Seeking Approval of Stocking List

[Fish Everywhere]

Hey everyone. So recently I finalized my new tank's size after originally considering a 65, then a 70 long custom, then a 75, then a 90, then a 5 foot 112, until finally I have decided on a 120 gallon standard 48x24x24. I feel this is a great ratio of length to width to height, while giving a good amount of water volume and depth for aquascaping. With a tank this size, a larger number of a fish is a nice bonus too

Some background:

- Display: 120 gallons, Sump: 30 gallons, Total volume: 150 gallons
- Super Reef Octopus 2000 INT skimmer / Vertex Omega 150
- 15-20% bi-weekly water changes
- 1-2 inch sandbed with 60-70 pounds of porous, dry pukani rock
- Carbon and GFO

Here is the stocking list.

- 2 Perc Clowns
- 1 Flame Angel
- 1 Leopard Wrasse
- 5 Carberryi Anthias
- 1 Blue Throat Trigger

I plan to make this an SPS dominant but slightly mixed reef. I am willing to take a risk with the flame angel and know about Leopard Wrasses being picky. As for the trigger, I know a 4 foot tank is pushing it, but after reading quite a bit about them, it seems that triggers from the genus Xanthichthys grow really slow compared to other genera and are very reef safe and quite well tempered.

My concern is not any of that, but is mainly the bioload. This bioload seems about right with the filtration I said earlier, doesn't it? Thanks guys

[BigBlueTang]

Sounds fine to me...

Maybe only three anthias


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Fissues]

no problem with that list

[Fish Everywhere]

Originally Posted by BigBlueTang

Sounds fine to me...

Maybe only three anthias


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Alright, good to know. I was thinking that if I could keep 3 anthias, 5 shouldn't be too much more of a bioload, since the main reason anthias add a heavy bioload is because of the number of feedings (2-3, maybe 4). Regardless of if you had 3 or 5, you will still need to feed a ton anyway. Thoughts?

Originally Posted by Fissues

no problem with that list

Alright, that's nice to hear.

Anyone else?

[BigBlueTang]

Perhaps. Two more fish still add bio load though. I would just get three and then add some more variety, maybe another fairy wrasse?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[polaravic]

I guess I will post the first negative comment: When the Blue Throat Trigger grows to 9 inches, it may be very difficult to rehome. Two clowns that may bond to a mated pair will defend approx 50 gallons of tank space and be fairly aggressive.

polaravic

[ThRoewer]

I have and have had lots of percula pairs, many of them spawning, and none of them ever claimed more space than their anemone or flowerpot.
So the statement that they will claim 50 gallon doesn't hold much water. Percula are also not overly aggressive (except against other clownfish).

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[BigBlueTang]

Originally Posted by polaravic

I guess I will post the first negative comment: When the Blue Throat Trigger grows to 9 inches, it may be very difficult to rehome. Two clowns that may bond to a mated pair will defend approx 50 gallons of tank space and be fairly aggressive.

polaravic

Oh I totally agree about the bluethroat.

Problem is, he won't grow that big. If you get one of the 3-4" ones that you see all the time, he'll get max 7"... Stunted sure, but..

[Fish Everywhere]

Well, thanks all. Bigblue, I will think about the anthias and will learn more about how much bioload they add. If need be, 3 wouldn't be too bad either

Originally Posted by polaravic

I guess I will post the first negative comment: When the Blue Throat Trigger grows to 9 inches, it may be very difficult to rehome. Two clowns that may bond to a mated pair will defend approx 50 gallons of tank space and be fairly aggressive.

polaravic

Hi polaravic, while I appreciate your input, I have to ask; have you ever kept either of those fish before? Please don't take this the wrong way, I literally mean what I said, not being condescending or anything. I just mean that I've seen quite a few blue throats around, and even a pair in a 400 gallon mixed display that my LFS has had setup for about 6 years. Despite all this, I've never seen a blue throat larger than 6-7.5 inches in captivity. In the wild, sure, they might grow massive, all med-large fish do. As for the clowns, I've read that in quite a few places before but have owned 4 different pairs at different times before of percula, skunk, and occ, and they never seemed overly aggressive... maybe I got lucky?

[BigBlueTang]

Good luck mate!!!

You seem like a nice guy, and you take advice well, so i'll give you this, QT like a devil. Nothing touches the display without a qt.... It's a headache and you'll probably lose fish.. But in the end you'll save thousands, from not adding that fish that had brook...

[ThRoewer]

Clownfish are only aggressive against other clownfish (outside their group) and those fish they perceive as a threat to their anemone or eggs. Other fish are usually ignored unless they get to close or start provoking them.
Where the limits are differs from species to species and varies also a bit with the individuals. Interestingly enough i found clarkii (the ones I had) to be no more aggressive than your average ocellaris.
The nastiest clownfish I ever had were polymnus followed by sebae.
Premnas l actually found to be quite ductile and fearful. It may have been the setting I had them, but other clownfish i had in similar settings were not as shy and fearful.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[Fish Everywhere]

Originally Posted by BigBlueTang

Good luck mate!!!

You seem like a nice guy, and you take advice well, so i'll give you this, QT like a devil. Nothing touches the display without a qt.... It's a headache and you'll probably lose fish.. But in the end you'll save thousands, from not adding that fish that had brook...

Of course, quarantining is a must! I've had ich in an old 30 gallon of mine from a sick angel I took in from someone, luckily it didn't spread. I was new and didn't know about QT tanks then lol...

On a side note, other than getting a new tank (shouldn't be too hard with dollar per gallon), do you think a 20 long that has never had copper in it would be fine for a QT? I think it would be fine for everything besides the anthias, 3 maybe but 5 in a 20 gallon QT may be pushing the bioload, even if I added stability and ammolock for 2 weeks I don't think it could handle it. Thoughts?

Originally Posted by ThRoewer

Clownfish are only aggressive against other clownfish (outside their group) and those fish they perceive as a threat to their anemone or eggs. Other fish are usually ignored unless they get to close or start provoking them.
Where the limits are differs from species to species and varies also a bit with the individuals. Interestingly enough i found clarkii (the ones I had) to be no more aggressive than your average ocellaris.
The nastiest clownfish I ever had were polymnus followed by sebae.
Premnas l actually found to be quite ductile and fearful. It may have been the setting I had them, but other clownfish i had in similar settings were not as shy and fearful.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

^ My thoughts exactly.

[ThRoewer]

I found 10 gallon tanks to be ideal - at least for most of the fish I have. Even a 4in regal on its own should be fine in it for TTM or a 2 week hyposalinity treatment (2 weeks will do when doing 2 tank tranfers/sterilizations).
Bio load can be handled by water changes. Aggression may be a bigger issue when quarantining several fish at once. Dividing the tank with eggcrate is a good solution for larger fish but doesn't work well for small fish that can slip through. For those tank dividers may be the only option, though the ones I could find don't let enough water through to guarantee a sufficient exchange.

[Fish Everywhere]

So, a mini revamp of the stocking list; would this work? After reading a bit more and asking around about anthias it seems you were right, Bluetang. They add a massive bioload because of their specialized feeding requirements and metabolism. I have also pretty much decided on a Skimz sm163 skimmer, as most of the problems have been fixed over time and it seems like a great skimmer. Without further ado, this is the new list:

- 2 Percula Clownfish (Male / Female)
- 1 Red Headed Solon Fairy Wrasse
- 2 Mccoskers Flasher Wrasse (Male / Female)
- 1 Flame Angelfish
- 2 Leopard Wrasse (male / Female)
- 1 Purple Tang

Removed:

- Trigger (I don't feel that its right to remove it eventually, since it would get to about 7-7.5 inches as opposed to the 5-6 inches that most zebrasoma tangs get to in captivity)

- Anthias (Bioload. Big bioload. And multiple feeding annoyances)

Is this a good list? Again, tank size is a 120 (4x2x2)

[Deinonych]

The McCosker's pair will likely end up as two males long term, resulting in aggression and potentially the death of one of them. Better to add males of different Paracheilinus spp. The solon wrasse is very aggressive and may not tolerate other wrasses.

[scooter31707]

I have the same tank. I tried the Bluethroat and the Purple Tang in my tank and had to rehome them because of aggression from the PT and my BT became destructive. I just think a 4ft tank is not big enough for these 2 fish. It may work out better for you.

[GSM23]

Looks fine to me.

[GSM23]

The McCosker's pair will likely end up as two males long term, resulting in aggression and potentially the death of one of them. Better to add males of different Paracheilinus spp. The solon wrasse is very aggressive and may not tolerate other wrasses.

I currently have a solar wrasse in my tank along with 5 other fairy wrasses, including a small tricolor, and they never fight. Most Fairy wrasses are quite peaceful, there is no particular species that is agressive. Only some bad individuals. I have about 2 dozen fairy weasses over the years, and I have only had one bad apple, a blue sided that picked on my tricolor.

[Fish Everywhere]

Originally Posted by scooter31707

I have the same tank. I tried the Bluethroat and the Purple Tang in my tank and had to rehome them because of aggression from the PT and my BT became destructive. I just think a 4ft tank is not big enough for these 2 fish. It may work out better for you.

Hmm... that's strange, did you have them both at the same time? If not, its odd since many people keep one of the two fish for years, and even at full size, many rehome because they get too big, not because of the behavior you described. Any other large fish with them?

Originally Posted by Deinonych

The McCosker's pair will likely end up as two males long term, resulting in aggression and potentially the death of one of them. Better to add males of different Paracheilinus spp. The solon wrasse is very aggressive and may not tolerate other wrasses.

Really? That's a shame. Anyone else?

[Deinonych]

If you are looking for information on other wrasses to add, you might peruse this post by Evolved: http://www.3reef.com/threads/all-abo...rasses.122261/

[Fish Everywhere]

Originally Posted by Deinonych

If you are looking for information on other wrasses to add, you might peruse this post by Evolved: http://www.3reef.com/threads/all-abo...rasses.122261/

Thanks, will check it out.

[scooter31707]

Like I said it might work better for different people, but in my ""4ft tank"" it did not. I just honestly think a PT and BT should be in a 5ft or bigger. Just my 2 cents.

[Shawn O]

From what little I know of tangs, I think a Kole tang may be a better option for a 4' tank.

Considered a blenny or shrimp/goby pair?

[lifeoffaith]

Originally Posted by ThRoewer

Clownfish are only aggressive against other clownfish (outside their group) and those fish they perceive as a threat to their anemone or eggs. Other fish are usually ignored unless they get to close or start provoking them.
Where the limits are differs from species to species and varies also a bit with the individuals. Interestingly enough i found clarkii (the ones I had) to be no more aggressive than your average ocellaris.
The nastiest clownfish I ever had were polymnus followed by sebae.
Premnas l actually found to be quite ductile and fearful. It may have been the setting I had them, but other clownfish i had in similar settings were not as shy and fearful.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

I agree completely. I had a 46 gallon that a pair had started prepping for laying eggs, and these were the black and whites that I've heard are a bit more aggressive. They only really cared about the 10 inch radius around their "spot." They gave my Midas Blenny h*** every time he came close, but he was just curious. Most of the other fish they could care less about...even sometimes when they were closer than the Midas Blenny would come, he just was often circling their space.

[eatbreakfast]

Just do another species of flasher along with the mckosker instead of doing 2 mckosker.

I've never had much of a problem with solorensis being too aggressive.

Going back to the original list, I don't find that anthias add too much bioload. While true that they require more frequent feedings, just feed less food per feeding. So it's the same quantity of food throughout theday, just over more feedings. Doing this will result in less uneaten food polluting the tank.