Tangs, we should be asking yourselves, is there really any tank that is suitable for these fish, or any fish for that matter. I mean we are taking fish out of a "open system" ocean that is Billions of gallons and putting them into "closed systems" that have a limit. Really zoos are the only places that most of these fish belong because they are the only places that can come close to real ocean conditions. Personally i think there is a limit on how small a tank can be before its too small for tangs, but for the most part if the fish is healthy and is eating well who cares. And at the end of the day its your tank you do with it as you will. we are all adults and this guy obviously has his mind set and that's his prerogative. I would say that this whole conversation could have been handle with a little more tact and constructiveness. But Tang Police will be Tang Police.

[tkeracer619]

It's a public forum for discussion. When you come on here and make posts like this you are going to **** people off. Surprised it lasted this long.